XJet

I'm just waiting for the day that one of these "checked and stickered" sets resets to a ZGUID and shoots another similarly "checked and stickered" system down, causing major damage, injury or death.

Then the law suits will fly and Futaba's US distributor may well end up in Chapter 13 or worse.

I have to tell you that after the way Futaba has (mis) handled this and the heat issue, the US distributor really ought to be reconsidering their relationship with the company.

Any prosecuting attorney in such a damages case would only have to browse through these forums to see that the distributor has totally failed to take appropriate action to either remedy the fault or warn all users as to the levels of risk. In a court of law there'd be no defense to be had by saying "the manufacturer wouldn't tell us anything".

I used to fly Futaba for years but I'm stuffed if I'd buy a set now.

pilotpete2

Good point, but too often the transmitter that is left power on is also unattended, or even closed up in a carrying case.
Futaba has a hard nut to crack here, as almost nobody sends in the registration cards, having an on-line registration process would encourage many more to register their radios and make it very easy for the manufacturer to notify the user of a potential problem. Only a small minority of the guys I fly with follow the forums, no matter what Futaba did as far as getting the word out, there would still be too many users out there, who if you brought up the issue with they'd give you a blank stare, whataya talking about.
Where they really blew it with the Zguid problem was making receivers that would work with a zero guid. If they had done that, the problem would have been more of a nuisance and would have posed no risk to anyone.
Pete

Capt Jim

My Feedback: (168)

Another interesting thought....I wonder why our transmitters do not automatically shut down after some significant length of time with out any control input? Like maybe 15 to 30 minutes? That would surely eliminate any shutdown during a flight yet save the battery from a total meltdown. It seems as though just about every other battery operated device does this for us...why not our transmitters.
Now I know that there will be those who dont trust electronics to do these things for us, but gee...it works quite reliably in all the games and such. Just kinda makes me wonder why not.
CJ

pilotpete2

Excellent idea, now you just have to cost justify it to the "bean counters"
Pete

mongo

My Feedback: (15)

i think it was my 9V futaba that had a 30 minute "time out".

pilotpete2

I know I have seen at least one reference to a transmitter doing that, but not any specific model.
Kind of a screen saver for R/C
Pete

woodie

Most of the higher end Futaba transmitters have the automatic time out feature that shuts off the TX after beeping to warn you the sticks haven't been moved for some period of time. I beleive the default is 10 minutes.

Woodie

forrest gump

jim.my 9zap is set to default of 30 mins shutdown time...still use in the old girl yet,even after 10yrs it can still hold its own with the new radios.And of course its FASST now with a tm-8 module..what a combo....chris

4*60

My Feedback: (41)

No registration is just an excuse. If they added a note to the multi million worth of ads in the magazines etc. they would get 99.9% back fro the fix, but that would probably mess up sales for a long time so they won't do it. Nothing to do with their Japanese "masters", just plain poor business ethics IMNSHO.

DougV

Hi XJet:

Let me ask you something here, and please excuse my English.[] I fly FASST and Spektrum, I have three AR7000 receivers, one of them does not have the quick connect 1.6 update, if I put that RX on a 60 size airplane and it “lockout� and it causes as you said “major damage, injury or death�, will JR/Spektrum have the same law suits issues?

AFAIK Spektrum (Horizon) never recall the receivers, they did an update similar as what Futaba did with the ZGUID issue, and actually you have to pay shipping to get the update from Spektrum.

Like you said.., if an attorney browses these Forums for the past 18 month, they will find lots of Spektrum lock-outs issues.

Wondering mind!

Regards,
Doug.

XJet

I'd say that if Spektrum/JR have made insufficient effort to notify customers then they too have a legal liability in such cases.

Virtually all of the 2.4GHz manufacturers have had problems which they've handled very poorly (IMHO).

When a car has a manufacturing or design fault, a recall is issued because the maker knows that if they just try to pretend the problem doesn't exist, they can be sued out of existence if/when someone is hurt.

