Glitches in my new 4 *
05-26-2008, 08:42 PM
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Glitches in my new 4 *
Hi folks
Got a good one for yas. Finished my Four Star .40 kit a couple weeks ago, and its been awesome for my first low wing aircraft.
But every once in a while, 2 to 3 times in a 10 minute flight, the airplane will yaw to the right as if i gave it full right rudder, but I didnt. I've checked this a number of times including different air speeds, winds speeds, pilot, and different ends of the field. When ever it feels like it, it happens. After going over previous flights it may be getting an elevator, and aileron glitch also, but they are not as often or apparent as the rudder glitch.
Equipment: All brand new componets:
Sig 4 * .40 kit
O.S. Max 46AX
Tower Hobbies System 3000 6xm 6 channel FM radio 72 mhz channel 53
5 Tower Hobbies standard servos (dual aileron seros)
Futuba 6" Heavy Duty Dual Servo Extension J ( FUTM4135)
MCI NiMh 2100 mah 4.8 receiver battery
Golden rod control rods( the blue ones)
Pinned hinges with 1 long pin (piano wire) though all the hinges (for easy control surface change) also seals the air gap
I have 2 other planes I fly with the same radio and very simular setups, the only exceptions are single ailerons servos and 500mah NiCd batteries (Tower Hobbies), without any problems that I've noticed.
I've already replaced the rudder servo with a new servo. That did not fix the problem.
Today I swapped the receivers with one of the other planes. That did not fix the problem.
We wigged tested and range tested they radio system. We did not find the problem.
Its not unflyable but you have to be ready for it to do something strange, you all know what I mean
I would appreciate any help on this.
Thanks
Got a good one for yas. Finished my Four Star .40 kit a couple weeks ago, and its been awesome for my first low wing aircraft.
But every once in a while, 2 to 3 times in a 10 minute flight, the airplane will yaw to the right as if i gave it full right rudder, but I didnt. I've checked this a number of times including different air speeds, winds speeds, pilot, and different ends of the field. When ever it feels like it, it happens. After going over previous flights it may be getting an elevator, and aileron glitch also, but they are not as often or apparent as the rudder glitch.
Equipment: All brand new componets:
Sig 4 * .40 kit
O.S. Max 46AX
Tower Hobbies System 3000 6xm 6 channel FM radio 72 mhz channel 53
5 Tower Hobbies standard servos (dual aileron seros)
Futuba 6" Heavy Duty Dual Servo Extension J ( FUTM4135)
MCI NiMh 2100 mah 4.8 receiver battery
Golden rod control rods( the blue ones)
Pinned hinges with 1 long pin (piano wire) though all the hinges (for easy control surface change) also seals the air gap
I have 2 other planes I fly with the same radio and very simular setups, the only exceptions are single ailerons servos and 500mah NiCd batteries (Tower Hobbies), without any problems that I've noticed.
I've already replaced the rudder servo with a new servo. That did not fix the problem.
Today I swapped the receivers with one of the other planes. That did not fix the problem.
We wigged tested and range tested they radio system. We did not find the problem.
Its not unflyable but you have to be ready for it to do something strange, you all know what I mean
I would appreciate any help on this.Thanks
05-27-2008, 12:37 AM
#2
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RE: Glitches in my new 4 *
Gkpain, what you are telling us can only be a radio issue. I would ground the plane until you find out what is happening. Do a range check, TX antenna colapsed, and the engine running. walk out about 300 ft from the plane and set the transmitter on the ground and see what is going on. You should be able to get no jitters response here. With the antenna up and the plane in the air, you would be good to go for as far as you can see the plane to fly it.
Thing I would check for problems. Check all of the servo connection to make sure you don't have a pushed pin. With the plugs into the receiver and Y harness look very closely at the back of the pin where the wire exit and make sure that they are all the same. I ran into this problem once where an aileron plug had one pin that wasn't latched into the housing correctly. One pin to that servo was intementent so the servo was the same. On the Y harness, check pins on both sides.
from your description, it almost has to be something with the servos on the ailerons. It would be worth swapping out the servos with some new ones if you don't find a cable issue.
I've had over 35 years experience working on computers. Intermentent problems are always dificult to resolve. And, they never go away, but only get worse. The good news is that they are easier to find when they get worse. The bad news is that they hit at the worst times.
Go back over all of the connections in you setup. Check the antenna for breaks. Check every plug to make sure there is no pushed pins. Double check them for corrsion and crud in the pins. Check for the wiring slipping back from the pins and possible shorting. I just found a Futaba battery that this was happening on. Look everything over with an evil eye. If you see something that even sparks the though of "I wonder if this is OK" , it isn't. Fix it.
