Switch nightmares
12-16-2008, 05:26 PM
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Switch nightmares
I had a crash the other day on the 3rd flight on maiden day of a mojo 40.
At the crash site I noticed the LED on the Rx was cycling off-red-green, so I thought power was intermittent.
I removed the Vampowerpro switch and the "wreckage" worked fine.
6 hours of subsuquent testing has uncovered no intermittent problems so I suspect the switch.
I took apart the switch and found the the black (negative) lead hanging on the copper trace, it came off with almost no effort.
I thought, this may be a result of the crash so it's not conclusive....
I tugged slightly on a white wire that was intact after the crash and it pulled right off, copper trace an all.
I noticed the copper traces are very thin, the wires were not inserted into the holes in the circuit board, they were just laid on top and soldered.
I also noticed the red wire is soldered to 2 lugs on one side of the DPDT switch and only one lug on the other side, so much of doubling the reliability & current
I will not use this switch again.
I took the switch in to the LHS and they offered to replace, I asked for a diferent switch, one that does not use circuit boards, just leads soldered to the switch and should be easy to verify the solder quality. I was given 2 Vampowerpro Rx heavy duty switches.
I went home and took them apart to verify quality. Both switches were wired backwards and reversed the voltage to the Rx!
I called the LHS and of course, they found this hard to believe. Heck, I find it hard to believe too!
I have no affiliation with any products, just a bit pissed about the crash though...
I will forever take apart switches!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
see photos
Gator
At the crash site I noticed the LED on the Rx was cycling off-red-green, so I thought power was intermittent.
I removed the Vampowerpro switch and the "wreckage" worked fine.
6 hours of subsuquent testing has uncovered no intermittent problems so I suspect the switch.
I took apart the switch and found the the black (negative) lead hanging on the copper trace, it came off with almost no effort.
I thought, this may be a result of the crash so it's not conclusive....
I tugged slightly on a white wire that was intact after the crash and it pulled right off, copper trace an all.
I noticed the copper traces are very thin, the wires were not inserted into the holes in the circuit board, they were just laid on top and soldered.
I also noticed the red wire is soldered to 2 lugs on one side of the DPDT switch and only one lug on the other side, so much of doubling the reliability & current
I will not use this switch again.
I took the switch in to the LHS and they offered to replace, I asked for a diferent switch, one that does not use circuit boards, just leads soldered to the switch and should be easy to verify the solder quality. I was given 2 Vampowerpro Rx heavy duty switches.
I went home and took them apart to verify quality. Both switches were wired backwards and reversed the voltage to the Rx!
I called the LHS and of course, they found this hard to believe. Heck, I find it hard to believe too!
I have no affiliation with any products, just a bit pissed about the crash though...
I will forever take apart switches!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
see photos
Gator
12-17-2008, 11:05 AM
#3
RE: Switch nightmares
Well switches can be an issue, but from what you've noted about the rx lights flashing I'm guessing it's a Futaba FASST rx?
If so, and I certainly can't say for sure as I don't use FASST, I think the flashing red/green lights indicate a signal loss. You may want to look into that possibility????
If so, and I certainly can't say for sure as I don't use FASST, I think the flashing red/green lights indicate a signal loss. You may want to look into that possibility????
12-17-2008, 11:50 AM
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RE: Switch nightmares
Futaba FASST receiver light and what they mean:
LED status vs receiver's condition:
No signal reception Red : On
Receiving signals Green: On
Receiving signals, but ID is unmatched. Green: Blink
Unrecoverable failure (EEPROM, etc.) Red and Green turn on alternatively.
LED status vs receiver's condition:
No signal reception Red : On
Receiving signals Green: On
Receiving signals, but ID is unmatched. Green: Blink
Unrecoverable failure (EEPROM, etc.) Red and Green turn on alternatively.
