mwtrull

I have been following this discussion with a bit more than just casual interest due to my fondness for single stick radios. Not to mention the appeal of "the journey" when undertaking a project such as this.

And, having read the comments in this thread and others from the archives and having reviewed Gordon Anderson's and Marv Jensen's websites, I feel I have a solid understanding of how this is done. But I am curious, were I to build a transmitter using the Microstar 2000 encoder board, how would its programmability compare to Futaba's 9C or the new Royal EVO?

I realize one takes on a project like this for the experience and the flexibility that comes from building it yourself, but I am still curious as to how the resulting system would compare to the latest generation of mainstream systems designed for serious sport flyers.

Sincerely,

Michael

jskrebs

MWTRULL,

Download the programming manual from Gordon's site. It may shed some light on the programming ability of the Microstar.

Personally servo setup and basic mixing is all I want or need for the time being. My motivation is to get a high quality american made, american supported RC system and I feel the Proline, Micorstar combination fits the bill.

Even if the newer Asian radios are a bit ahead of the Microstar, think of the R&D dollars behind them and compare that to Gordon and his army of one. Pretty Impressive!

Jeff

jskrebs

http://www.hpphoto.com/servlet/LinkP...ea391a&size=lg

Surface mount components installed. Took about an hour.

Notice that you can do this with a soldering Iron from Radio Shack (20 watt setting!). Tweezers are critical for positioning and holding the small componets for soldering. Flux paste is also critical for this operation, I doubt you can do it without it. Read Gordons instructions for details.

Check out my impressive PC board fixture. $15 at the local hardware store.

Halogen lighting would be nice, I was using incandecent and had some visibility issues.

The through hole stuff should go faster.

Look at the black spec next to the tweezers it is a surface mount resistor.

jimcork1

My Feedback: (4)

I have been using the Metal H. bat's in my MP8 for about 3 years. I bought 2 4.8v packs 1200 MA (at that time now bigger) and wired them in series. I use the ACE (you would know it) Super Digipulse to charge at 120 MA. I use a full charge everytime. I fly about 1 hr each time out,, sometimes I fly 2 transmitters.. I watch the voltage drop but it has never gotten below 9.7 V alarm at 9.6. This was at 1 hr on time. But don't forget these bat's are now about 3 years old. I have cycled them and after 3 years they have dropped to about 900 MA and I suppose I should change them out but I flew them today. The 900 remaining is still more than the 800 that came in the radio. Interesting observation on MH bats. What I have seen is that as they get older they will still take a charge, but the capacity drops off slowly over time. I have 4 planes w/1400 MH in them and they also are seeing the same capacity over time drop. I will replace the pack at 80% of new capacity. I do cycle them and they will hold the load over the remaining capacity..


Really would like the Microstar,, but Just gotta keep moving on this C130.. 11+' wings 4 saito .30's. Wing is now assembled and ready to add nacell's... over and out.... vettdvr

jskrebs

Got the encoder all assembled, will post pictures as soon as I can figure out closeups with my digicam.
I fit new nicads into the Proline battery box, but had to modify the back to clear the Crystal and allow the encoder to fit in as close as possible. I also had to turn the pots 90 degrees for rudder and aleron to add addditonal clearance. It's still close but I will get it in there.

Now I have to make up the internal wiring kit,

Jeff

jskrebs

OK, so you push the close up button! Looks like a flower?

Photo of finished encoder board less buzzer which may have to be mounted remotly:

http://www.hpphoto.com/servlet/LinkP...5c6e0c&size=lg

Picture of encoder backside, note crystal:

http://www.hpphoto.com/servlet/LinkP...da64e4&size=lg

Picture of stripped Proline TX case. I installed new nicad's in the Proline battery box and modified it to clear the Encoder crystal. Most likley the antenna will no longer be retractable inside the case, I may switch to an unscrewable antenna.

http://www.hpphoto.com/servlet/LinkP...9261c7&size=lg

Finally a shot of the encoder sitting in the TX case, it's tight but I will get it in and looking clean. I have to replace the Pots on the gimbles with those of lesser diameter, yes it's that tight!. I work for Allen-Bradley so removing those old AB pots hurts a lot!

http://www.hpphoto.com/servlet/LinkP...bb61a4&size=lg

I am laying out all the switch and LCD locations currently and plan to fir all of the microstar features into my project, gonna get even tighter!

