The Raven

A very valid point. Despite my whinging Hitec do make a good radio and I'm certain other brands have their own problems.

aussiesteve

Hey X-Jet
We must be soul brothers. (And we all know that an Aussie should never say that to a Kiwi)
You've pretty much summed up my exact thoughts. There are a bunch of limitations with the two (Optic and Eclipse) that I also suffered - the same limitations that you refer to.

Between myself and my two boys, we have around 50 models always ready to fly, We would have to think about what we were taking out each week, Programme the radios to suit then recharge them after the programming time ran the battery down. I made the decision to change based on the lack of case reliabilty as well as the other limitations you mentioned.
I got stuck with some of those "We won't recall them but we know there is a fault" receivers too - they also were denied a warranty claim.

I bought my PCM9X some time ago because I needed the extra functions for a 100cc gasser. I was so impressed with it that when I decided to make the change of brands, I purchased another one (By then the PCM10X was available).

Because I purchased my receivers in Bulk when I switched to JR PCM's, I got an excellent price. (We also have a small web based business selling Odds and Sods from here for this sport). The total changeover has cost me around A$4500 - less than the cost of one good plane (Each of My 150cc Yak, F3a Planes and Large Helicopters has cost way more than that). I now feel comfortable with the Electronics that I am using.

Just a few thou of additional material to spread the loads, or a different material for the cases would save this entire discussion.

Maybe I'm just too fussy when it comes to putting People, Thousands of dollars and a lot of manhours at risk with a radio that I do not feel happy with.

FWIW - I almost purchased a certain Top End Futaba until I heard that there were programming issues with those too.

**Edited for Spelling mistakes**

MikeMayberry

My Feedback: (1)

Note that the Eclipse was designed over 8 years ago and while it and the Optic both have limitations they are still among the leaders in features per dollar in their catagories. The same complaints could be made for many radios in this price range!

Mike.

XJet

You're not wrong Mike -- I know that Futaba has had their share of botch-ups. However, my Futaba-flying friends don't seem to have nearly as many "lemons" sitting under their building-board as I do :-(

Your comments also highlight the fact that Hitec seems to be really dragging the chain when it comes to keeping up with its competitors.

Its "flagship" radio is 8-years old and showing lots of wrinkles, its *newest* radio is a downgraded Optic 6 and there's absolutely no sign (thread closed even) of anything on 2.4GHz.

Not much of a commitment to the market or those people who are trying to stay loyal to the Hitec brand.

Or perhaps Hitec are doing the *sensible* thing and focusing on their core-strength: great value servos.

At this rate, unless it's something *very* special (and has a really strong handle), the long-promised Corona 9 will be outdated and superceded by the competition before it even hits the dealers' shelves.

But the real core of the dissatisfaction is the way that Hitec repeatedly dismisses customer concerns and treats almost every complaint regarding well documented weaknesses (such as the O6 handle) with shock and dismay. Mike-- there *IS* a problem! It is a *DESIGN* problem. That Hitec chooses to ignore it totally destroys much of the hard work they've done by providing otherwise superb customer service.

If I buy something that is designed wrong, I expect it to be put right at the manufacturer's expense -- and not to have to kludge up an ugly repair myself.

Questions:

Why didn't Hitec recall all those potentially dangerous O6/Spectra units that were glitching so badly rather than leaving them on dealers' shelves?

Can you provide a guarantee that anyone who buys an O6/Spectra combo today won't end up with old stock that could still exhibit this fault and cause the loss of a model and/or possibly injure/kill someone?

I think most people would agree that these are *very* important questions that cut to the heart of Hitec's attitude to customer satisfaction and public safety.

MikeMayberry

My Feedback: (1)

X- You've made your feelings clear in many posts in these forums and you do seem to take every opportunity to climb up on the soapbox to voice them over and over again when ever possible. That is your perogotive... it's an open forum. However, I personally don't see why you feel the need to drag us over the coals at every opportunity?!?!?

Hitec has had some pitfalls and have done our best to handle them the best way we could... it you disagree with them, sorry!

I know you would love to bring all these issues you have with Hitec to the forefront again, but I am not going to debate them with you.

Mike.

The Raven

With regards the problems with the Spectra module on the Optic 6... I have no experience with the Optic 6 but if the problem was as bad as some people believe (and I'm not doubting their sincerity) wouldn't/shouldn't the local authorities (eg. AMA) have done something?

For example: if such a problem were occuring in my part of the world the national and state bodies could simply deem the offending radio as no longer certified for use by affiliated clubs/members for safety reasons. It would be a drastic move but if there are safety issues they'd be well within their rights to act to protect their members and the public.