12-17-2008, 06:04 PM
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RE: Switch nightmares
ORIGINAL: Silent-AV8R
Futaba FASST receiver light and what they mean:
LED status vs receiver's condition:
No signal reception Red : On
Receiving signals Green: On
Receiving signals, but ID is unmatched. Green: Blink
Unrecoverable failure (EEPROM, etc.) Red and Green turn on alternatively.
Futaba FASST receiver light and what they mean:
LED status vs receiver's condition:
No signal reception Red : On
Receiving signals Green: On
Receiving signals, but ID is unmatched. Green: Blink
Unrecoverable failure (EEPROM, etc.) Red and Green turn on alternatively.
when I plugged battery directly, it went from dark to red to green, and stayed green as it should
test flew perfectly with a foamy 3 flights today, no problem, different switch (different plane too....)
Gator
12-17-2008, 07:42 PM
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RE: Switch nightmares
Well Zeeb....Can't hang that one on Futaba.....although we all know that you wanted to[sm=cry_smile.gif]
Never pass up a chance, do you?
Greg
Never pass up a chance, do you?
Greg
12-18-2008, 12:09 PM
#7
RE: Switch nightmares
ORIGINAL: OldRookie
Well Zeeb....Can't hang that one on Futaba.....although we all know that you wanted to[sm=cry_smile.gif]
Never pass up a chance, do you?
Greg
Well Zeeb....Can't hang that one on Futaba.....although we all know that you wanted to[sm=cry_smile.gif]
Never pass up a chance, do you?
Greg
Trying to diagnose the cause of a crash is/can be difficult and as one who narrowly avoided losing a 50cc gasser to a failing switch, I know they can be a problem. Flashing lights on a Futaba FASST system can mean different things as Silent-AV8R was kind enough to point out as well as what they mean, which is something I didn't know and the OP is obviously interested in knowing from his subsequent post.
Do you even know what an EEPROM is or the possible significance of an issue with that????
I suggest that if you can't make a contribution to solving the OP's issue, you go back to keeping your head inside your orange T-shirt.
12-18-2008, 01:22 PM
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RE: Switch nightmares
After a switch issue that nearly cost me an expensive plane, I went to the JR Deluxe Gold switch. They are a little more expensive (about $15 each), but are bulletproof. Its all that I use now.
I fly mostly futaba stuff, but love the JR switch, so I have no bias.
I fly mostly futaba stuff, but love the JR switch, so I have no bias.
12-18-2008, 01:22 PM
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RE: Switch nightmares
Hi!
Well! There are better things than mechanical switches. Use an electronic switch instead!!
I have been using one of these (there are several different versions) in my Q-500 racer this year and it works perfectly.
Well! There are better things than mechanical switches. Use an electronic switch instead!!
I have been using one of these (there are several different versions) in my Q-500 racer this year and it works perfectly.
12-18-2008, 03:03 PM
#11
RE: Switch nightmares
ORIGINAL: jaka
Hi!
Well! There are better things than mechanical switches. Use an electronic switch instead!!
I have been using one of these (there are several different versions) in my Q-500 racer this year and it works perfectly.
Hi!
Well! There are better things than mechanical switches. Use an electronic switch instead!!
I have been using one of these (there are several different versions) in my Q-500 racer this year and it works perfectly.
i'd like to try one of these.............do you have a link to the website?
are they available here in the US?
thx
-mike
12-18-2008, 06:28 PM
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RE: Switch nightmares
Try these. I have been using them for years without a single problem. Note the dual switch which lets you use parallel batteries with a dual section switch.
http://www.qualityrcproducts.com/prod_superrocker.html
http://www.qualityrcproducts.com/prod_superrocker.html
12-18-2008, 10:55 PM
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RE: Switch nightmares
You read through the original post of this thread, and point out that the flashing lights on the receiver may mean something.
He had already said that the had removed the switch from the set up, tested it for 6 hours, and it worked fine. He said that he then took the switch apart and found that the solder joints to the circuit board trace were bad, the trace material pulled off the board, and the wires weren't soldered in the holes. The only reason he had signal loss was due to no power to the receiver. He was certainly on the right track with his troubleshooting of the problem.