That is too good of a flying airplane to let crash because of radio issues. Ground it until you find the problem. Waitning for something strange to happen is waiting for a crash.
Don
PS, let us know what you find. Sharing you problems and what ends up fixing them is as important than sharing your successes.
Thing I would check for problems. Check all of the servo connection to make sure you don't have a pushed pin. With the plugs into the receiver and Y harness look very closely at the back of the pin where the wire exit and make sure that they are all the same. I ran into this problem once where an aileron plug had one pin that wasn't latched into the housing correctly. One pin to that servo was intementent so the servo was the same. On the Y harness, check pins on both sides.
from your description, it almost has to be something with the servos on the ailerons. It would be worth swapping out the servos with some new ones if you don't find a cable issue.
I've had over 35 years experience working on computers. Intermentent problems are always dificult to resolve. And, they never go away, but only get worse. The good news is that they are easier to find when they get worse. The bad news is that they hit at the worst times.
Go back over all of the connections in you setup. Check the antenna for breaks. Check every plug to make sure there is no pushed pins. Double check them for corrsion and crud in the pins. Check for the wiring slipping back from the pins and possible shorting. I just found a Futaba battery that this was happening on. Look everything over with an evil eye. If you see something that even sparks the though of "I wonder if this is OK" , it isn't. Fix it.
That is too good of a flying airplane to let crash because of radio issues. Ground it until you find the problem. Waitning for something strange to happen is waiting for a crash.
Don
PS, let us know what you find. Sharing you problems and what ends up fixing them is as important than sharing your successes.
05-27-2008, 12:42 AM
#3
Senior Member
RE: Glitches in my new 4 *
What is with the antenna wire. I just took a close look at the photos. In the first one, it looks like the antenna wire is looping over the servos and the pushrods. Pull the antenna wire away from the servos and pushrods as best you can. Also all of that slack needs to be fluttering behind the plane. Keep the antenna as straight as possible and as far away from other wiring as possible. This may have nothing to do with your problem, but it is good practice to prevent problems when possible and your antenna routing looks like a potential problem.
Don
Don
05-27-2008, 10:35 AM
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RE: Glitches in my new 4 *
Thanks for your reply Campgems,
In the first picture I posted the installation was not complete. If you look at the 3rd picture closely you can (mostly) see the antenna wire is routed correctly. Also a range check and wiggle test was conducted at the same time yesterday and the range was quite far, atleast 400 feet with the antenna collapsed on the transmitter and the person was standing between the airplane and transmitter. I've haven't been able to duplicte this problem on the ground, just in flight around 100 to 150 ft high. I have conducted a pin check and so far everthing looks good, but I need to go back through it and be more thorough. I understand the safety risk and your concern about fling an airplane with a glitch, but as I stated the problem seems to only occured in the air. I am going to do a more thorough inspection of the connectors and pins this week. If i can not find the problem,I will change the switch harness next. I want to isolate the problem so this does not find its way back into another aircraft. Could a servo be causing this>?? Which will be my next move.
Thxs again
In the first picture I posted the installation was not complete. If you look at the 3rd picture closely you can (mostly) see the antenna wire is routed correctly. Also a range check and wiggle test was conducted at the same time yesterday and the range was quite far, atleast 400 feet with the antenna collapsed on the transmitter and the person was standing between the airplane and transmitter. I've haven't been able to duplicte this problem on the ground, just in flight around 100 to 150 ft high. I have conducted a pin check and so far everthing looks good, but I need to go back through it and be more thorough. I understand the safety risk and your concern about fling an airplane with a glitch, but as I stated the problem seems to only occured in the air. I am going to do a more thorough inspection of the connectors and pins this week. If i can not find the problem,I will change the switch harness next. I want to isolate the problem so this does not find its way back into another aircraft. Could a servo be causing this>?? Which will be my next move.
Thxs again
05-27-2008, 11:46 AM
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RE: Glitches in my new 4 *
I believe I'd try switching out the receiver with another plane and 1) watch for the problem on the other plane and 2) watch for the problem on the 4*. In case 1 only would suggest a problem with the receiver and case 2 only with a servo.
Regards,
Clay
Regards,
Clay
05-27-2008, 12:18 PM
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RE: Glitches in my new 4 *
Thxs for your reply Clay
That was my first thought also.
I did however replace the rudder servo first and yesterday i switched the receiver out with another receiver from another one of my planes that i doesn't seem to have any issues. That did not fix the problem. I also rerouted the antenna and repositioned the receiver. That didnt fix the problem either.
Thxs again
That was my first thought also.