Back to the real world tomorrow, progress may slow a bit!

Forgues Research

My Feedback: (7)

Looking good, for the antena, how about the Smiley Rubber Duckey?

jskrebs

Slow day, made some additional progress:

Cut the input connectors from the header material and filed the edges down with my gerber multitool mounted in my precision PC board assembly jig:

http://www.hpphoto.com/servlet/LinkP...c5679d&size=lg

http://www.hpphoto.com/servlet/LinkP...9b3ebc&size=lg


Next I decided to dry fit the LCD display and found that it is a little wide to fit into the Proline case. Think I can sand the board down 1/32 to get it to fit, Bezel looks good!

http://www.hpphoto.com/servlet/LinkP...072da7&size=lg

Here is the encoder sitting in the case, note that I will have to loose the battery box and reduce the size of the gimble pots to get it all to fit nicely.

http://www.hpphoto.com/servlet/LinkP...0a26c0&size=lg

http://www.hpphoto.com/servlet/LinkP...0f6ce8&size=lg

Jeff

jskrebs

Even Slower day,

Completed all the pigtails for the pots and switches, and fabricated the accessory connector then mounted the accesory and power/comms connector.

http://www.hpphoto.com/servlet/LinkP...f91a13&size=lg

Started to make the LCD cable, but I think I can install a header on both ends, checking with Marv currently

http://www.hpphoto.com/servlet/LinkP...f538da&size=lg

Will get some more done this weekend after blowing snow for a few hours.

cassidy

My Feedback: (5)

I HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR A COMPETITION DUAL STICK PROLINE RADIO. I WENT TO EBAY AND UNDER RADIO CONTROL I TYPED IN PROLINE.
SOMEONE IN LAS VEGAS HAS ABOUT SIX SINGLE STICK PROLINE (SOME COMPETITION SETS) OUT THERE FOR SALE.

THOUGHT I WOULD LET YOU KNOW.

jskrebs

Other than several stupid human tricks the encoder powered right up!

http://www.hpphoto.com/servlet/LinkP...3accce&size=lg

The PIPE

Dear Jeff:

The PIPE Here, after another hard TWO JOB working week is concluding...at long last the first ADVANCED payment on my car loan can go toward paying off my car, as that first advanced payment gets made this Saturday! If all goes well, that second janitorial job, my regular CAD daytime job, and my Federal tax refund should all "come together" and have my sweet little "rolling hangar", my used 1995 Escort station wagon (with a manual tranny on it-a real RARITY for that style of car) all paid off in about six or seven weeks.

Great to hear you got your MicroStar breathing at last!

NOW, I've got a small TIP for you, in regards to the "Calibrate Joy Sticks" setup step in getting your MicroStar ready to fly planes!

If you check page 11 of the 40 page Adobe Acrobat format programming manual that Gordon has at his website for "Programming a MicroStar 2000", the one that's downloadable (a 5 megabyte download-a CABLE modem helps out nicely with this) at http://mstar2k.com/programming.pdf , that page oft he programming manual shows you the "Calibrate Joy Sticks" routine!

When I first tried to do the "saving" routine, with pushes of RIGHT aileron input on the joystick of my "knobby" single stick MicroStar, when it went from "Cal Joy Sticks/Throttle Trim" to the "Cal Joy Sticks/Exit" display, and I pressed the OPTION button on my Tx to save the settings at the "Save Changes/Accept? Yes-No" display, I found out it would NOT save them-it just "locked up" at the "Save Changes" display, and I had to turn it off to try again!

A quick phone call to Gordon suggested an answer...
"why not try a LEFT aileron stick push, to go from "Cal Joy Sticks/Aileron" directly to "Cal Joy Sticks/EXIT" instead! THAT "different" way was then tried, sort of "against" the flow of all the arrows showing the flow of the programming sequence on page 11 of the manual, and voilà-the new settings "took hold". and everything starting working out much better! ANOTHER hint...this "left aileron stick push" ALSO works on the Servo Setup routine-it's actually THERE that I found it was imperative to use it-but it may ALSO be useful in a number of the setup routines the MicroStar has in its programming procedures!