Yes, I heard of the Optic/Spectra issues and was surprised at Hitecs response. However, given their potential liability you would imagine they would have acted. The fact they didn't suggests a number of possibilities, mostly that Hitec did not believe the issues to be significant.

aussiesteve

One of the reasons that this thread was commenced was to do with the attitude of a (HiTec associated) moderator locking out and/or filtering other threads on the design issues experienced.

This is an open forum, It is intended as a method of communicating amongst the RC World. It should remain as such and threads should not be filtered to protect the various companies (Obviously they should be filtered for Slanderous, Hate related etc threads). Please correct me If I am wrong on this point.

There IS a design problem, It could have been easily fixed at the same time as the molds were modified for the module mounting issue and a recall of stock on retail shelves is not difficult. If it is too difficult to recall the items already sold, Warranty claims should be accepted and notices should be posted somewhere for ALL the public to see. It is not difficult.
My personal gripe is that there IS either a design or a material selection flaw (FWIW - I am a PhD in Engineering and my specialty is designing and use of plastics) but when warranty is requested, it is greeted with an emphatic "NO - there is no problem".

Your statement that the Eclipse has been around for more than 8 years tells me that there has been time to instigate the modification (that many people end up performing on these radios) at manufacture. (The Modification being to install some load spreading devices at the handle attachment point). Unfortunately when the modification is perfomed by anyone other than an approved repairer this gives more reason for the company to refuse any warranty claims. Catch 22 is that the approved repairers will only replace the case (at the customers cost) and not install any modification.

There is no question that the features per dollar are excellent for these units. It is why I originally purchased the units.

Think of this scenario
An experienced flier takes his 40 sized plane to the field.
He pick up his Radio, the handle breaks and the radio falls to the ground.
To be safe he decides not to fly and takes the radio to a HiTec service centre for checking.
The Service Centre charges the Flier for the Case Replacement and the Check of the Radio because "There is no problem"
The flier returns to the field once he gets the radio back (After a month or so)
When flying his 40 sized plane, it suddenly completely loses control and spears in at full throttle - next to the pits - Destroying the entire plane, Engine Rx etc - nothing is recoverable.
The experienced flier takes the radio home, takes the back off and discovers that there is a crack in one of the circuit boards. - emanating from a mounting screw hole and most likely caused by the dropping of the radio. This may not have been notced when the case was renewed as the radio probably functioned fine on the bench. (It also passed a range check immediately prior to the fatal flight).

Now how good is the value of the radio?

That is a real case except it wasn't a 40 sized plane, It was a 1.20 sized Edge and I was the flier involved.

After the handle broke on my first radio, I looked at the other one and a breakage was imminent on that. I then proceeded to get the cases replaced (As fatigue showed) approximatel every year. Last time I saw it, I decided to do something about it - that involved a Tractor and a concrete drive.

XJet

I have a feeling that Hitec's "deny everything" attitude to design flaws is their way of deflecting liability.

If they admit that there *is* a problem and continue to sell gear knowing it may cause harm/injury then they would be liable.

However, if they continue with the line "there is no problem that we're aware of" then they can try the plea of "we didn't know".

I see that Mike is pee'd that I (and others) are raising this issue in a forum where the posts can't be deleted by Hitec but that's really just tough cheese.

Instead of conveniently refusing to debate the issue, why doesn't Hitec just do the morally and commercially sensible thing by admitting there *is* a problem and (in the case of the Spectra/O6 issue) making sure that any remaining faulty units on dealers shelves are recalled.

Until then I suspect people can draw their own conclusions in respect to the company's attitude to customer satisfaction.

Hitec has *tremendously good* support -- but I suspect that's because (due to shipping so much faulty gear) they're very practiced at it.

Here in NZ, if any company sold equipment that they knew was not fit for the purpose it was intended, they'd have their backsides hauled through a court of law so quick their eyes would water. If the US legal system wasn't so expensive, I suspect the same would have happened there.

aussiesteve

Guess why I started the thread here

I (and others) had some posts "Filtered" from another forum where this issue was raised. Only the "preferred" posts were left. The Official reason for my posts being removed was that it was a manufacturers support forum and Non Manufacturers support persons (or words along those lines) weren't supposed to post in them. Funnily enough only some of the "Offending" posts were removed - not all.

My intent on raising this is purely to make people aware that there may be an issue with their radio and to check them BEFORE any person or plane is put at risk.

My suggestion to anyone with an Optic 6 is to check the area of the case where the small metal rod forms the handle. They typically break just below where the rod is fitted. Look for signs of fatigue. Often shows up as white stress lines but this can be difficult to see on the colour of the plastic used - I don't know if it is recycled PVC or not but it does have a similar colour.