I did however replace the rudder servo first and yesterday i switched the receiver out with another receiver from another one of my planes that i doesn't seem to have any issues. That did not fix the problem. I also rerouted the antenna and repositioned the receiver. That didnt fix the problem either.
Thxs again
05-27-2008, 12:44 PM
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RE: Glitches in my new 4 *
No, its is a metal clevis soldered to the throttle cable and the servo horn (arm) is plastic. This was included in the 4 * kit.
Thxs again
Thxs again
05-27-2008, 03:43 PM
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RE: Glitches in my new 4 *
OK finally got to check this out, because I forgot what was there. I have a plastic clevis at the engines metal control arm. I hadn't thought of this. But was a very good tip.
Thxs JohnBuckner
Thxs JohnBuckner
05-27-2008, 08:39 PM
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RE: Glitches in my new 4 *
Arceenut , I just double checked all the hinge pins. After reading your post. None of them are touching any other metal. The elevator hinge pins may be as close as 1/2" from the elevator joining rod on each side but are not touching. I can shorten them alittle
I replaced the switch and harness and check all the connections and pins for correct connections, after work today and did a ground test for 25 minutes with the engine running. Everything worked perfectly, I worked the controls as if i were fling and varied the throttle. Never got the glitch. I will try to get a test flight in before the weekend.
I meant to post this first pic with my last post. Its showing a plastic clevis on the throttle arm.
The second pic shows the end of the antenna routed through a T-pin to help keep it out of any control surface. I've been doing this on all my planes, but could this be a problem>???
Thxs Arceenut
I replaced the switch and harness and check all the connections and pins for correct connections, after work today and did a ground test for 25 minutes with the engine running. Everything worked perfectly, I worked the controls as if i were fling and varied the throttle. Never got the glitch. I will try to get a test flight in before the weekend
.I meant to post this first pic with my last post. Its showing a plastic clevis on the throttle arm.
The second pic shows the end of the antenna routed through a T-pin to help keep it out of any control surface. I've been doing this on all my planes, but could this be a problem>???
Thxs Arceenut
05-27-2008, 11:25 PM
#14
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RE: Glitches in my new 4 *
GKpain, is your antenna wire full length? Did you replace the battery. Some of them have been know to have bad welds and the intermently open up. A voltwatch might show up a sudden drop in voltage. Better yet is to cut the shrink wrap on the battery and get to the ends and try to lift the tabs to see if any has a bad weld. You can tape or use some scrap covering and make a new wrap for the batterys if all is well.
A servo is another possibility. You may try your ground check again and put a bit of load on each control surface to see if you can induce a failure.
At full throw, is any of your control surfaces bottoming out? You might plug a VoltWatch into your receiver and watch the lights as you move each servo to maximum travel to see if it is binding or stalling out. You would see a drop in the voltage on the VoltWatch if this were happening. A bit of flutter in the lights is normal with servo movement, but one causing a drop into or near the yellow light might indicate a problem with the linkage or servo.
Last, is the pushrod for the throttle by any chance rubbing on the engine case?
From your photos, everything looks like a nice clean setup. I don't see anything in the photos that raises an alarm.
I have a plane in my shop that needs a lower leading edge sheeting on the wing. and new covering. I had a couple issues where the plane went a little squirlly on the ground but once in the air it was fine. The last almost flight, I started my take off roll and it suddenly turned right, I got it back on line after a couple wild swings and when I pulled up elevator to lift off, it made a right turn and bounced through the weeds off the runway. It just wouldn't lift althoug it had twice the speed to go airborne. I cut the throttle and nothing, Then the engine quit at the stame time it went airborne. It glided over a fence and dropped into the pond that borders our field. The plane was setting on it landing gear with the water an inch or so below the wing. When I picked it up, the wing was full of watter, and the lower LE sheeting was broken is a number of places. I got it back to the bench and everything was dry inside. One of the guys suggested I run the engine for a bit to flush out any water the may have gotten in it. I fired it up and it started right off. I was running it up when I noticed the VoltWatch was showing a red light. I had pulled the plane off the charger just before leaving for the field. I packed up and went home. Got home and hosed the mud off the LG and let it dry off. I turned the radio back on and again a red light. After setting for a couple hours drying in the sun, I brought it back to the bench to see what the problem was. I turned the switch on again and this time the VoltWatch showed full charge. To this day, I have no clue what went wrong. I cut the leads off the switch and threw it away. I skinned the battery and checked all the tabs and the voltage under a load on each individual cell. When I get the plane back in flying conditioin, it will have a new switch and a new battery. Like I said, I have not clue what went wrong. The fact that the VoltWatch showed a full discharge voltage for a while convinces me that it was a voltage related problem. The switch and battery are the only two choices as all servos were operating OK when the VoltWatch was showing a problem.
