Robbidos

My Feedback: (20)

I want to see if there is interest in a model file editor that will open model files from Futaba 14MZ/12Z/12FG and/or JR 9303/10x/12x and allow editing and/or converting between any of those radios. If anyone is interested in such a utility, please let me know here. I would also need to know if anyone would be interested in helping test such a utility during development.

The utility would be able to do the following

1. Read .mdl files from Futaba 14MZ/12Z directly from memory card
2. Read .mdl files from Futaba 12FG after user moved file from memory card to harddrive using other available utilities.
3. Read model files from JR 9303/10x/12x after user moved files from radio using the PC link.
4. Allow editing all model files (to the extend I can decypher)
5. Convert model files from/to any of the above radio formats
6. Maintain database of model files and history of specific model files.
7. Generate XML file detailing model file definitions.

+ any other good features you guys can come up with.

I already have a good headstart on the Futaba file format and can already make changes to that format. Its simply a matter of mapping the location of all the radio features.

Let me know....

beto9

My Feedback: (1)

Of course I am interested in that kind of utility... please, go ahead and I will gladly test it as you go along.
I have a 12FG.
I have suggested it in the "Futaba flyers club" Website but....

Robbidos

My Feedback: (20)

That's like putting a suggestion in a bottomless pit. :-)

Zeeb

My Feedback: (41)

Interesting idea....

I will suggest that whatever you come up with, that it work with 64 bit Vista OS's?????

My big gripe about the JR DataSafe software that comes with the 12X is fine as a program and loads onto a 64 bit Vista machine, but the USB driver won't play.

The other thing if you're looking at JR stuff, evidently the hardware for the option is internal on the 12X as all you get is a USB to RC jack cable on those, where the other JR radios require an adapter on the USB plugin. The DataSafe programs are not compatible between the X9303 and the 12X.

Robbidos

My Feedback: (20)

Zeeb,

Program will be written in .net and be fully compatible on any version of Windows 2000/XP/2003/Vista/2008 and the not released Windows 7. I actually develop on Vista x64 Ultimate.

I will talk to Troy about borrowing some JR stuff and I may be able to replace the DataSafe programs for use with this program.

Actually, I'm amazed there is as little interest as what has been shown. I figured just the ability to convert file formats would garner a lot of interest for those upgrading radios and/or creating backup model files for different radios. Just think, if I'm successful, you can have a model file developed for you plane that works on your 12x and your backup 9303 radio.

Well, a number of the pattern guys have spoken up with interest so I will continue with my efforts.

uk helinut

I would be well up for that, and for the testing too. I currently have a 10x, 9x, 3810, 14MZ and my 12X should be here by next week.

As for interest, if you were to post this on the two well known Helicopter forums you would be bombarded.

Regards, Mark.

Robbidos

My Feedback: (20)

Odd. I haven't gotten one comment from my post on Helifreak.com ( http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=11348&page=3 ). Unfortunately, they won't let new members post new threads so I had to piggyback on an older similar thread. What other sites are you referring to?

beto9

My Feedback: (1)

You must be aware that there is a "Model data converter" utility to convert 12fg<->12Z<->14MZ models....
http://www.futaba-rc.com/sellsheets/index.html
Also, you can read the model files (of the 12FG at least) from the SD card but is a jumble of numbers....

Robbidos

My Feedback: (20)

Yeah, I've seen that. Pretty limited. I'm not impressed. :-) Though, that is how 12FG users will get their model information out of the memory card unless I can figure out a way to do it myself.

ww2birds

My Feedback: (14)

Great idea. I suggested to Bax on the FUT support forum that it should be "easy" to extend the conversion utility to also allow display and editing of the configs on a PC since the program already understands the formats and semantics of the data.

Go for it!!!

Dave

Robbidos

My Feedback: (20)

Actually, the Futaba format is pretty straight forward. Mapping each feature and creating an interface to edit them is simply a time consuming project. Not hard at all. I just got my first look at the JR 12x file format and that is even simpler though much weirder. Everything is stored backwards in it. Once I figure out the checksum information in it, the rest should be cake.

Kimhoff

My Feedback: (22)

Need to include the 9C!

Robbidos

My Feedback: (20)

If I'm not mistaken, the 9c , 8u, and 9z all use campac for memory and that doesn't hook up to a PC. If you can get me some files from it, send them to me and I will look at the format.

MikeL

My Feedback: (3)

.Net is a nice way to limit your sales. If it's not portable, I wouldn't purchase it. I've seen too much crapware written for .Net, and I'd much rather use my Mac. My Windows boxes don't get much use. If you're aiming at the high-end radio market, aim at the high-end consumer.

My advice would be to include radios such as the 8U, 9C, 783, and 8103. There's a market opportunity there, to make the transition to 2.4ghz much easier for those who have many stored model memories.

