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Originally Posted by Hyjinx
(Post 12683614)
Thanks JimYou tube has been the best source of help. I have achieved a few mixes but it is really difficult for me Once I get a mix I want I can transfer it to other models screen by screen. I have two radios so I can side by side my screens or email myself the set of screens attaching image sets of mixes for future use.
Sort of a crazy go around of the real trouble. I am a brick when it comes to computers and the logic they operate in.Thanks for your thoughts. Aaron. Also, watch a video on how to install and use the GUI called: OpenTx Companion. |
Ted,
I followed your instructions closely and set up the throttle on my tug plane with total success. It works fine now. Thanks again for describing it in so much detail. Jim.
Originally Posted by tedsander
(Post 12593767)
Not normally needed. Throttle can be a challenge. This is where electrics have a huge advantage - they usually just work with using the most basic setup.
With the most basic setup (Input = 100%, normal trim, Mixer=100%, Outputs=+/- 100) with the stick at the bottom and trim centered, you get the furthest the servo can move (it hits the limit set in outputs). Moving trim lever down does nothing additional. Moving the trim up from center, however does start to move the servo in the other direction. Same happens at the top end, in reverse (you can't use trim to get a little more throttle, but the trim will reduce it). Ticking the "idle trim only" box changes that. The top end stick goes as far as the output will let it. Trim has no effect at all in that stick position. But, moving the stick all the way down, with trim centered, the servo doesn't quite get to the full extent defined in outputs. This leaves room for the trim lever to add or subtract, to adjust the idle up or down. So: tick the box. Then adjust your output max so that with the stick full up, the carb is fully open. Move the stick and the trim all the way down. Adjust the output min so the carb is completely closed. This position, for most engines, will result in killing them. (Although I have some gas engines that refuse to die, so an alternative kill switch has to be used for the ignition). If you've been living a charmed life, some trim setting at low stick will result in a reasonable carb opening for starting, and you can use the trim to get the perfect low idle. When done flying, move the stick and the trim all the way down to kill the engine (or just use low stick and your kill switch, if you have one). The challenging bits: 1. Servo reversing. Use the "INV" option in Outputs, if needed. This is where I get the most balled up - between +/- in the inputs, mixer, the min/max settings, and the "INV" it is real easy to lose track of which positive and negative changes what. 2. "Lopsided" output min and max. I try to keep the + and - numbers sort of in the same range. Having -150% one way, and +5% the other would be an illustration. That gives 150+5 or 155% of total range. Change the pushrod length to get it closer to the ideal of +/- 77.5% in this example, but don't be too concerned, -85 and +70 is much better, and would work fine too. Getting the numbers closer to each other helps avoid an excessive amount of non-linear motion introduced by the transmitter. 3. Mismatch between throttle arm and servo arm lengths. Many times the throttle arm is very short, so pretty small servo movements change the throttle a lot. One wants the best resolution by using most of the servo movement, so there can be a lot of fiddling with arm lengths. I've at times had to make new, or extensions, for the carb arm, as sometimes the required servo arm is impossibly short. An indication of that would be your output range would be very small - for example, -20 to +5. 4. Linearity not caused by the TX - engine rpm doesn't track with the carb opening. And servo rotation doesn't produce a linear output, either. If the initial setup just needs moderate adjustment, then using a curve for the input will get the stick position to produce the desired rpm's at different settings. I've started to adjust linkage so with the stick all the way up, and the carb all the way open, the servo arm is placed pointing forward, almost in line (but not quite) with the centerline of the aircraft. This would then be "max" in outputs. Then the min would be whatever it takes to pull the throttle arm all the way closed. The two non-linear things (carb opening and servo rotation) sort of cancel each other out. Emphasis on the "sort of". And then I fine tune with a curve, if used at all. 5. Not enough trim, typically max trim might give an idle that is still too low. Now things get interesting! a) If you have a seperate kill switch, play with changing the output min to give an acceptable trim range. If no kill switch, do the same and consider using the "evil" Special Function Override as one, but since it is an override, fine tune the percent to just close the carb completely. Using it blindly could force the servo to move way too far past the limit set in the output, damaging the servo. To loop back - I haven't encountered a situation yet where I need to adjust the offset for throttle, and very rarely, if ever, need to think about weight. Things are pretty well taken care of by adjusting the output min and max. Note too that servo center doesn't really enter into the above at all, either.b) Perhaps experiment with having the trim portion of the servo movement happen closer to where the servo arm is at 90 degrees to the servo - this is where the greatest amount of linear change happens, effectively increasing the total amount of trim available. But, this has to be balanced with what effect it has on the main stick induced movement. c) Or, we move beyond the scope of this note, and think about setting the throttle up to not use trim directly at all...and address the issue by substituting a line in mixing that uses the trim lever as a source (since we can then fine tune how much authority it has).....but that gets complicated, especially when trying to emulate the "idle trim only" check box. And you thought the answer was going to be short..... Hope you all are not being hit too hard by Covid. So far, my state is very low. Still, we're on stay-at-home. No flying for me. But my daughter is in Brooklyn NY, right in the belly of the beast, but staying safe. Ted |
Originally Posted by tedsander
(Post 12683628)
Let's cover a few basics.
