AJF--2

My Feedback: (119)

OK-- been away for a while and the other thread (and other stuff I have read) don't quite answer all of the questions. When I left the hobby a few years back, I was the only JR guy at out field. A buddy gave me a Futaba transmitter (to seduce me back in-it worked) and now I am the only Futaba guy at the field as it seems everybody else has gone Spect or JR 2.4. I see NO Futaba FASST systems at all. Wha happoned??? [X(]

The FASST system is quite a bit cheaper and the reciever has no satelite attached to the reciever. Does this make it less reliable? Is the range just as good? Does it have the servo sync? I understand the channel hopping-- is that the reason for the single, smaller unit? Again, I know lots of folks with the JR stuff, but I have yet to see anybody flying Futaba 2.4 stuff. The JR/Spect folks certainly got the jump out of the box with this one.

GalenB

My Feedback: (18)

In short -- JR and Spektrum got their "good enough" product into user's hands while Futaba dragged their feet releasing their technically supior product. JR and Spektrum have been shipping systems for almost 2 years starting with the DX-6 and have really been busy this last year with the DX-7 and the JR 9303 2.4. They have also created a rich set of receiver choices that range from the tiny AR6100 to 9 channel models with up to two satelite receivers. They also have a diagnostic gizmo that lets you see how many fades and drops each receiver and satelite experienced. This gizmo is cheap and can really provide peace of mind since you can see what happened during any given flight.

Futaba started shipping an entry level 6 channel systems about a year ago and then slipped the delivery of every other system and module since then. The TM-7 started shipping last fall and the TM-14 started last week. The TM-8 has still not yet shipped -- I had one on back order since last May and I recently canceled it.

I voted with my money and sold my DX-7 and purchased a 12z and TM-14 because I think the Futaba solution is technicially better (frequency hopping is more robust than two channels -- period). However, the JR/Spektrum solution is good enough, cheaper, and has been available longer. The demand for SS systems has been astounding and the company with products on store shelves is going to win a lot of business and that's exactly what JR / Spektrum has done. They have become the defacto leaders in this RC market segment.

Also -- the JR/Spektrum receivers and easier to mount and the satelites can be mounted a long ways away from the main receiver. This is a flexible system. The Futaba antennas are proving harder to deal with and need some kind of holder to keep them at 90 degrees from each other. They are also really challenging to mount in smaller models.

To answer some of you specific questions:
[ul][*] The FASST system is only cheaper if you only buy a module and a receiver. In general the 7 channel receivers all cost about $100.00.[*] FASST doesn't need the satelite receivers because of their technology and the 90 degree antenna spread. In theory FASST should be more reliable because of the frequency hopping (most military communications use FH to make them harder to jam)... [*] The range is the same as this has more to do with the transmitter power output and that's regulated to less that a watt (I think?).[*] No servo sync on FASST modules. The transmitter programming remains the same as it was with a 72 mhz module. You are limited to 8 channels because the transmitter must use PPM with a FASST module. The 12z, 12FG, and 14MZ with a TM-14 module are fully featured and don't use PPM, but they are also much more expensive.
[/ul]

rmh

A real puzzler to me - Futaba and XPS -- neither has a sync feature and the Model Match feature - which to me is a major breakthru in basic RC- is -- also not there - but then some guys really are not into setups where it would ever be noticed --

Excusing "Model Match" as being - "Not really necessary" really escapes me ---- Every durn fool flyer needs it
except for those who NEVER make mistakes .

3D Joy

What is the sync feature and model match?

stinky

Futaba's been into 2.4 mhz radios for about 15 years!!! They haven't been in the model end of it because this is Futaba smallest portion of there company, for about the last 10 years. Only after Spectrum came out with the ther park flyer radio that sold like hot cakes. Futaba then saw some $$$$ signs in the model 2.4 arena! It took a year to play catch up, but Futaba will once again soar past these other infant radio comapanys like Spectrum. Which depends on who's talking has lots of issues with keeping aircraft in the air. Jr has held the market for the last 10 years in model radios, but too are just a young comapny when it comes to 2.4 mhz.
steve

GalenB

My Feedback: (18)

Servo sync is the name of the Spektrum / JR feature that causes servos on different channels to track the same throughout their range of travel. This is really useful for dual elevator systems where you want both elevators to track the same through out the full range of travel. The 12 and 14 channel Futaba transmitters likley have have this feature as they are designed for lots of servos working together, but I will have to check further.

Model match Spektrum / JR is a feature that prevents the model from responding to the wrong model memory. When the receiver and transmitter are bound the receiver not only records the transmitter's GUID -- it also records the model number (memory location). After binding the receiver will only respond to the correct transmitter set to the correct model memory.

GalenB

My Feedback: (18)

This shouldn't surprise you -- these are both module based systems that are retrofitted to older transmitters. You need firmware in the transmitter to support servos sync and model match. Do the Spektrum modules have servo sync and model match when used with a JR 8103? I don't think so, but I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong.

The 12Z/12FG/14MZ have similar features to servo sync and model match, but they are many times the cost of a DX-7...

nonstoprc

My Feedback: (90)

To bind a recevier to either a Spectrum/JR or Futaba 2.4 radio, is it necessary to touch a button or something on the receiver? I did not own any 2.4 equipment and so the question.

If so, it seems to me a hassle because you need to remove the canopy to reach the receiver, if several planes on 2.4 are brought to the field and to be flown, with one radio.

AJF--2

My Feedback: (119)

I think they do. One of my buddies has the 9303 w/2.4 module on his WH Edge with duel elevator servos.

yakman

I dont understand how Futaba could just make modules with integral antennas for their top line radios[:'(]. I would rather have a fat girlfriend.