Robbidos

My Feedback: (20)

Well, considering Microsoft still has ~90% of the desktop market, I'm not too worried about limiting distribution of this. I certainly wouldn't limit myself to the 3% desktop market share that apple enjoys, nor would I limit myself to the Linux desktop market at less than 1%. Furthermore, I know about 30 people that fly the upper end radios of both Futaba and JR, and virtually all of them have a Windows PC. That said, I certainly don't want this thread to degrade to a PC/Mac religion war. :-) We can agree to disagree on this point.

As far as crapware, anyone can write bad software on any platform. I have 27 years of development experience and I can assure you, this won't be "Crapware".

As far as the other models you listed, if the files can be brought on to a PC, it is likely I can develop the routines to load and convert them if there is a demand. I certainly don't know about the JR models (being a Futaba guy myself), but the 8U and the 9C do not have a way to get models on a PC without building an interface or buying one from someone that developed one. I already found a source for the 8U file format so converting it would not be a problem.

I appreciate your input, Mike, and look forward to good constructive criticism from you, if you decide to try it out.

Robbidos

My Feedback: (20)

It took a few hours, but I have the JR 12x storage system figured out. They put some deceptive practices in play to make it hard to figure out, but I "stumbled" upon it. For the technically curious, they calculate a 16-bit checksum starting from offset &H10, XOR the bits, then subtract &H1111 from the result just to make it more difficult to figure out. I have also looked at the 9303 and 10x formats. They are very similar so figuring out those formats should not pose a problem either.

Basically, I am now mapping both the Futaba and JR file formats out so I can begin writing code soon.

beto9

My Feedback: (1)

Good show Robiddos!
I will keep looking at the thread to see how it goes.
At this moment of the game, even if the 12FG is easy to program, Futaba and JR should have provided a utility to do the initial programming in the computer.
I suggested in that "bottomless pit" at the Futaba Flyers Club to have the possibility of copying some common settings for all planes (say, timers and idle down and engine cut) from one model to the other. The official position is "Japan has to do it".
Still, I believe that the 12 and 14 series are a great step forward in the programming area. Pity the horrible manual(s) that repeat over and over again how to navigate the command controls rather than explaining why and how to do things.

I used to support Unix systems, who never were user friendly. I will publish from time to time "How to's" to explain the most common functions. Shortly, I had a library I could refer people to it.
Since I don't have sophisticated planes or am a sophisticated flyer I don't have opportunity to explore sophisticated settings, therefore, not learning them.

Robbidos

My Feedback: (20)

Actually, JR did make a program to modify model files on the PC. That is going to make mapping their file format a lot easier than the futaba files. For each change I have to map in the futaba files, I have to create a baseline model, load it in the radio, change the 1 setting, then retrieve it from the radio (one power cycle), just to map one setting. I will likely generate batches of identical files, load them all up and change one setting (different in each file), so I don't kill my power switch in this process :-(.

Howard

My Feedback: (55)

Robbidos,

I hope you can hear the cheering squad in the background. My desktop is a 64 bit machine and so I cannot load the hardware drivers that come with the JR 12X although I can load the Datasafe program. What I have to do is download/upload from the radio to my laptop and then move the file from the laptop to the desktop - somewhat like eating mashed potatoes through a straw. If you are looking for the average guy when you beta test then I might be a candidate. The last and only programming I have done was Fortran IV back in the middle 60's. I am pulling for you Goooooo Robbidos.

Howard

ww2birds

My Feedback: (14)

Robbidos,

... more cheering ....

Beto9 has it right, the whole payoff to having the info on a PC is the ability to do more sophisticated manipulations of the data, and give most folks a much higher "task bandwidth" since the PC interface is so much more powerful and flexible than the Tx itself.

I love his example of a "favorite starter model" config.

Dave

8178

My Feedback: (17)

Great idea Robbidos and .net is the perfect platform. After all, Microsoft owns the PC computer operating world and that's about 99% of your market.

bfreee

Rob,
Hansen Hobbies has a 256k campaq module. I own one its great. They also have an adapter to usb & some sort of file format that they direct you to that is freeware. Google Hansen Hobbies.

Robbidos

My Feedback: (20)

They haven't had enough demand to make another batch of the USB adapters. They ran out in early 2007. If someone has one and can get me some files from a 8u/9c/9z, I will be happy to see what is involved in working with them.

Robbidos

My Feedback: (20)

Ok I finally got my radio back and I'm working through the file format. For those that would like to help me map out the futaba file format, please let me know which radio you have, and which module you use? I need to know this to determine which set of files to send you to make changes to. Obviously this will be easiest for the 12z and 14mz users that have a memory card and a way to access that memory card from their computer. I figure I can use 2 good helpers in this endeavour.

JoeBagOfDonuts

I have a 14MZ with a TM-14 module I can help with. Send PM with information.

Joe