The strength, but also the weakness, of OpenTX is its flexibility. Because you can almost do anything, a lot is dependent on what you did before. So what you have to start with may be very different that what someone else used as a base, making it difficult to only take parts of what they did. Better to learn how the parts work together, so you can tune it to your particular setup. So, some basics: 1. All sticks/switches/knobs/sliders on the radio are generically referred to as "Sources". They all send values ranging from -100 to +100 to the rest of the system. Switches only send two or three (-100,0,+100 or -100 and +100). The rest are variable for the whole range, depending on their position. 2, INPUTS is a list that allows you to create a new Source, based on one of the above. a. If you do not need to change the behavior of a stick/switch/knob/slider at all, it does not have to be listed here. It can be, but is not required. 3. MIXING - very basicb. It is just a numbered list. Within the numbering, it does not matter what order the items are listed. Meaning, as an example, "Ail" does not have to be first, "Ele" second, etc. You can put them anywhere on the list you like. c. For any one number on the list, you can create multiple lines to have different behaviors for the base Source - two different rates, for example. d. So, as an example, if your Aileron stick moves the Aileron servo too much, you create an INPUT that tells it to cut the throw to 70% of normal. You can add a second line to also tell it to cut things by 50%. Which line to use would then also have a switch defined, so you can select it while flying. e. Note that you now have two Aileron Sources! The original stick, and the one listed under INPUTS. One needs to pay attention to which one is used, later in Mixing. They may appear to have only slightly different names or symbols used in later lists. a. This links a source from above to a channel on your receiver. Again, basic order doesn't matter, as long as you plug the correct servo into the correct slot on your receiver. If Elevator is on the list for #1, then the Elevator servo must be plugged into the first channel slot on the receiver. Some receivers do not number their slots, but use letters for the default control. If yours has the first one labeled "A" and you want to connect the aileron servo there, then in Mixing you should list Ail in the #1 position. (but if you have already defined Elevator for #1 in mixing, as long as you plug the elevator servo into the "A" (first) slot, it will still work!) 4. MIXING - true mixing (we'll assume you have the above all set and working for the basic channels)b. Make sure you are using the source you want. The original Source, or the modified one defined in the INPUTS list. c. Generally, for basic controls, do not change the amount of movement (the "weight") without good reason. Leave at 100%. If you need more or less, change it in INPUTS. Not wrong if you do, but can make things confusing if things don't work like you think they should. a, By defining multiple lines for one channel, you can use two different Sources to move one servo. We'll use Ail to Rudder, like might be done on a Piper Cub, as an example. Of course there are many more options that allow you to highly modify things. But once you grasp the basic framework of how things effect each other, you can start to build from basic mixing, to very complex setups.b. The description is "When I move the aileron stick, I want the rudder to also move a little bit". c. Since it is the Rudder to be moved, go to the Rudder channel line in the MIXER. Add a second line, define it to use as a Source the Aileron control (probably the one you defined in Inputs, so that this also uses the rates defined there, rather than the base Aileron stick). d. Since the Ail was defined to be cut down to 70% (or 50%) in INPUTS in our example, now moving the stick will do the same for both Aileron AND Rudder! e. If this is too much rudder movement when the Ail stick is used, you can reduce the "weight" on that mixer line to give the further reduction you want. This is one of those good reasons to change the weight. f. On that same line, you can define a switch position if you want, to be able to turn it on or off in flight. So much clarity here. Thank you SirAaron- |
Originally Posted by Hyjinx
(Post 12683738)
Hey TedGod bless you. Using your time helping others like me is Christlike. I think with this tutoring, I may be finally able to utilize this radio to it's better potentials.