I hope you find your problem.
Last,is it possible that someone at your field, or near it was hitting you?
Don
A servo is another possibility. You may try your ground check again and put a bit of load on each control surface to see if you can induce a failure.
At full throw, is any of your control surfaces bottoming out? You might plug a VoltWatch into your receiver and watch the lights as you move each servo to maximum travel to see if it is binding or stalling out. You would see a drop in the voltage on the VoltWatch if this were happening. A bit of flutter in the lights is normal with servo movement, but one causing a drop into or near the yellow light might indicate a problem with the linkage or servo.
Last, is the pushrod for the throttle by any chance rubbing on the engine case?
From your photos, everything looks like a nice clean setup. I don't see anything in the photos that raises an alarm.
I have a plane in my shop that needs a lower leading edge sheeting on the wing. and new covering. I had a couple issues where the plane went a little squirlly on the ground but once in the air it was fine. The last almost flight, I started my take off roll and it suddenly turned right, I got it back on line after a couple wild swings and when I pulled up elevator to lift off, it made a right turn and bounced through the weeds off the runway. It just wouldn't lift althoug it had twice the speed to go airborne. I cut the throttle and nothing, Then the engine quit at the stame time it went airborne. It glided over a fence and dropped into the pond that borders our field. The plane was setting on it landing gear with the water an inch or so below the wing. When I picked it up, the wing was full of watter, and the lower LE sheeting was broken is a number of places. I got it back to the bench and everything was dry inside. One of the guys suggested I run the engine for a bit to flush out any water the may have gotten in it. I fired it up and it started right off. I was running it up when I noticed the VoltWatch was showing a red light. I had pulled the plane off the charger just before leaving for the field. I packed up and went home. Got home and hosed the mud off the LG and let it dry off. I turned the radio back on and again a red light. After setting for a couple hours drying in the sun, I brought it back to the bench to see what the problem was. I turned the switch on again and this time the VoltWatch showed full charge. To this day, I have no clue what went wrong. I cut the leads off the switch and threw it away. I skinned the battery and checked all the tabs and the voltage under a load on each individual cell. When I get the plane back in flying conditioin, it will have a new switch and a new battery. Like I said, I have not clue what went wrong. The fact that the VoltWatch showed a full discharge voltage for a while convinces me that it was a voltage related problem. The switch and battery are the only two choices as all servos were operating OK when the VoltWatch was showing a problem.
I hope you find your problem.
Last,is it possible that someone at your field, or near it was hitting you?
Don
05-28-2008, 12:45 PM
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RE: Glitches in my new 4 *
Yes Campgens the antenna is full length.
No, I havent replaced the battery yet, but i have landed immediately and check the battery with a Futuba BR-2000, which allows me to put up to a 3 amp draw on it. Usually the battery voltage is between 5.1 and 5.3 volts and maintains this voltage with a 1 amp draw.
I have a hobbico voltwatch on the plane but I have disconnected it because of the glitching. I have notice some flicking of the LEDs on it before, so I bought the BR-2000. Which I trust alil more. I know this may not find a lose contact, but it might.
As for binding I haven't checked since the completion of the plane, but everthing seems to work ok. I will check this.
Bottoming out. I'll post some pics tonite of my control surface available throws. I purposely made the control surface with too much throw. When you see the pics you'll understand. I'd said, just guessing, I have an available 75 degrees each way. Yet I have them set to the manufactures recommendations. BTW the man. rec. on the aileron throws is way to much, I think they made a mistake there. Its says 5/8" up and down, I think 5/16" up and down is more better.
The throttle cable is clear from the engine, it doesnt rub anywhere I can see.
As for someone hitting me I have intensionally stayed untill everyone has left the field, unless their hiding in the surrounding woods, I dont think that this is the case. Besides that, I have 2 other airplanes that use the same radio and channel. They do not seem to be effected. Eliminating the transmitter and channel frequency.
I'm sorry about your plane Campgems, hope you get it fixed.
I'm gonna try to get a flight or 2 in tonight to find out if replacing the switch harness is the cure or not. I will probally be the only 1 there so that will help too.
So, far I have eliminated:
Being hit by someone (I think)
Transmitter
rudder servo
receiver
Thxs again for your help
No, I havent replaced the battery yet, but i have landed immediately and check the battery with a Futuba BR-2000, which allows me to put up to a 3 amp draw on it. Usually the battery voltage is between 5.1 and 5.3 volts and maintains this voltage with a 1 amp draw.
I have a hobbico voltwatch on the plane but I have disconnected it because of the glitching. I have notice some flicking of the LEDs on it before, so I bought the BR-2000. Which I trust alil more. I know this may not find a lose contact, but it might.