If there are signs of fatigue, do not use the handle and either strengthen the area with glue, tape etc or get the case replaced at your next annual radio inspection / certification.

Meanwhile - continue using their servos (Especially the 59xx series) - they're generally great servos that I have found perform as well or better than the manufacturers specifications say.

ira d

I have been in the hobby for some 15 years, my first radio was a Airtronics vanguard
4ch and it was a good radio but shortly after I got in the hobby i went through a
divorce and my ex destroyed some of my hobby gear including the Airtronics
receiver. next I bought some used Futaba radios but they didnt work well at least
one of them so then I bought a new Hitec Prisim then two used Flash radios one
of them i had to send in for repair and i sold it also i had to have the Prisim repaired
once in the the seven or so years i had it and Hitec never charged for repair on the
Flash or prisim.

Next I purchased an Eclipse 7 I think it has only been in once for repair but it came
back with the handle busted off the case and i gave it to a friend who was starting
new in the hobby. I also have a Optics 6 the main reason i purchased it was to
buddy box with the Eclipse. over all I have enjoyed my Hitec radios even better
than my JR662 but it seems that they have let their quality slip particularlty with
their digital servos and the optics 6 and the Fusion 9 receiver. Also my Optic case
broke too.

Im still useing some Hitec equipment but im not purchasing anymore of their
equipment at this time unless a good deal on comes along on their older receivers
or standard servos that are in good shape.

MikeRuth

I have a optic 6 and a eclipse 7. Both are almost two years old now.

I followed the thread regarding the glitching issues and even posted about my experiences, testing and fix. For me, all is well.

But I just came across this thread and decided I better go have a look at my handles and cases. WOW, I'm a victim!!!

I take care of my gear and I have never dropped either of them, but both of them have some issues. I won't be sending them back, as I feel i can do a much better job of making sure the handles will last for many years to come.

Here are pictures of my cases/handles.

aussiesteve

Excellent photos of the problem Mike.

The issue on the Optic case is a simple one. The cross section of the plastic below the handle is not sufficient to accept the tensile load experinced when the is used.


Many people have simply reinforced the area with various compinations of epoxy, tape, CA etc. As long as this is done BEFORE the handle breaks and the radio gets dropped you will have a nice radio for a long time.

For anyone else reading this - Thos photos pretty much sum it up.

BMonee

I too have noticed very poor quality with the Optic 6 product. My handle didn't break, but the transmitter stopped working....twice. I have about 150 minutes of flight time on the TX and it has been sent back to the manufacturer twice. It completely dies and is not reliable.

BMonee

XJet

Please note -- that second quote is entirely fictitious but is what Hitec *SHOULD* be saying right now.

Hey Mike, if you thought I was a PITA I bet you just *love* your new friend BMonee

And to BMonee... I think most of us can understand your frustration but to be fair -- no manufacturer makes perfect equipment (hey, didn't Mike just say that in the above quote?;-) and from time to time people get unlucky. I guess it was *your* time this time. However, going through every thread that's ever mentioned the Optic 6 and posting the same complaint to it really isn't very nice, nor is it likely to win you any sympathy -- even from folks like AussieSteve and I who have our own complaints about Hitec's gear and attutude.

Keep your complaints to a single thread, keep them on-topic and keep them as objective as possible. That's far more likely to have the desired effect.

aussiesteve

BMonee

[/quote]

Please note -- that second quote is entirely fictitious but is what Hitec *SHOULD* be saying right now.

Hey Mike, if you thought I was a PITA I bet you just *love* your new friend BMonee

And to BMonee... I think most of us can understand your frustration but to be fair -- no manufacturer makes perfect equipment (hey, didn't Mike just say that in the above quote?;-) and from time to time people get unlucky. I guess it was *your* time this time. However, going through every thread that's ever mentioned the Optic 6 and posting the same complaint to it really isn't very nice, nor is it likely to win you any sympathy -- even from folks like AussieSteve and I who have our own complaints about Hitec's gear and attutude.

Keep your complaints to a single thread, keep them on-topic and keep them as objective as possible. That's far more likely to have the desired effect.

[/quote]

Hi XJet. I understand that no company has a 0% failure rate. It upset me the first time it broke because it was virtually brand new. This last time it broke makes it completely unacceptable. It was just fixed in June, and I was away for most of the month of July so I didnt use it.

I am not looking for sympathy from anyone. I am looking to spread the word about the quality of this product in the hopes that others won't be as completely dissatisfied as I am and completely regret the purchase. That is what i do as a consumer. When products are good, i say so. When products are bad, I say so. That is the definition of objective, and i was not mean, derogatory or rude in the posts, and i did not swear at all. I think I have done what is expected of me as a consumer, no?