So much clarity here. Thank you SirAaron- If you have an Input with a weight of 100 (and no other parameters used), that is exactly the same as what is coming directly from the base Source. If you make the weight 70%, then the result is to take the base source amount times 70% - your servo will only move +/- 70% of what it did. If you then use that Input over in Mixing, and there make the weight 25%, it will multiply the amount coming from the Inputs source times 25%. So now the servo will only move a maximum of 70 x 25%, which is +/- 17.5. A small slice of it's normal full range of +/- 100. If you have an Input line of 50%, and switch to that while flying, now the mixer will produce 50 x 25%, or 12.5 - An even smaller amount. That may be what you want to happen, if so, great! But in some instances you may not want the mix result to vary with your dual rates - hence one reason you can select as a Source either the basic stick, or the similarly named Input. Note that when playing with weights you can go negative both in Inputs and in the Mixer! This reverses the result! You'll see many examples of this elsewhere. Not at all wrong, but between multiplying percent's and the changing of the signs, the math can get confounding. Hence why I generally recommend changing the servo direction by using the "inverse" arrow symbol over on the outputs page. Then one tends to keep most of the weights positive, to make the math simpler. But, there are times to go negative, like mixing elevator for rudder application in knife edge - right rudder may need positive elevator, and left need negative elevator (highly dependent on what bad behavior you are trying to mix out for a specific plane). Finally - by default (and there are options here too!) mixing is additive. So in our Ail to Rud example, if you move the Rudder and Ail sticks all the way, you could end up with telling the rudder to move 100% PLUS the 17.5% from the Ail Input. While this example is not extreme, there are other instances where it could be a very large amount. That could damage your servo if it tried to move too far. Hence the hard limits over on the OUTPUTS tab. It will stop anything from exceeding 100. Normally you can't even increase them beyond that number....but there is an "Extend Limits" checkbox on the Setup page, so if you then want to increase the hard limit to be, say 125 to accommodate the rudder example, you can (if you know it is safe to tell the servo to turn that far). |
Originally Posted by tedsander
(Post 12683771)
I would be remiss if I didn't mention a bit more:
If you have an Input with a weight of 100 (and no other parameters used), that is exactly the same as what is coming directly from the base Source. If you make the weight 70%, then the result is to take the base source amount times 70% - your servo will only move +/- 70% of what it did. If you then use that Input over in Mixing, and there make the weight 25%, it will multiply the amount coming from the Inputs source times 25%. So now the servo will only move a maximum of 70 x 25%, which is +/- 17.5. A small slice of it's normal full range of +/- 100. If you have an Input line of 50%, and switch to that while flying, now the mixer will produce 50 x 25%, or 12.5 - An even smaller amount. That may be what you want to happen, if so, great! But in some instances you may not want the mix result to vary with your dual rates - hence one reason you can select as a Source either the basic stick, or the similarly named Input. Note that when playing with weights you can go negative both in Inputs and in the Mixer! This reverses the result! You'll see many examples of this elsewhere. Not at all wrong, but between multiplying percent's and the changing of the signs, the math can get confounding. Hence why I generally recommend changing the servo direction by using the "inverse" arrow symbol over on the outputs page. Then one tends to keep most of the weights positive, to make the math simpler. But, there are times to go negative, like mixing elevator for rudder application in knife edge - right rudder may need positive elevator, and left need negative elevator (highly dependent on what bad behavior you are trying to mix out for a specific plane). Finally - by default (and there are options here too!) mixing is additive. So in our Ail to Rud example, if you move the Rudder and Ail sticks all the way, you could end up with telling the rudder to move 100% PLUS the 17.5% from the Ail Input. While this example is not extreme, there are other instances where it could be a very large amount. That could damage your servo if it tried to move too far. Hence the hard limits over on the OUTPUTS tab. It will stop anything from exceeding 100. Normally you can't even increase them beyond that number....but there is an "Extend Limits" checkbox on the Setup page, so if you then want to increase the hard limit to be, say 125 to accommodate the rudder example, you can (if you know it is safe to tell the servo to turn that far). |
Just to blow your mind...there are other "sources" that can be used. For powered airplane guys, they aren't quite as common, but many others find them very useful.
a. Don't forget a switch is a source too, and not just used for turning things on and off. You could use one directly for something that needs just two or three positions - landing gear, flaps, etc., or use it as a base for making a modified Input. b. Trim levers can be sources! Same behavior as the others, beyond their standard use as trims. Yes, you could have something else be the trim (or not have any active trim at all), and then use the trim levers for other things, if you wanted. c. Channels can be sources! This is always hard for me to grasp - you could have something happening on CH 10 in Mixing, and then also use it as a control for another channel (or as a base for Inputs). Some sailplane guys use this a lot for some of the really complicated setups they desire. d. Logical Switches (essentially tiny programs that say "If this is true, allow something to happen") can be used as a source as well as being a switch.. e. LUA programs (more complicated actual programming) can be used as a source. This one gets very deep into the system, and likely less that 1/100th% of all users ever do something with it. f. Finally, there is the special one "MAX" - can be pretty useful at times where you want to make sure the starting point is always +100, and never changes. There seems to always be at least 3 different ways to do the same thing. But I have, for example, used this as a source for flaps, and then in Mixing have three lines governing how much to change the base amount MAX starts with. But there are many wildly different ways to do flaps, depending on your plane/other radio settings. It's easy to get overwhelmed by all the possibilities, and lost in the "Should I do it this way, or that way? Start very basic, and work your way up. The link Jim provided will give more detail about what each of the options does. As you explore, you'll find yourself thinking "Ah Ha! I can use that to do...." Not knowing where you are, I would also HIGHLY recommend the manuals sold by Aloft Hobbies here in the states. Written by an Aussie, Lothar Thole, so may be available from other sources for other countries. Don't worry if there isn't one for your exact radio - get the one that seems closest to what you have. Almost everything is applicable. |
Since I'm on a roll, and there is a major thunderstorm happening right now...