For some strange reason, RC makers seem to think they're immune to those very same laws.

Now back in the 1960s when most models were lightweight and very much underpowered compared to today's, the risk of one killing somebody was pretty remote. But today, with turbines, 160cc giant-scale and the like, the risks of being badly hurt or killed by an "out of control" model are hugely increased.

I really hope it doesn't take a death to wake up these RC manufacturers.

It's not like they aren't enjoying massively huge profits and "good times" right now. The demand for 2.4GHz has been a gift from heaven for Futaba, JR etc. Suddenly, people who might not have bothered upgrading their radios for many years are going out and buying brand-new 2.4GHz systems. That represents huge sales and massive profits. You'd think that with all that money in their pockets, they could at least afford to deal with the problems in a more ethical and responsible manner don't you?

Ah Clem

"Spread Spectrum Done Right"

Yeah, right...


Sorry, I could not resist, after all of the adds using this somewhat pompous phrase (implying that Spektrum/JR had done it wrong). If they (Futaba) had taken the time to get it right, it would have been great advertising.

Futaba has been around a very long time and can produce excellent equipment (I still have multiple Futaba radios in storage from the 1980's, which I am sure would still work if equipped with new batteries). Hopefully they will be able to address all of these things soon.

In the meantime, I will continue to use JR/Spektrum equipment.

BobH

My Feedback: (2)

I'm sorry but I have to chuckle at the phrase "massive profits". Surely you are kidding? I suspect that the RC equipment buyers don't constitute massive profits for anyone let alone a Major Mfg like JR and Futaba.

As for liability I have some (lots) of experience in that department. Here in the USA manufacturers of consumer products can and have been sued for failure to report incidences which have lead to death or serious injuries. This product is not specifically regulated here in the US as a "Regulated" product. The key wording of leading to Death or Serious injury is important. This isn't to say that such can't or won't happen but so far I don't believe it has on a 2.4 system.

We had a death at our field in 1982 caused by an out of control plane hitting a new flier and rupturing his liver. The case was settled out of court the day of the trial.

Keep in mind as well that certain activities, golf to name one, is considered to have inherent risks.

The risk of injury and or death from of all RC Products is very low compared to other products in the market place.

Joystick TX

Since it is possible for the TX to default to an unsafe mode and it has happened on two TXs at the same time on one flying field, which means it has a high probability of happening again and the root cause for it is unknown at this time, it would be great to have an alarm or message to let the operator know when the TX reverted to the default code and that there is a possible safety problem.

Personally, I would not want to fly anything with the Futaba TXs suspected of having the problem but park flyiers till they have a fix in the field that works.

Local fields need to come up with a safe way to allow two or more of the Futaba TXs to be used for controlling aircraft at the same time.

We already have enough pressure to deal with to keep our flying field, a major accident could put us out of the area for good.

By the way, the main reason for the lack of an alarm, in case the TX is left on, is cost.

It would be nice to have but most people do not leave the TX or RX on that often to justify making that a requirement.

DougV

Send you radio in to Futaba to get the fix, all it takes is 8 days and they will pay for shipping both ways.

Of course this is if you own the 6EX 2.4 or the 7C 2.4 radio.

Doug.

ira d

If you find that you have to rebind your receivers especialy more than one receiver
that could indiacate your code has been lost.

Julez

Correct. I really can't understand why Futaba does not issue a full scale recall like they did in Europe. This was not even a disadvantage for them!
The recall from robbe, the importer here, showed the customers, and potential customers, that they are able and willing to deal with it, if a problem arises concerning the new equipment. Customers felt taken serious, and a lot of the unease of people concerning the new technology disappeared. The whole recall was a net gain for robbe, and now their Fasst gear outsells XPS or Spektrum by quite a margin.

049flyer

My Feedback: (18)

Check the Airtronics RDS8000 forums and you will discover virtually no problems with that radio and an alarm on the transmitter that warns the user of inactivity for over 15 minutes.