As for binding I haven't checked since the completion of the plane, but everthing seems to work ok. I will check this.
Bottoming out
. I'll post some pics tonite of my control surface available throws. I purposely made the control surface with too much throw. When you see the pics you'll understand. I'd said, just guessing, I have an available 75 degrees each way. Yet I have them set to the manufactures recommendations. BTW the man. rec. on the aileron throws is way to much, I think they made a mistake there. Its says 5/8" up and down, I think 5/16" up and down is more better.The throttle cable is clear from the engine, it doesnt rub anywhere I can see.
As for someone hitting me I have intensionally stayed untill everyone has left the field, unless their hiding in the surrounding woods, I dont think that this is the case. Besides that, I have 2 other airplanes that use the same radio and channel. They do not seem to be effected. Eliminating the transmitter and channel frequency.
I'm sorry about your plane Campgems, hope you get it fixed.
I'm gonna try to get a flight or 2 in tonight to find out if replacing the switch harness is the cure or not. I will probally be the only 1 there so that will help too.
So, far I have eliminated:
Being hit by someone (I think)
Transmitter
rudder servo
receiver
Thxs again for your help
05-28-2008, 01:44 PM
#16
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RE: Glitches in my new 4 *
gkpain, I think the 5/8" is correct. You have a lot of wing to move around. My 4*60 had about 3/4" on low rate and 1 1/4" on high rate and that was on a bigger than stock aileron. I think you will find the 5/16 a bit slugish, but quite flyable.
The VoltWatch shows near instant readings, so a sudden movement of a stick will show a drop in voltage, All sticks moving and the voltage will drop even more. It is kind of like looking at the voltabe bus with an osiliscope. If you are flying a PCM setup, and the voltatage drops to low, the receiver will shut down and the reboot it's self. This is a problem with the big 1/3 scale Gasers. That is one of the reasons for the voltage regulators to the receiver. This isn't a very likely an issue on the 4*40 though and with the voltage readings you are quoting, it is very unlikely that you are dropping below critical voltage in flight.
One last thing popped to mind, are all your servos new? If not, one of them may have a chipped tooth and is binding under pressure. If you don't find anything else, it might be worth doing a close inspection of the servo gear train. If you see a chipped or missing tooth, clean every last bit of lube frrom the servo and then replace the gears. A tooth can hide in the lube and work around to cause more mistchief.
Good luck.
Don
The VoltWatch shows near instant readings, so a sudden movement of a stick will show a drop in voltage, All sticks moving and the voltage will drop even more. It is kind of like looking at the voltabe bus with an osiliscope. If you are flying a PCM setup, and the voltatage drops to low, the receiver will shut down and the reboot it's self. This is a problem with the big 1/3 scale Gasers. That is one of the reasons for the voltage regulators to the receiver. This isn't a very likely an issue on the 4*40 though and with the voltage readings you are quoting, it is very unlikely that you are dropping below critical voltage in flight.
One last thing popped to mind, are all your servos new? If not, one of them may have a chipped tooth and is binding under pressure. If you don't find anything else, it might be worth doing a close inspection of the servo gear train. If you see a chipped or missing tooth, clean every last bit of lube frrom the servo and then replace the gears. A tooth can hide in the lube and work around to cause more mistchief.
Good luck.
Don
05-28-2008, 08:42 PM
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RE: Glitches in my new 4 *
Well the good news is I didn't crash it. (was close once)
Never knew how boring fling in right and left circles could be. (wonder how them Nascar boys do it
)
The bad news is its still glitches.
After changing the switch harness last night, I went to the field after work today.
First flight: seemed ok until late in the flight it started glitching. Yawing at will, I even saw some aileron and elevator glitch but never all at the same time, I don't think. I had checked the battery voltage before the flight, its was 5.2 volts, after the flight it was 5.1 volts.
Thinking simple I removed the end of the antenna wire from the t-pin in the VS and tried again.
Second flight: The flight didnt last long as I saw some aileron glitch and landed. Volts were still 5.1.
I changed the right aileron servo (I should have done this at the house). And tried again.
Third flight: WOW! scared me about 2 minutes in. So I put her down again. The glitching seems to have gotta worse, so I immediately checked battery voltage and it was 4.9 volts.
Thinking maybe voltage problems I put the TX and RX on the field charging for 20 minutes or so. And tried again. RX voltage was 5.6 and TX voltage was 11.0 after charging. After the flight the RX voltage was 5.4 and TX was 10.2 I think.
Forth Flight: As soon as I got above the trees I could tell glitching was to come. So i turned for a final approach. On the way I got a right roll I didnt ask for. It rolled about 90 degrees, but responded guickly to my correction, As it always has.