BMonee

mvigod

He is banned. he put in a bogus email in his registration intentionally..feel free to delete ALL his posts even

BMoneee

Boy, that's a shame. A customer repeatedly states a product is faulty and unreliable, and the admins delete the posts? How are we supposed to protect our fellow consumers from making the same mistake?

Ok, so, now that i have a valid email address, is anyone going to comment on the content of my posts?

BMonee

MikeMayberry

My Feedback: (1)

Hitec's policy is to replace an item if it comes in for repiar with the same problem for the third time. Since you state that it has been in to us two times and there is still a problem then please contact us and most likely we will just replace the unit.

Mike Mayberry
Hitec RCD Inc.

mvigod

Yes. I will commnent

1) You had a bogus email in your registration

2) You posted your comments not once, not twice but EIGHTEEN TIMES. This is spamming and against our rules. First step to stop a spammer with bogus email is to ban them first and ask questions later to stop the spamfest. Hopefully you will read our rules here to avoid doing this in the future. If everyone posted 18 times for every post then RCU would be useless to its 100's of thousands of monthly visitors.

marc

4*60

My Feedback: (41)

Thank you Marc. Now back to the topic.......

aussiesteve

That's all very well to hear that now Mike

Let me explain my thoughts on why HiTec wait until the third claim before replacing the item.

After purchasing a radio for Approximately $250. The customer finds a defect in the design when the handle breaks. The customer is then told that there is no warranty on the defectively designed part "Because it has never been heard of before". This happens on two separate occassions and the customer is charged twice for the replacement of the defective item at $135 each time. Should the customer send the unit back a third time, Hi Tec MIGHT replace the faulty item with an identical defective design (Which has never been explained to the customer at any point). If the customer was to send the defective item back a third time, they would most likely be charged again for replacement of the defectively designed part.

Who in their right mind would take the unit back for the third rip-off?

Now multiply that by two radios and you have a total of $1040 for the two radios PLUS another $180 in shipping (I live on the West Coast of Australia and the Authorised repairer is on the East Coast).

By sending the units back a third time, based on the information I had available to me at the time - From the Hitec Representatives themself - I would have incurred another $360 in costs.

I made the decision not to do that. I purchased another radio for not much more than the $360 and got a bunch more functionality. A Radio that I was so impressed with that I bought a second one.

Had I done that in the first place, I would have saved at least $1220.

Those costs do not include the $1100 I had invested in the plane that got destroyed as a direct result of the design flaw or the other two planes that I suspect may have been lost due to the glitching issue but I am unable to prove that.


If it was a receiver that was in question, who in their right mind would consider sending it back a third time and using it again after two planes had probably been destroyed.

pentaxman

Maybe I am lucky but I have a Laser 6 and an Optic 6 and neither are showing any faults around the handles.

The only issue my Optic has is a broken flight mode switch due to a sudden stop in the car which flung it off the seat and into the footwell, bending the switch before breaking the internals.

MikeMayberry

My Feedback: (1)

Please note that Hitec USA is not affiliated with the repair work discussed by aussiesteve. Hitec USA prides ourselves on making our customers happy; in fact in many cases as noted here we will repair or replace an item at no charge for a customer where they could have easily been charged.

It is understandable that aussiesteve is upset, $135 sounds way overpriced for a repair like that! I have no idea why the charge would be that high?!?!?! FYI: We only charge $15 to replace the back case and handle.

I agree... if the handles were breaking at the rate you have experienced then a change would certainally be needed. However, after reviewing our repair records it turns out that less than 1% of the Optics sold have been in for repair to have the handle repaired. From a business standpoint this does not indicate a major issue as it is being made out to be.

Aussiesteve- I'm very sorry you had a bad experience with your Optic and wish you luck with the other manufacturers products.

Mike.

aussiesteve

Yes
Sorry, I did forget to mention that The experience I had was NOT in the USA. In fact Whenever I have dealt with HiTec in the USA, I only ever got the very best service and backup. (This also applies to many other products).

Unfortunately in downunder countries, we are stuck with paying whatever the agent wishes to charge on the day. I am sure that their excuse wil be "Freight costs to Australia, government Duties, etc etc". but never mind, the cost is the cost.

I wonder how many complete radios have been manufactured & supplied and how many cases onlty have been manufactured & supplied. I also wonder how many radios are out there with broken or reinforced handles that have not been replaced.

As I stated earlier, I liked the Optics as a radio, I just got to the point that I was not able to put up with the case issues any longer. Also the fact that the 36MHz PCM receivers are no longer available made it another problem. (I don't know why the Aus Govt insists on us using 36MHz but it does so there's not much we can do)