PLANE JIM

My Feedback: (109)

once you bind your plane to the transmitter there is no need to bind again, in other words-you do not bind your airplane everytime you turn it on or off or fly another day.

tadawson

Because it doesn't cripple the radio by locking it into one frequency/band? Myself, I would take a modular system over a built-in any day. Ever notice that it's only the higher end radios in both the Futaba and JR lines that are modular? Think about it . . . it's a desirable, higher end feature. Myself, I can't see ever moving to just one band, and not being able to be "frequency agile" with the TX would suck . . . for now, I am on 50MHz and a little bit of 72MHz. If and when I go to 2.4, I will ***NOT*** be abandoning 50 . . . . it's already flawless where I fly . . . and if it ain't broke, I don't fix it!

- Tim

Josey Wales

My Feedback: (61)

Man I better get my hip-boots---its getting real deep in here![8D]

rmh

ONLY the dedicated 2.4 TX have these features
BUT-with the upcoming DX6i- those features span the entire lineup from very inexpensive 6 channel to the top of the price line 12 channel
One other little item they added - just about any rx in the line up will work with any of these TX from the low priced small electric model rx to the 6 ch and possibly the 12 (don't know about that one).
All of the 2.4 on the market work - setup correctly - he features I like may not all be the features others like
the Model Match is a tie buster for me.

nonstoprc

My Feedback: (90)

So at field to switch to a different airplane from a 2.4 radio, what should I do?

With my Futaba 9c 72mhz radio, I just need to select the model, turn the radio off and back on.

yakman

I am all for modular systems.

I thought that if Futaba engineers can come up with the 14MZ, then they could come up with a better solution than a "third arm".


Two others and myself had been waiting for the 12FG because we thought it was an integral system. I had my heart set on a 14MZ but was going to get the 12FG because it was represented as being integral. The pictures plasted from here to kingdom come, would indicate that the 12FG was an intergrated system and the literature tells the same story. The only place where I have found the truth was in the futaba support forum, yesterday.

I dont blame futaba for trying to hide this child.


Rant over. Going with JR, if only for the short term.

shakes268

One thing people don't seem to realize or keep forgetting about is that the module Futaba systems on the 12Z, 12FG and 14MZ software has been reworked.

It is not like the spektrum modules - you don't set your radio to broadcast PPM and let the module handle a PPM to FHSS or DSSS conversion. You switch it to 2.4GHz band and the software is handling everything just like if the module was soldered and integrated into the radio.

Sure, the lower end radios with the modules will have to deal with the conversion. Why? Because the software in the 9C, 9CS, older 7C, etc is NOT updateable. The 12 and 14 channel transmitters are.

I knew it was a modular system for months on the 12FG. How? The web site - look at the matrix. It showed it used the TM-14 module. It showed what receivers worked with it.

http://2.4gigahertz.com/modules/modules-receivers.html

yakman

That page is the module-receiver page. So if I had an FM 12Fg then that would be applicable.

From the 12FG 2.4ghz page; http://2.4gigahertz.com/systems/futk9200.html

12FG Specifics:

G3 2048 resolution
30 model memory — up to 1,882 models with a 1GB SD card
Combines airplane, glider, and helicopter programming
Supports 13 wing types, 3 tail types, and
8 heli swash types
8 total flight conditions (7 plus the default)
Variable Dual Rates (VDR)
Servo grouping for servo synchronization
Digital trims on all 4 main channels
7.2V 1700mAh NiMH transmitter battery
Battery charging jack
Ergonomic rubber grips
12FG System Overview:

Quad-bearing gimbals
27 preset model types, with built-in shortcuts
Newly designed “joystick� button and Dial-N-Key editing for easier menu navigating
Ultra-precise tuning in .5% increments
Front-mounted slider switches for easier access
255 x 196 LCD Screen with Adjustable Contrast
You get all this with the 12FG:

R6014FS 2048 Receiver
Heavy-Duty Switch Harness
7.2V 1700mAh NiMH Transmitter Battery
1500mAh Receiver NiCd Battery
Futaba Orange Transmitter Neck Strap

CAnt see anything about a module there.

3D Joy

Having a module is good in that you can change it when it breaks without the need to send it back to Futaba. I don't like the idea of having a 2000$ radio going through UPS...

PJ_TankPilot

I have always been amazed by brand loyalty. Whether it be cars, boats, RC electronics, etc. People make the brand decision and then look for supporting reasons, not the other way around.

When 2.4 came on the scene, I was interested and have been monitoring the progress of XPS, Spread Spektrum/JR and Futaba. I think I am well informed.

The claim that one is ‘superior technology’ is marketing hype. ALL have their advantages and disadvantages. Learn them and chose the system that best fits your needs.

After happily flying Futaba TX and RX for many years, I switched to JR 2.4. It is the best fit for me.

Josey Wales

My Feedback: (61)

Well said...

Zeeb

My Feedback: (41)

Add me to the list of former Futaba users. While there are programming features I miss about my 9Z WC2, the new X9303 is a great radio and all of my stuff has now been converted to 2.4...[8D]

GalenB

My Feedback: (18)

As spoken by two who have their own brand loyalty...

You are entitled to your opinion, but frequency hopping technology is harder to jam and is less prone to interference -- and that's not marketing hype. It remains to be seen how well the Futaba implementation of this technology performs now that it is in the hands of ordinary people... Just like the Spektrum receiver low voltage reboot non-issue I'm sure we'll hear all about any issues found with FASST.

Josey Wales

My Feedback: (61)

YAWN

BTW which 2.4 system do you own ?

rmh

"Superior Technology " goes down in history with " Thunderbird Styling" as meaningful phrases