I took the wing off and inspected carefully for wires rubbing or tangled in a servo, all looked good.
I then plugged my voltwatch back in and watched the LEDs while I worked the controls.
Only the first green LED was lit while working the throttle, rudder or elevator. While working the ailerons (2 servos) the 2nd and third green LED flickered alil. Never got a yellow or red LED.
I will replace the left aileron servo tonite (at the house) and try again tommorrow maybe. If this doesn't do it, I will replace the Y-harness with a new one. and on and on.
Campgems, I think I will learn to like the higher throws once I am confident the plane wont fly its self
But as my first low wing plane and a good low wing trainer (everyone says and I agree) I found it to be real quick at the manufactures recommendations. And my plane is modified and probally response better than an ARF version. I have 0 air cap between my control surfaces. Heres some pics. Oh tell your son to com early almost everyone is gone by 2:00pm.
Never knew how boring fling in right and left circles could be. (wonder how them Nascar boys do it
)The bad news is its still glitches.
After changing the switch harness last night, I went to the field after work today.
First flight: seemed ok until late in the flight it started glitching. Yawing at will, I even saw some aileron and elevator glitch but never all at the same time, I don't think. I had checked the battery voltage before the flight, its was 5.2 volts, after the flight it was 5.1 volts.
Thinking simple I removed the end of the antenna wire from the t-pin in the VS and tried again.
Second flight: The flight didnt last long as I saw some aileron glitch and landed. Volts were still 5.1.
I changed the right aileron servo (I should have done this at the house). And tried again.
Third flight: WOW! scared me about 2 minutes in. So I put her down again. The glitching seems to have gotta worse, so I immediately checked battery voltage and it was 4.9 volts.
Thinking maybe voltage problems I put the TX and RX on the field charging for 20 minutes or so. And tried again. RX voltage was 5.6 and TX voltage was 11.0 after charging. After the flight the RX voltage was 5.4 and TX was 10.2 I think.
Forth Flight: As soon as I got above the trees I could tell glitching was to come. So i turned for a final approach. On the way I got a right roll I didnt ask for. It rolled about 90 degrees, but responded guickly to my correction, As it always has.
I took the wing off and inspected carefully for wires rubbing or tangled in a servo, all looked good.
I then plugged my voltwatch back in and watched the LEDs while I worked the controls.
Only the first green LED was lit while working the throttle, rudder or elevator. While working the ailerons (2 servos) the 2nd and third green LED flickered alil. Never got a yellow or red LED.
I will replace the left aileron servo tonite (at the house) and try again tommorrow maybe. If this doesn't do it, I will replace the Y-harness with a new one. and on and on.
Campgems, I think I will learn to like the higher throws once I am confident the plane wont fly its self
But as my first low wing plane and a good low wing trainer (everyone says and I agree) I found it to be real quick at the manufactures recommendations. And my plane is modified and probally response better than an ARF version. I have 0 air cap between my control surfaces. Heres some pics. Oh tell your son to com early almost everyone is gone by 2:00pm.
05-28-2008, 09:02 PM
#18
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RE: Glitches in my new 4 *
You said you are flying on channel 53 is any body else useing 53 and are they having trouble. I have flown at some fields that some channels could not be used because of interference problems.
05-28-2008, 09:25 PM
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RE: Glitches in my new 4 *
Hey Crash-RCU,
Yes there are a couple other people that use channel 53, but I have not heard of any of them having any problems.
I fogot to state that I was the only one there at the field this evening so, I don't think this is the problem unless they are hiding in the woods or where I cant see them.
I also have 2 other airplanes of my own that use the same channel and Transmitter. Neither of them have a problem.
Oh yea, while charging my batteries after the third flight, I turned on my Hobbico Frequency checker and watched it for 20 minutes or so.
I didn't get a single hit on it.
I don't think that is happening, I've also done a pretty intense range check with no clues
Thxs for your input
Yes there are a couple other people that use channel 53, but I have not heard of any of them having any problems.
I fogot to state that I was the only one there at the field this evening so, I don't think this is the problem unless they are hiding in the woods or where I cant see them.
I also have 2 other airplanes of my own that use the same channel and Transmitter. Neither of them have a problem.
Oh yea, while charging my batteries after the third flight, I turned on my Hobbico Frequency checker and watched it for 20 minutes or so.
I didn't get a single hit on it.
I don't think that is happening, I've also done a pretty intense range check with no clues
Thxs for your input
05-29-2008, 01:35 AM
#20
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RE: Glitches in my new 4 *
One more suggestion as it looks as if you have covered almost everything so far. Get one of the experienced guys at the field to handle the transmitter while you watch the plane closely.. When he starts seeing the problem, pay close atention to the plane and see what is going on with the surfces, Is it just alieron, just rudder, what is going on.