Let's do an example of two ways to tackle the problem of unwanted pitch in knife edge flight. For this, I'll assume that the basic four channels are set up and working. Our plane wants to pitch to the canopy,, no matter which way the rudder is moved, when on knife edge. #1 - Go to the Elevator channel in mixing, add a line, and use Rudder Input as the source (since when we move the Rudder control we want the Elevator to move, and be proportional to whatever dual rates we have added). #2 -In the part of that set of options, go to the "Curve" definition, and instead pick "Func" from the short list. From the options next to it, pick "x>0". This translates to "If the main control has a value greater than 0, proportionally apply the new Source". Try it out, and you'll find that the rudder stick moves the Elevator down, but only when the Rudder stick is moved to the right. Nothing happens when giving left rudder. So create a third line, but this time use "x<0". Now you always get down Elevator, no matter which direction the Rudder moves. From there, change the weights as desired to reduce the amount of elevator applied. If you go negative on one (or both) weights, then the elevator will move up, rather than down. Add a switch, if you like, to turn on and off. First go to CURVES. Set up a 3 point curve with values of 100, 0, and 100 (both positive numbers). It will look like a "V". And I'm sure there are other just as valid ways to solve the problem....Now create a new line in MIXING for the Elevator, using Rudder Input as a source. This time, instead of "Func", select "Curve". Then select the curve number you created above (probably #1). Boom - the elevator moves the same way, no matter which way you move the Rudder. The stick at neutral is sending "0" (the horizontal axis). As it moves on the curve right or left, the vertical value follows the "V" line to determine how much elevator to apply. You can change the values of one or both endpoints of the curve to be negative, which will make the elevator go up, rather than down. Same as going negative for weight. Here's where combining negatives and positives can get to be a bit confusing to track, since a negative weight and a negative curve value would make the outcome the same as keeping everything positive. You can also change the "100" values on the curve to cut down the maximum amount of Elevator applied. Using 10 and 10 rather than 100 and 100 would be the same as defining the Weight to be 10%. Or get yourself really confused by changing weight AND the end points of the curve - since they both would effect the outcome. So 10% weight and 10% max on the curve, would result in the elevator only moving .10 x .10 or 1 percent! But you see what I mean about one person's way to do something may get sticky when trying to apply it to another person's setup! |
Originally Posted by tedsander
(Post 12683940)
Since I'm on a roll, and there is a major thunderstorm happening right now...
Let's do an example of two ways to tackle the problem of unwanted pitch in knife edge flight. For this, I'll assume that the basic four channels are set up and working. Our plane wants to pitch to the canopy,, no matter which way the rudder is moved, when on knife edge. #1 - Go to the Elevator channel in mixing, add a line, and use Rudder Input as the source (since when we move the Rudder control we want the Elevator to move, and be proportional to whatever dual rates we have added). #2 -In the part of that set of options, go to the "Curve" definition, and instead pick "Func" from the short list. From the options next to it, pick "x>0". This translates to "If the main control has a value greater than 0, proportionally apply the new Source". Try it out, and you'll find that the rudder stick moves the Elevator down, but only when the Rudder stick is moved to the right. Nothing happens when giving left rudder. So create a third line, but this time use "x<0". Now you always get down Elevator, no matter which direction the Rudder moves. From there, change the weights as desired to reduce the amount of elevator applied. If you go negative on one (or both) weights, then the elevator will move up, rather than down. Add a switch, if you like, to turn on and off. First go to CURVES. Set up a 3 point curve with values of 100, 0, and 100 (both positive numbers). It will look like a "V". And I'm sure there are other just as valid ways to solve the problem....Now create a new line in MIXING for the Elevator, using Rudder Input as a source. This time, instead of "Func", select "Curve". Then select the curve number you created above (probably #1). Boom - the elevator moves the same way, no matter which way you move the Rudder. The stick at neutral is sending "0" (the horizontal axis). As it moves on the curve right or left, the vertical value follows the "V" line to determine how much elevator to apply. You can change the values of one or both endpoints of the curve to be negative, which will make the elevator go up, rather than down. Same as going negative for weight. Here's where combining negatives and positives can get to be a bit confusing to track, since a negative weight and a negative curve value would make the outcome the same as keeping everything positive. You can also change the "100" values on the curve to cut down the maximum amount of Elevator applied. Using 10 and 10 rather than 100 and 100 would be the same as defining the Weight to be 10%. Or get yourself really confused by changing weight AND the end points of the curve - since they both would effect the outcome. So 10% weight and 10% max on the curve, would result in the elevator only moving .10 x .10 or 1 percent! But you see what I mean about one person's way to do something may get sticky when trying to apply it to another person's setup! |
Just to also echo Jim's excellent advice - look into downloading Companion to your computer. It is a great tool for "playing" with the radio settings. I almost always have the bar graph for each channel displayed, and use the built-in simulator to make sure when I move a control, the servos will behave the way I want.
I'll set up an entire plane in Companion, then download to the radio (there are a couple of "gotchas" to be aware of, so first review how to make backups of everything on the radio!) But I also use it to test out things, to make sure it works like I think it should. I had it open, and used it to verify that what I said in the above hints and tips actually worked as I wrote them. |
Originally Posted by tedsander
(Post 12684011)
Just to also echo Jim's excellent advice - look into downloading Companion to your computer. It is a great tool for "playing" with the radio settings. I almost always have the bar graph for each channel displayed, and use the built-in simulator to make sure when I move a control, the servos will behave the way I want.