As I've got a single stick MicroStar, built into an older Ace RC MicroPro single stick case, setting up the RUDDER KNOB is a bit tricky, as I've been finding out! The "pot-in-knob" style of rudder knob that Ace used in their MicroPros is a Dunham made unit, and that baby has a MASSIVE 120º-plus mechanical rotation angle from left stop to right stop, and that's something like TWICE the angle the Ace RC metal gimbal joystick allows for on aileron and elevator! As a result, I found out that one end of the rudder travel was making the adjustment voltage go WAY down to nearly zero at one end of the rudder knob's rotation, and that "nearly-zero" voltage seemed to be causing ALL sorts of non-linearity problems when the radio was fully fired up!

To make the rudder pot's setup in that "BIG-angle-of-rotation" Dunham knob a bit "tamer" like the aileron and elevator pots have on my "knobby" MicroStar, I'm adding a pair of fixed "padding" resistors onto the back of the rudder pot's 5k-ohm element. These two resistors are of differing values-a 1 k-ohm on the negative side, and a 3.9k-ohm on the positive side...and are both epoxied onto the back of the rudder pot element, a 5k-ohm unit. These resistors are 1/8th watt carbon film resistors, and are SO small that fitting them in the rudder knob should be NO trouble at all. Each of these resistors has one end connected to a pot element "end" terminal, with the other end of the resistor being used to hook either the red (for the 3.9k-ohm resistor) and the black (for the 1k-ohm) resistor wires in the rudder control pot cable-the "third" wire (a yellow one in my Tx) still goes to the wiper contact as before.

Those resistors don't look like I'll get them in the mail until early next week, so it's another five days worth of a hard TWO JOB working week to go before the 3 day MLK holiday weekend gets here, to earn money to keep my advanced payoff schedule for my car going (and that means NO WRAMS SHOW visit in 2003 for yours truly-just not enough money to go for even a ONE day visit this time around) and I can get to epoxying the resistors in place on the back of that rudder pot element-at least the resistors ARE on the way!

Keep pluggin' away on your MicroStar, Jeff, and remember my "Cal Joy Sticks" routine tip of LEFT aileron pushing to get the joystick settings to "take", if you find that right aileron stick pushes aren't working for you!

Wishing you more good luck,
and Yours Sincerely,

The PIPE!

jskrebs

Mounted the LCD and all of the swiotches. THis TX has all of the possible connections to the Microstar Encoder on board!

jskrebs

Now to mount the encoder, wire all this stuff, and build the M*2K RF deck!

jskrebs

Got the encoder mounted the new gimble pots installed, and the encoder wired up to all the pots and switches. Also wired up the batteries and power supply harness.

At this point I would recommend a couple of changes were you to install a microstar in this transmitter. It's a very tight fit, and I still need to get the RF deck in there.

Started to step throught he software to set up the encoder, this is pretty dammed simple and intuitive. I am not sure how the Asian radios set up servos, but you got to check this thing out!

Marv and Gordon have been very responsive andhelpful so far.

The PIPE

Dear Jeff:

The PIPE here again-and I just added a bit of BOLD TEXT in my most recent previous post in this thread-that "left aileron push" hint ALSO works for the Servo Setup routine, should you hit a "roadblock" in programming the MicroStar in THAT particular part of its setup procedure!

Looks like you're almost ready to join John Eyer in the skies with YOUR MicroStar!

Yours Sincerely,

The PIPE!

QUICK UPDATE on my "knobby" MicroStar, dated Jan 19, 2003, at 8:50 am...

The rudder knob is all re-assembled on my first of a pair of "knobby" MicroStars, being created from a pair of Ace RC MicroPro single stick radios...and after placing the rudder knob back on the end of a NEW stainless steel joystick shaft tube, I found that new JOYSTICK SPRINGS will be needed on the Ace RC metal gimbal joystick assembly that's in the first of these two radios...thankfully, some Ace Hardware #16 extension springs can be used to make these up, as one of these springs should provide enough "springy stuff" within their length to make a PAIR of joystick gimbal springs, one each for aileron and elevator! A bit of Dremel work with an emery cutting wheel, some bending of end loops in each spring to hook them onto the gimbal scissors, and voilà-a perfect set of joystick springs for the repaired metal gimbal assembly on my new MicroStar "knobby" radio!

jskrebs

I started to build the Microstar encoder controlled RF deck.

Talk about small parts!!!