So how did you manage to segway from that, to it probably being the FASST receiver having signal loss problems?
I think your intentions are perfectly clear here.
Yes I do own 2 orange shirts and wear them proudly. It is people like you that insist that the only radio in the world for everyone is a JR. I don't have a problem with JR, but prefer Futaba. I have seen numerous threads that you participated in, that had nothing to do with JR, but you are always there getting down on Futaba, and telling them JR would have been a better choice. All a person has to do is go back and look at some of the threads you participated in.
This also serves no purpose, and doesn't help resolve a situation.
I brought it up to point out that you certainly weren't a creditable person to listen to about Futaba equipment. You even said it yourself in your reply to my post, that you didn't fly FASST equipment, and you couldn't say for sure what the flashing lights meant. If so, why were you even replying to this persons question, other than to diss Futaba?
You may think I am a schmuk....but I know URNASS!!!
Greg
He had already said that the had removed the switch from the set up, tested it for 6 hours, and it worked fine. He said that he then took the switch apart and found that the solder joints to the circuit board trace were bad, the trace material pulled off the board, and the wires weren't soldered in the holes. The only reason he had signal loss was due to no power to the receiver. He was certainly on the right track with his troubleshooting of the problem.
So how did you manage to segway from that, to it probably being the FASST receiver having signal loss problems?
I think your intentions are perfectly clear here.
Yes I do own 2 orange shirts and wear them proudly. It is people like you that insist that the only radio in the world for everyone is a JR. I don't have a problem with JR, but prefer Futaba. I have seen numerous threads that you participated in, that had nothing to do with JR, but you are always there getting down on Futaba, and telling them JR would have been a better choice. All a person has to do is go back and look at some of the threads you participated in.
This also serves no purpose, and doesn't help resolve a situation.
I brought it up to point out that you certainly weren't a creditable person to listen to about Futaba equipment. You even said it yourself in your reply to my post, that you didn't fly FASST equipment, and you couldn't say for sure what the flashing lights meant. If so, why were you even replying to this persons question, other than to diss Futaba?
You may think I am a schmuk....but I know URNASS!!!
Greg
12-19-2008, 12:27 AM
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RE: Switch nightmares
the majority of crashes do occur from either a faulty switch such as bad connections or the switch was never turned to the full on position also rx battery power can be a let down if voltage drops to a certain level and using digital servos.
12-19-2008, 01:58 AM
#15
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RE: Switch nightmares
ORIGINAL: OldRookie
You read through the original post of this thread, and point out that the flashing lights on the receiver may mean something.
He had already said that the had removed the switch from the set up, tested it for 6 hours, and it worked fine. He said that he then took the switch apart and found that the solder joints to the circuit board trace were bad, the trace material pulled off the board, and the wires weren't soldered in the holes. The only reason he had signal loss was due to no power to the receiver. He was certainly on the right track with his troubleshooting of the problem.
So how did you manage to segway from that, to it probably being the FASST receiver having signal loss problems?
I think your intentions are perfectly clear here.
Yes I do own 2 orange shirts and wear them proudly. It is people like you that insist that the only radio in the world for everyone is a JR. I don't have a problem with JR, but prefer Futaba. I have seen numerous threads that you participated in, that had nothing to do with JR, but you are always there getting down on Futaba, and telling them JR would have been a better choice. All a person has to do is go back and look at some of the threads you participated in.
This also serves no purpose, and doesn't help resolve a situation.
I brought it up to point out that you certainly weren't a creditable person to listen to about Futaba equipment. You even said it yourself in your reply to my post, that you didn't fly FASST equipment, and you couldn't say for sure what the flashing lights meant. If so, why were you even replying to this persons question, other than to diss Futaba?
You may think I am a schmuk....but I know URNASS!!!
Greg
You read through the original post of this thread, and point out that the flashing lights on the receiver may mean something.