I'll set up an entire plane in Companion, then download to the radio (there are a couple of "gotchas" to be aware of, so first review how to make backups of everything on the radio!) But I also use it to test out things, to make sure it works like I think it should. I had it open, and used it to verify that what I said in the above hints and tips actually worked as I wrote them. Can't figure out how to upload to the full memory chip between my dumbo ears. LolUpgrading or updating my radios typically leads to a bill from Wayne at aloft to fix it after I bricked it. I own two so I can have a working unit. I will probably stay on 2.2.2 forever. He put it in successfuly for me the last time I tried and failed. With the information you guys have already sent, I am getting on top of this device. Again thanks |
Originally Posted by Hyjinx
(Post 12684023)
I bought a laptop for companion as I compute from the cloud now and couldn't use it on a Chromebook. ( Or figure out how anyway)I have it and have used it to some extent. I am so bad with computers the gotchas you mentioned are walls to me. I am sort of stuck in the seventies and resistive to updating my old mental software.
Can't figure out how to upload to the full memory chip between my dumbo ears. LolUpgrading or updating my radios typically leads to a bill from Wayne at aloft to fix it after I bricked it. I own two so I can have a working unit. I will probably stay on 2.2.2 forever. He put it in successfuly for me the last time I tried and failed. With the information you guys have already sent, I am getting on top of this device. Again thanks I am back to a wall. I create a model on the Taranis plus running 2.2.2 software aloft put in it with the default wizard. It places flaps on the mix screen linked to sa. When the switch is toggled I get a first position flap engagement less than 100% deflection. Toggle again and a second full flap engagement. In the edit screen created I can not adjust deflection with the weight or differential options. Can't change deflection in either of the switch default settings. Lost again. But I do have the manual on the way from aloft lol. |
Originally Posted by Hyjinx
(Post 12684934)
Ok Guys
I am back to a wall. I create a model on the Taranis plus running 2.2.2 software aloft put in it with the default wizard. It places flaps on the mix screen linked to sa. When the switch is toggled I get a first position flap engagement less than 100% deflection. Toggle again and a second full flap engagement. In the edit screen created I can not adjust deflection with the weight or differential options. Can't change deflection in either of the switch default settings. Lost again. But I do have the manual on the way from aloft lol. Well, this might be a bit hard to work through, as 2.2.2 is now pretty old. I'm working from 2.3.12, so hope it is "close enough". I'm typing what Companion shows, so what you see on the radio screen will be a bit different, but should have the same information. In Mixing, for the flap channel, mine made with the wizard has only the two lines: MAX Weight(+100%) Switch(SA↑) This potentially gives you THREE flap positions - Full up (no flaps), partial flap, and full down flaps.MAX Weight(-100%) Switch(SA↓) "MAX" is a special source, saying, "always use +100 to start the math" So the first line says "If SA↑, take 100 * +100% and therefore move the servo as far as the hard limit ("max") will let it, as set on the Outputs page". The second line says "If SA↓, take 100 * -100% and therefore move the servo as far as the other hard limit ("min") will let it, as set on the Outputs page". Because nothing is defined for the middle position (SA -), it defaults to telling the servo "just go to the center". Same as if you plugged it into a channel that was never defined in Mixing at all. So ideally, one would have the linkage on the plane set for one switch position (up or down) to be no flaps with the servo rotated to the max one way. Flipping the switch all the other way (down instead of up, or vice versa) would tell the servo to move as far as possible the other way, giving full down flap. With the servo centered for partial flap for the middle switch position. On mine, reducing the Weight on either of the above two lines does then reduce how far the servo moves - using 50%, and the flaps won't come up all the way or go down all the way (depending on which line was changed). Going above 100% weight produces no change for either, because of the hard limit over on the Outputs. So one can reduce the high side, if needed, to get exactly "0" flap, and reduce the low if the flaps go down too far. But initially you can't get more in either direction. But, before we get into how to fix, tell me a bit more about your setup: 1. Do you have the above two similar entries? If not, what settings did yours do for you? 2. Single servo drives both flaps? 3. What is wrong for the current setup - They don't fully retract? They don't deploy far enough/or go too far? The mid-flap position is too much/too little. Or some combination of these? How out of whack are they - a little, a lot? 4. How hard/easy is it to adjust the linkage - length, adjuster for arm length on the flaps, changing the hole on the servo arm, etc. 5. Frsky (or compatible receiver) or are you using a completely different brand (Spektrum, etc.)? |
Originally Posted by tedsander
(Post 12684962)
Well, this might be a bit hard to work through, as 2.2.2 is now pretty old. I'm working from 2.3.12, so hope it is "close enough". I'm typing what Companion shows, so what you see on the radio screen will be a bit different, but should have the same information.