Getting the hang of this SMD stuff though.

jskrebs

Please note that there are no fancy tools required to build a Microstar. My PC board holder is a $15 dollar vice and my magnifying glass is from the local dollar store, My soldering station is from radio shack (the dual temp model).

jskrebs

Now onto Gordon for RF testing and tuning!

jskrebs

RF Deck

thestik

My Feedback: (8)

It's great to see the enthusiam for the Microstar. I had 2 Micropros converted to Microstars last year by Marv Jenson. He does a superb job for those who don't have the electronic skills to build one themselves. Each one was checked out by Gordon and are nice pieces of equipment to work with.

I began RC back in the 70's with Proline, progressed to Micropros, and now to the Microstars. It's nice to have qualilty products in RC, that are made in the USA.

I note many have commented on single stick vs dual stick. I learned on a Proline single stick, but once I tried a dual stick with a tray, I was hooked. The control precision was much better for me by resting my hands on the support pads and controlling the sticks with my fingers. So, whatever floats your boat, everyone has their favorite.

Tom Robbins :

jskrebs

Building the thing is a hobby onto itself!

Try to buy an old ProLine transmitter these days! Or any old quality American Transmitter for that matter. I think Marv and Gordon are going to be very busy.

I would love to find a custom competition dual stick, even if it is a bit ugly.

Gordon still has mine, can't wait to get it back.

Found a nice American Slow Flyer at Mountain Models, and Berg Reciever. Now we need NA or EU micro flight packs!

The PIPE

Dear "TheStik":

The PIPE here, yet again...and for those of us who CAN easily manage to have the throttle "mechanically involved" with ONE of the aerodynamic functions, a dual stick Tx in a TRAY seems to be just about the best answer yet concieved for "holding" a conventional Tx...NO relying on the hands to BOTH move the sticks AND holding the Tx in front of oneself.... !!!

For at least a few of us who STILL prefer the "knobby boxes" like myself, though, we are MUCH more comfortable with the throttle control being ON ITS OWN, and NOT mechanically "involved" with ANY of the aerodynamic functions on the transmitter...and for ANY type of flying where one needs to use aileron and RUDDER together in a consistent manner, AND manage the throttle continuously in flight at the same time, the single stick "knobby" transmitter user interface sure seems to STILL offer a big advantage to those of us who DO need that sort of Tx control
layout!

One explanation I usually give to dual stick Tx fans, about why I use a "knobby" transmitter instead, is to think about flying a full sized plane that had NO separate throttle lever....the throttle was instead connected through the RUDDER pedals INSTEAD, and THAT makes the rudder pedals-like the left stick on a (I think) Mode II dual stick Tx-a "mechanically involved" dual function control mechanism, that would control BOTH the rudder (through differential movement) AND the throttle (by pressing BOTH pedals simultaneously)...for most of us THAT control behavior would get VERY confusing, VERY quickly, so in full scale aircraft, the rudder and throttle ARE on mechanically separate control setups...and those of us who prefer "knobby" flying might very well feel the exact SAME way about having the throttle "mechanically involved" with ANY aerodynamic function, on our transmitters! It's about the best analogy I can give someone who might have trouble understanding WHY someone else prefers flying with a "knobby" Tx, rather than a dual stick unit.

For those who manage quite nicely with dual stick TX-es, I'm continually impressed about how well THEY fly...it sure WORKS for a lot of us out there, but NOT for me...as for yours truly, if I was NEVER permitted to fly with ANYTHING but dual stick Tx-es, I'd have to GIVE UP RC flying and try flying Control Line autogyros instead-now THAT'S an interesting thought-but single stick transmitters DO exist, and I'll keep RIGHT ON using them...and NO ONE will ever tell me I have no choice but to do it any other way...it IS a free nation we live in, in the USA!

Yours Sincerely,

The PIPE!

jskrebs

My transmitter is still @ Gordons.

Can't wait to get it back.

Ordered a Mountain models DuskStick and Berg reciever to go with My non Pacific Rim free model, but where can I get small NA made servos??

iflyj3

My Feedback: (7)

Attention ACE MicroPro 8000 and GAA's MicroStar 2000 users.

A YAHOO users group has been started for the above RC systems. Membership is
open to anyone with an interest. There are already several valuable members on
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Dan Thompson (AMA 32873, EAA 60974, WB4GUK, GROL)