I 've found that when you have the transmitter in hand, an thing start going wrong, you are not able to anylize the problem as you are to fixed on saving the plane. If someone else has control. you can really get a better idea of what is happening. This is a wierd problem that is going to take a couple sets of eyes to figure out what is happening.
Try this and let us know what happens with you and a co-pilot.
Don
I 've found that when you have the transmitter in hand, an thing start going wrong, you are not able to anylize the problem as you are to fixed on saving the plane. If someone else has control. you can really get a better idea of what is happening. This is a wierd problem that is going to take a couple sets of eyes to figure out what is happening.
Try this and let us know what happens with you and a co-pilot.
Don
05-29-2008, 08:18 PM
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RE: Glitches in my new 4 *
Unfortunetly I didnt get to fly tonite so I,
Put the rudder servo back in
The right aileron servo back in
Put the new servo in the left aileron position (next test)
Recentered all my control surfaces
And a radio check to make sure all was working correctly.
Campgens, I had the best pilot ( in my opinion) at our field, fly my 4 star twice. He made me look not worthy
.
The first flight he got an obvisous yaw to the left, when he did he said, whoa wth was that! I said yea thats what I'm talking about.
The second flight he did not experience any glitches. But he did cmment on how well it tracked and responded for a kit built plane
.
While I flew it yesterday, there were no detractions, so I payed close attention.
First it started with unwanted yawing to the left (right rudder).
Second flight: outta no where came a nose down (down elevator) and a right roll (1 of the ailerons) couldn't tell which. Lucky for me it responded quickly because it wasnt but 20 feet or so above the trees.
Third flight the rolling right seemed to be more persistent.
Forth flight was more of the same rolling right.
I am keeping it nice and high and close to the field. Just in case it gliches, hopefully I can recover it before something bad happens.
Probally wont get to fly until Saturday, If the left aileron servo is't the problem, I will replace the Y-harness, then the throttle servo, and then the elevator servo and on and on.
Any one know its the Hanger9 HAN172 Digital Servo & Receiver Current Meter will check standard servos as well>??
Thxs everyone
Put the rudder servo back in
The right aileron servo back in
Put the new servo in the left aileron position (next test)
Recentered all my control surfaces
And a radio check to make sure all was working correctly.
Campgens, I had the best pilot ( in my opinion) at our field, fly my 4 star twice. He made me look not worthy
.The first flight he got an obvisous yaw to the left, when he did he said, whoa wth was that! I said yea thats what I'm talking about.
The second flight he did not experience any glitches. But he did cmment on how well it tracked and responded for a kit built plane
.While I flew it yesterday, there were no detractions, so I payed close attention.
First it started with unwanted yawing to the left (right rudder).
Second flight: outta no where came a nose down (down elevator) and a right roll (1 of the ailerons) couldn't tell which. Lucky for me it responded quickly because it wasnt but 20 feet or so above the trees.
Third flight the rolling right seemed to be more persistent.
Forth flight was more of the same rolling right.
I am keeping it nice and high and close to the field. Just in case it gliches, hopefully I can recover it before something bad happens.
Probally wont get to fly until Saturday, If the left aileron servo is't the problem, I will replace the Y-harness, then the throttle servo, and then the elevator servo and on and on.
Any one know its the Hanger9 HAN172 Digital Servo & Receiver Current Meter will check standard servos as well>??
Thxs everyone
05-29-2008, 10:34 PM
#22
Senior Member
RE: Glitches in my new 4 *
GKPAIN, I've got one more dumb question.. Is there a possibility that this is a mechanical problem? IE firewall or engine mount not tight, loose or broken hinge. Or, is it possible that you are geting flutter on one or more control surfaces. Does this happen at low throttle or only at full throttle?
Please excuse my dumb questions, but I've found that while they may not be spot on the problem, that they will spark a little different though process that will lead you to the solution. I had over 30 years experience in repairing and then being second level and third level support on large mainframe computers. I found that there are some strange interactions at times that makes a problem look like "A", but it turned out to be "Z". I mean that this could be something as dumb as the canopy lifting in flight and setteling back down on landing. I guess that what I'm saying is that all of the in the box quesions have been answered and none of those have pointed to the problem, so it's time to step out of the box now. It's going to be really interesting what the problem turns out to be. Please let us know.