In Mixing, for the flap channel, mine made with the wizard has only the two lines: MAX Weight(+100%) Switch(SA↑) This potentially gives you THREE flap positions - Full up (no flaps), partial flap, and full down flaps.MAX Weight(-100%) Switch(SA↓) "MAX" is a special source, saying, "always use +100 to start the math" So the first line says "If SA↑, take 100 * +100% and therefore move the servo as far as the hard limit ("max") will let it, as set on the Outputs page". The second line says "If SA↓, take 100 * -100% and therefore move the servo as far as the other hard limit ("min") will let it, as set on the Outputs page". Because nothing is defined for the middle position (SA -), it defaults to telling the servo "just go to the center". Same as if you plugged it into a channel that was never defined in Mixing at all. So ideally, one would have the linkage on the plane set for one switch position (up or down) to be no flaps with the servo rotated to the max one way. Flipping the switch all the other way (down instead of up, or vice versa) would tell the servo to move as far as possible the other way, giving full down flap. With the servo centered for partial flap for the middle switch position. On mine, reducing the Weight on either of the above two lines does then reduce how far the servo moves - using 50%, and the flaps won't come up all the way or go down all the way (depending on which line was changed). Going above 100% weight produces no change for either, because of the hard limit over on the Outputs. So one can reduce the high side, if needed, to get exactly "0" flap, and reduce the low if the flaps go down too far. But initially you can't get more in either direction. But, before we get into how to fix, tell me a bit more about your setup: 1. Do you have the above two similar entries? If not, what settings did yours do for you? 2. Single servo drives both flaps? 3. What is wrong for the current setup - They don't fully retract? They don't deploy far enough/or go too far? The mid-flap position is too much/too little. Or some combination of these? How out of whack are they - a little, a lot? 4. How hard/easy is it to adjust the linkage - length, adjuster for arm length on the flaps, changing the hole on the servo arm, etc. 5. Frsky (or compatible receiver) or are you using a completely different brand (Spektrum, etc.)? Thanks Ted answers by number.1 I just created a model with the wizard as a test model. The defaults in wizard i set up like a tundra. Single servo s and y cables. Then rename the model and bind it to the plane. I would like to have the ability to power two flap positions and also mix to elevator. and I do have similar entries as you.2. No. One servo per flap on a y cable. Into the default #7 channel on the mix screen. 3. They function correctly as created. And are very close to a try in the air. Middle position a little to much and the full position pegged at 90 degrees. 4. All doable to some extent. 5.frsky 8xr from aloft. Recievers is probably 2019 vintage. No updates to recievers. So once bound to the plane I have l flaps that are neutral/not deployed on switch sa in the up position better than half on the middle position. Slightly over traveled in the low switch position. I cannot adjust the travel in position 2and 3on the switch. I can adjust the travel with weight on the first switch position ( Neutral/not deployed) So the condition that exists I can't overcome= is simply adjusting the throw on the servo to meet my needs. in positions 2 and 3. when I attempt to clone the mix line and assign individual edits to the clones, I don't get a solution. |
Originally Posted by Hyjinx
(Post 12684971)
Thanks Ted answers by number.1 I just created a model with the wizard as a test model. The defaults in wizard i set up like a tundra. Single servo s and y cables. Then rename the model and bind it to the plane.
I would like to have the ability to power two flap positions and also mix to elevator. and I do have similar entries as you.2. No. One servo per flap on a y cable. Into the default #7 channel on the mix screen. 3. They function correctly as created. And are very close to a try in the air. Middle position a little to much and the full position pegged at 90 degrees. 4. All doable to some extent. 5.frsky 8xr from aloft. Recievers is probably 2019 vintage. No updates to recievers. So once bound to the plane I have l flaps that are neutral/not deployed on switch sa in the up position better than half on the middle position. Slightly over traveled in the low switch position. I cannot adjust the travel in position 2and 3on the switch. I can adjust the travel with weight on the first switch position ( Neutral/not deployed) So the condition that exists I can't overcome= is simply adjusting the throw on the servo to meet my needs. in positions 2 and 3. when I attempt to clone the mix line and assign individual edits to the clones, I don't get a solution. You have been attempting to go at it the way most would, playing with weights and offsets. That is the greatly preferred way, for a lot of differing setups. It avoids any possible damage to servos being told to move too far. A variation would be to set up a curve, which sort of does the same thing, but allows finer adjustments at multiple stick positions. But, in this case, you have a simple setup going for you, you only want 3 different positions that will always remain the same in the future, AND (most importantly) the base configuration is "too much", rather than "not enough". So, lets attack this by configuring the "Outputs" settings. Reset the mixing lines back to their defaults, if you have changed them. Go to the "Outputs" page. Note on the line for CH7, there is either an arrow or dash between the columns for Max and Min. When you flip SA, the arrow will point at one number or the other, with a dash for neither. This helps to tell you which one you should be changing. FIRST - flip the switch to the middle position. Move over to the last column on the screen (for Centering) and dial in the correct amount of mid-flaps. You can do this with the plane on, and watch the flaps move as you adjust it (same for the next steps). Flip the switch to give full up flaps. Now start backing down the indicated number until the flaps just barely start to move. It may be 100, or may be less. We're just making sure here that the servo isn't straining to push the flaps further than fully up. Flip the switch to give full down. Lessen that number until they are at the position you want for full down. Done! I have to take a break, but will continue on in the next post about what is going on, why it works, etc. - and cover elevator mixing with this too! |
I edited the last after it being posted for a few hours - anyone following along should re-look at it, I made a couple of errors in the order of things to do, and had a step that wasn't needed. It is now corrected.