All this for less than Spektrum or Futaba. And 8 channels.

XJet

The Airtronics does look like it's got a lot o things right.

It's just a shame that the RDS8000 is (from my perspective) too low-end for me.

From what I'm told, it doesn't even have expo on rudder!

XJet

Now one would assume that Futaba Japan gave the US distributor exactly the same information they gave Robbe in Europe.

What does that say for the way that the US distributor has (mis)handled this situation?

scott17

MO MONEY, MO MONEY,MO MONEY!!!!!!!!! Speaking of which, The 6EX could have cost 10 cents more and included a timer......One thing I really wish it had.

dumorian

My Feedback: (6)

Europe has very different laws from the US. I suspect the distributor had no choice.... which in my opinion, was how it should have been handled.

As for Futaba and the release of information. I'm appalled! You buy a $200 receiver and you don't get anything except two tiny bits of paper... one saying don't throw it in the trash... the other warning about the voltages to the servos and possible incompatibilities there. Well.... that's good! But, as for receiver installation? The only thing I have in writing from Futaba has two major errors in those 'rules'. The rest was determined by 'crash and error' and then searching and scouring throughout the web....

Just go to the Futaba website. The info on the Fasst receivers is pathetic at best. I have emailed with a question and gotten no response. I now have about three grand tied up in this system... the radio it great, but the information is horrid. I'm sorry, I should not have to go to forums on the web to figure out the cure for problems. I really shouldn't have to go to the web at all... It should damn well come with the product!! And, then when I do go to the web, I should be able to go to the horse's mouth, the Futaba website for 'facts' and not have to take a chance on what might be just gossip. Fortunately most of the information on these forums is accurate... and to date, far better than anything Futaba has published. Heck, I have to figure out how to install a receiver the right way by reading about an Airtronics installation? Something stinks. I haven't figured out just what.... but something stinks badly. Like the attitude is 'if we don't tell them, we can't be sued over stuff that doesn't do what they try as we didn't tell them to do that'.

I was lucky, that my first 'test flights' resulted in multiple crashes, but somehow the little plane managed to fall right except once. It has only cost me one wing..... $18. I sure am glad I didn't install this stuff in one of my big planes to start with! Meanwhile, the last receiver I bought, the new 617, still has no 'manual' (sheet). I guess if they don't tell us we can use this stuff in RC planes, they can't be held responsible for someone actually trying to use this in a RC plane.

I love my 12z radio. I love the interface and programming. It's manual was inclusive of running 72mhz stuff. The transmitter module had two or three paragraphs about using the 6014 receiver, of which there are two blatant errors. I guess I need to buy a new module to get better information.... but if you look hard enough, you might find an addendum on the Futaba website which covers a portion of this bad information. That is if you can find the zip file and the addendum inside of it.... still no notice to read this on the receiver page.

I'm just very angry with Futaba right now. I completely expected more from this company, especially having purchased one of it's flagship products.... but that really shouldn't matter either. Every one of their 2.4 systems should have good information available with the product and pertaining to that product. Receiver installation instructions should come with the receiver, not 'only' with a module, although it would not be a bad idea to continue including it with the module as well.

Joystick TX

Ira, you said it could indicate that your code has been lost. What else could having to rebind mean?

It seems that there is still a lot of confusion about what needs to be done and how to do it.

From what I have read so far, if a Futaba ever needs rebinding, the code has been set to the default (for some reason) and it should be sent in for repair.

pilotpete2

While I agree they should have an installation sheet with each receiver, I find it hard to imagine having to learn the proper installation by "crash and learn"[&o]
What did you have wrong that resulted in 3 crashes, inquiring minds want to know?
Pete

togatoga

My Feedback: (42)

Anyone knows why the fasst receivers generate heat while the normal 72 receivers don't. I have noticed my 617 feels a bit warm and this is not from leaving it in the sun.Or am I imagining things?