Don
Please excuse my dumb questions, but I've found that while they may not be spot on the problem, that they will spark a little different though process that will lead you to the solution. I had over 30 years experience in repairing and then being second level and third level support on large mainframe computers. I found that there are some strange interactions at times that makes a problem look like "A", but it turned out to be "Z". I mean that this could be something as dumb as the canopy lifting in flight and setteling back down on landing. I guess that what I'm saying is that all of the in the box quesions have been answered and none of those have pointed to the problem, so it's time to step out of the box now. It's going to be really interesting what the problem turns out to be. Please let us know.
Don
05-29-2008, 10:49 PM
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RE: Glitches in my new 4 *
I have been following this thread with interest. So far you have done everything but the obvious. Keep in mind that it is usually something simple. We often wear ourselves out looking for something mysterious and complicated.
As best as I can tell, you have not eliminated the three most likely causes. The transmitter, receiver, and battery pack.
I see you have tested the battery on the ground. That's not the same as in the air bouncing around, because you could have an intermittantly open circuit.
The problem is now affecting more than one servo. Though it is possibly a coincidence, this would imply that the TX/RX link is getting broken. This brings us back to TX, RX, and battery back. These are the three most likely causes. IMHO
Hope this helps,
As best as I can tell, you have not eliminated the three most likely causes. The transmitter, receiver, and battery pack.
I see you have tested the battery on the ground. That's not the same as in the air bouncing around, because you could have an intermittantly open circuit.
The problem is now affecting more than one servo. Though it is possibly a coincidence, this would imply that the TX/RX link is getting broken. This brings us back to TX, RX, and battery back. These are the three most likely causes. IMHO
Hope this helps,
05-29-2008, 11:10 PM
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RE: Glitches in my new 4 *
Well during the last week I've been inspecting the plane very carefully. That's the puzzling part nothing seems to be wrong, loose, broken, wore out, bent, dirty, on and on.
When its not glitching its flys perfect, the glitch is a on/off glitch, split second and its done, but can be multiple times in a single flight.
If it turns out to be something other than the radio, which seems to be the direction its going, my first thought would be these long hinge pins in the ailerons acting like antennas and grabbing a frequency which is interferring with the receiver. Or as my father said they could be making static electricity from the air rushing around them causing the glitch. I plan on making individual pins for each hinge to eliminate that. After I've finish testing the radio componets
I only have 3 more servos, the Y-harness, and the battery to try to eliminate the complete radio system.
I am also going to pay closer attention to my other 2 planes on the same channel. They are both Hi-wing trainers but i should be able to notice this kind of glitching. My 11yr old son flys the PT-40 and have never said it has do anything weird.
Anyways if the weather is good this weekend I should have the answer.
When its not glitching its flys perfect, the glitch is a on/off glitch, split second and its done, but can be multiple times in a single flight.
If it turns out to be something other than the radio, which seems to be the direction its going, my first thought would be these long hinge pins in the ailerons acting like antennas and grabbing a frequency which is interferring with the receiver. Or as my father said they could be making static electricity from the air rushing around them causing the glitch. I plan on making individual pins for each hinge to eliminate that. After I've finish testing the radio componets
I only have 3 more servos, the Y-harness, and the battery to try to eliminate the complete radio system.
I am also going to pay closer attention to my other 2 planes on the same channel. They are both Hi-wing trainers but i should be able to notice this kind of glitching. My 11yr old son flys the PT-40 and have never said it has do anything weird.
Anyways if the weather is good this weekend I should have the answer.
05-29-2008, 11:26 PM
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RE: Glitches in my new 4 *
Flying Geezer,
Thxs for the the tips.
In an earlier post, I said, I had replaced the RX from another airplane that doesn't seem to have any issues.
This airplane the RX came from is flown with the same TX.
As for the battery I have not replaced it I know, but all the voltage checks I have done is not indicating a voltage problem. Plus the plane response imediately to the corrections I give it.
I have 3 more servos to check. If one of them isn't the problem I will replace the battery for a test. Because I mounted it behind the cockpit for balance its gonna be alil difficult to replace, but can be done.
I really thought I got a ba receiver but I can say that after replacig it and the same problem exsist.
BTW my TX has been switched on for three hours now and the battery voltage display says 9.4.
Thxs for your help
Thxs for the the tips.
In an earlier post, I said, I had replaced the RX from another airplane that doesn't seem to have any issues.
This airplane the RX came from is flown with the same TX.
As for the battery I have not replaced it I know, but all the voltage checks I have done is not indicating a voltage problem. Plus the plane response imediately to the corrections I give it.
I have 3 more servos to check. If one of them isn't the problem I will replace the battery for a test. Because I mounted it behind the cockpit for balance its gonna be alil difficult to replace, but can be done.
I really thought I got a ba receiver but I can say that after replacig it and the same problem exsist.
BTW my TX has been switched on for three hours now and the battery voltage display says 9.4.
Thxs for your help