The downside to doing this for other flight surfaces is that this is the last thing done before the instructions go out to the servos. The amount of rotation for "up" vs "down" from the servo center is not equal, and there is no way for the Mixer to know this. So this could give inaccurate mixing results in other times and places. Hence why "weight" and "offset" are usually the preferred options. Down the road, this setup might be hard to deal with if you want to get fancy. But initially, it's very easy and gets you in the air. It is something to use when matching dual elevator servos, or the like. OK, now you want to have the elevator move a little with the application of flaps. So, I would create a new line on the elevator channel in mixing. Since the flaps are using "MAX" as a source, do the same here. We know it won't take much elevator, so make the weight small - maybe 5? You may have to make it negative to get the elevator to go in the correct direction. Tell it to use SA- for a switch. Make another line exactly like above, but make the switch whatever it is for full down flaps (either SA↑ or SA↓) Test fly, and see if it is too much or not enough elevator for the amount of flaps. Increase/decrease the amount of weight on the appropriate line until you get the desired amount for each. Down the road we might want to discuss how to make "in flight adjusters" for the elevator weights, so you can just dial it in while flying, rather than fly-try-land-adjust and repeat. But that pre-supposes a moderate understanding of the system, so might get a bit deeper than wanted at this point. |
If curious - I asked about the brand of receiver because some brands, by default, move the servo less that the standard amount that OpenTX does. So 100% in Spektrum, for example, actually equates to 78% in OpenTX. An additional step might have been needed to work out the differences. But it wasn't.
|
Originally Posted by tedsander
(Post 12684995)
As I noted before, there are usually several ways to solve a problem. I think in this case, we can most easily fix it with a less conventional solution.
You have been attempting to go at it the way most would, playing with weights and offsets. That is the greatly preferred way, for a lot of differing setups. It avoids any possible damage to servos being told to move too far. A variation would be to set up a curve, which sort of does the same thing, but allows finer adjustments at multiple stick positions. But, in this case, you have a simple setup going for you, you only want 3 different positions that will always remain the same in the future, AND (most importantly) the base configuration is "too much", rather than "not enough". So, lets attack this by configuring the "Outputs" settings. Reset the mixing lines back to their defaults, if you have changed them. Go to the "Outputs" page. Note on the line for CH7, there is either an arrow or dash between the columns for Max and Min. When you flip SA, the arrow will point at one number or the other, with a dash for neither. This helps to tell you which one you should be changing. FIRST - flip the switch to the middle position. Move over to the last column on the screen (for Centering) and dial in the correct amount of mid-flaps. You can do this with the plane on, and watch the flaps move as you adjust it (same for the next steps). Flip the switch to give full up flaps. Now start backing down the indicated number until the flaps just barely start to move. It may be 100, or may be less. We're just making sure here that the servo isn't straining to push the flaps further than fully up. Flip the switch to give full down. Lessen that number until they are at the position you want for full down. Done! I have to take a break, but will continue on in the next post about what is going on, why it works, etc. - and cover elevator mixing with this too! Now onto the elevator....Thanks Ted. Well written and easy to follow.. Aaron- |
OK - let's talk about what you were experiencing in the original setup. You noted that they retract fully with one switch position, but moved down too far with the other. Let's assume SA↑ is the "good" one, and SA↓ is "bad" - but that might be opposite on your setup.
Make sure to start from a fresh setup, without the changes I noted earlier for Outputs, and the Mixer lines are as created by the wizard. In my setup, the line in mixing controlled by SA↓ has an initial weight of -100%. To get less throw, you should reduce that number. Try -50% or even -25% to test. Since we are using a fixed starting value of 100 (the "MAX" source), that line is initially telling the servo to move as far as possible in the opposite direction (because the weight is negative). (100 x -100% = -100) Changing the weight to -50% gives 100 x -50% = -50. So half as far as before. Play with making that value less negative than the original -100%, until the flaps are at the full down position you want. Unfortunately, you have to exit out of that edit screen to see your change take effect. Then go back in to make further tweaks. It's not 'real time" like we had on the Outputs changes. The other line is completely independent, so no change there. It still tells the servo to go as far the other way as it can. But, I would play a bit with reducing the +100% weight until you find the point where the flaps just get to full up - again, so we aren't telling the servo to go a might too far. Now the mid point. As noted, the wizard assumes that the middle should be exactly half way between the two furthest points. Since having no command at all gives that result, it just didn't create a way to adjust it. So, create a third line. Use "MAX" as the source, set the weight to 0% and the switch to be SA-. This initially gives the same result as not having a line. Now adjust the weight, either positive or negative a little to get the mid-flap position where you want it. The above is the usual way to approach flaps. The good is you don't have to deal with Outputs, and the results can be easier to use with more complex setups. The bad is that you have to go in and out of the editing screen to see the results of changes. The "missing" line for SA- seems to be a result of whoever wrote the program for the Wizard being efficient by avoiding writing additional lines of software code, without reflecting on whether this might be a point of confusion for a new user. So now, two different ways to approach the flaps problem! |
Originally Posted by Hyjinx
(Post 12685090)
Good day TedThe tutoring on the flap adjustments worked. I cannot adjust individual switch inputs, but can change the deflection as corporate. Will suffice as the full flap and mid flap corporate adjustments can be adjusted to the elevator so it shouldn't be a stopper.