He had already said that the had removed the switch from the set up, tested it for 6 hours, and it worked fine. He said that he then took the switch apart and found that the solder joints to the circuit board trace were bad, the trace material pulled off the board, and the wires weren't soldered in the holes. The only reason he had signal loss was due to no power to the receiver. He was certainly on the right track with his troubleshooting of the problem.
So how did you manage to segway from that, to it probably being the FASST receiver having signal loss problems?
I think your intentions are perfectly clear here.
Yes I do own 2 orange shirts and wear them proudly. It is people like you that insist that the only radio in the world for everyone is a JR. I don't have a problem with JR, but prefer Futaba. I have seen numerous threads that you participated in, that had nothing to do with JR, but you are always there getting down on Futaba, and telling them JR would have been a better choice. All a person has to do is go back and look at some of the threads you participated in.
This also serves no purpose, and doesn't help resolve a situation.
I brought it up to point out that you certainly weren't a creditable person to listen to about Futaba equipment. You even said it yourself in your reply to my post, that you didn't fly FASST equipment, and you couldn't say for sure what the flashing lights meant. If so, why were you even replying to this persons question, other than to diss Futaba?
You may think I am a schmuk....but I know URNASS!!!
Greg
Ah Greg, it seems that you and me are a few that reads the post as a statement of facts rather that an opinoin of which switch, in this case, is better.
As you stated, Grator did a proper trouble shooting and I agree with him that the switch should not have failed in a way shown in the photos. I have destroyed a couple planes in the last couple years and even the ones that the wires were torn off the switches, the switch was intact. His photos clearly show a land patern that seperated from the PC board and also showed a major design flaw in the switch. The hole are for the wires to go through the board and then attach to the land pattern on the board. These bozos soldered the wires to the land pattern with no mechanical support. Sent the switch back to the source and demand a replacement for both the swithch and all you lost in the failure. What a poor manufacturing failure.
Don
12-19-2008, 02:08 AM
#16
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RE: Switch nightmares
My god, I closely looked at the photo again. What a mess. In addition to the wires not going through the PC board, but being soldered directly to the board lands. there are several ares that there is no solder to the pins, swithch pins from the looks. as well as the black wire in the upper right. Absolutely trash work. Ask, no demand a full refund for all you lost. What a piece of junk work.
"my lawyer will be talking to your lawyer" comes to mind here. A 5 year old that has never been shown a soldering iron could do better work.
People, make a note of this. DO NOT BUY this companys product.
Don
"my lawyer will be talking to your lawyer" comes to mind here. A 5 year old that has never been shown a soldering iron could do better work.
People, make a note of this. DO NOT BUY this companys product.
Don
12-21-2008, 04:01 PM
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RE: Switch nightmares
ORIGINAL: GBR2
The heavy duty switch from Electrodynamics is pretty good. You can check it out on their website.
The heavy duty switch from Electrodynamics is pretty good. You can check it out on their website.
http://electrodynam.com/rc/ultraswitch/compare.shtml
While they appear to be better, they appear to solder to trace without inserting in hole, I'm not a fan of that technique.
I'm gonna stick with the switches that wire batt,chg,& Rx directly to switch or go with one of the fails-to-on switches.
thx
Gator
12-21-2008, 04:43 PM
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RE: Switch nightmares
Check these guys out. I have no connection with them other than using their switches in RC planes. I have used them for several years without a bit of trouble in a high vibration envionment. I especially like their dual switch which you can use with a dual battery back or simply parallel it with a single pack
http://www.qualityrcproducts.com
http://www.qualityrcproducts.com
12-21-2008, 05:24 PM
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RE: Switch nightmares
Hi!
Here is the link to the German company ACT who make electronic switches!
http://www.acteurope.de/
http://www.acteurope.de/html/dsl-stromversorgung.html
Here is the link to the German company ACT who make electronic switches!
http://www.acteurope.de/
http://www.acteurope.de/html/dsl-stromversorgung.html