Now onto the elevator....Thanks Ted. Well written and easy to follow.. Aaron- |
Originally Posted by tedsander
(Post 12685091)
OK - let's talk about what you were experiencing in the original setup. You noted that they retract fully with one switch position, but moved down too far with the other. Let's assume SA↑ is the "good" one, and SA↓ is "bad" - but that might be opposite on your setup.
Make sure to start from a fresh setup, without the changes I noted earlier for Outputs, and the Mixer lines are as created by the wizard. In my setup, the line in mixing controlled by SA↓ has an initial weight of -100%. To get less throw, you should reduce that number. Try -50% or even -25% to test. Since we are using a fixed starting value of 100 (the "MAX" source), that line is initially telling the servo to move as far as possible in the opposite direction (because the weight is negative). (100 x -100% = -100) Changing the weight to -50% gives 100 x -50% = -50. So half as far as before. Play with making that value less negative than the original -100%, until the flaps are at the full down position you want. Unfortunately, you have to exit out of that edit screen to see your change take effect. Then go back in to make further tweaks. It's not 'real time" like we had on the Outputs changes. The other line is completely independent, so no change there. It still tells the servo to go as far the other way as it can. But, I would play a bit with reducing the +100% weight until you find the point where the flaps just get to full up - again, so we aren't telling the servo to go a might too far. Now the mid point. As noted, the wizard assumes that the middle should be exactly half way between the two furthest points. Since having no command at all gives that result, it just didn't create a way to adjust it. So, create a third line. Use "MAX" as the source, set the weight to 0% and the switch to be SA-. This initially gives the same result as not having a line. Now adjust the weight, either positive or negative a little to get the mid-flap position where you want it. The above is the usual way to approach flaps. The good is you don't have to deal with Outputs, and the results can be easier to use with more complex setups. The bad is that you have to go in and out of the editing screen to see the results of changes. The "missing" line for SA- seems to be a result of whoever wrote the program for the Wizard being efficient by avoiding writing additional lines of software code, without reflecting on whether this might be a point of confusion for a new user. So now, two different ways to approach the flaps problem! |
I'm unclear what you mean by "I cannot adjust individual switch inputs". Is everything working the way you want with the second method (plus elevator mixing)? If not...tell me more...
Down the road, after using Companion a bit, you'll find that you can make and send complete copies of your models as an attachment. Then if there are more complex issues, it's easy for the helper to look at everything to see what may be off. |
Originally Posted by tedsander
(Post 12685101)
I'm unclear what you mean by "I cannot adjust individual switch inputs". Is everything working the way you want with the second method (plus elevator mixing)? If not...tell me more...
Down the road, after using Companion a bit, you'll find that you can make and send complete copies of your models as an attachment. Then if there are more complex issues, it's easy for the helper to look at everything to see what may be off. In earlier attempts the devil in the details was not being able to change servo throws by weight or offset. Solved. I have now added a flap to elevator to the flaps for pitch up correction and it works. I am working through dual rates with expo for the surfaces. (All) As they were not in the wizard model created for this test. Aaron |
Originally Posted by Hyjinx
(Post 12685164)
More.
In earlier attempts the devil in the details was not being able to change servo throws by weight or offset. Solved. I have now added a flap to elevator to the flaps for pitch up correction and it works. I am working through dual rates with expo for the surfaces. (All) As they were not in the wizard model created for this test. Aaron |
Originally Posted by tedsander
(Post 12685251)
Great - sounds like you are on your way!
Ready to fly with a lot learned. Manual is on the way too! Thank you so much for all this help. Aaron |
APS PowerFuel RX
Greetings from Sunny Jamaica,
Hoping experienced Taranis users here can assist me with resolving what I feel is a simple issue but for the life of me I’m struggling to figure out. I’m trying to set up my Taranis X9D to operate an APS PowerFuel RX pump. The signal input to the pump is from Chanel 8 on the X8R receiver. Source for channel 8 is Throttle and I have a curve set up where at idle(-100) the output to the pump is 6 at midpoint(0) the output is 17 and at max(100) it’s 40. On the Taranis screen monitor I can see the channel operating as programmed. However, the pump isn’t running. Any one has experience with this specific set up? I would be grateful for guidance. Thanks in advance. DaleD |
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