va_connoisseur

Reading this has been hilarious. They all look alike, so the companies do no R&D. People collecting Transformers. LOL.

Ever been around full scale racing? If you're not a die hard fan, you cannot tell the difference (with the bodies off) between a Rouch, DEI or Hendrick Motor Sports car chassis. But to a NASCAR fan, the differences are obvious and they can readily point them out to you. Just like looking at the Mugen, XRay, Serpent and Kyosho; if you are into RC racing, you can pick out the differences in an instant. One last thing, while certain parts, belts and pulleys, appear to be "all in the same place", remember differences in these cars are measured in millimeters.

As for why it's not on network TV, that is an American TV thing. The sport is bigger in other countries and does appear on TV. Come on, you really can't use the TV argument as justification of a sports worthiness, we air Poker for God's sake. LOL

alias_neo

Ok, I will not even go into the fact that you ask questions and advice and reply with utter bull****. These people know what they are talking about, they are not fanboys nor are they unintelligent. You ask their advice you take their reply as gospel. PERIOD

As an Engineer, which it is completely apparrant that you are not, I will tell you that the slightest difference on this scale makes a huge difference. Again, you are clearly not a champion RC racer so to you the improvements succumb to your driving skills.

If you are not skilled enough to be using a car to it's full protential who are you to judge the avancements a car has over another. That is true with anything in life.

Second, again as an engineer, look into the patents, copyrights etc that these companies have under their belt. You can not call these toys, the precision and work that goes into the design of the materials. As Foxy said, they all have their effects.

I design Integrated Circuits, micrometres in size, would you dare tell me that 0.5 micrometres squared of extra silicone, incorrectly placed in comparison to a larger discreet component counterpart cm's to metres in size is insignificant? Although again, the production cost of the smaller counterpart costs significantly less.

Would you tell me that the difference in quality between the internal workings of a Fossil watch and a £20,000 Rolex is insignificant? No, of course not, they both use exactly the same materials, the same design. Just like a watch in comparison to the workings of the clock in the Tower of London, and change in the watch is insignificant to its working.

Oh, I forget, the £20,000 Rolex is a toy, because it clearly cost significantly less than that much larger clock. My mistake.

These are 1/8th scale cars, or 1/10th, just like full scale their is an amount of money in such a "Hobby" or "Sport". The larger counterparts cost significantly more and hence the difference in cost, international media attention and risks, bets put on these.

Furthermore, most if not all Engineering designs begin with a scale model, in Civil and mechanical it is a smaller scale model, in Electronic and Electrical it is a larger scale model. Either way, the scale model is extremely significant in the design process, the materials, dimension and test carried out are very important on that same scale if not more.

Feel free to argue with my points, I will happily correct you in reply. We engineers have a lot of free time on our hands once we get something right.

almtx3

I gotta jump in here and back Foxy up. Having been in the hobby for well over 10 years now I have seen the jump in quality with most of the top brand 1/10th scale cars. Also having recently the oppertunity to work on an XRAY NT1 the facts remain. This car by far is excellent. Not having to quote Foxy, but he sure got it right on one of his first responses on this thread. He definately knows his stuff and has no affiliation with Xray - He just has a wealth of knowledge and is very willing to share his experiences. He knows this car very well and has the track experience to back it up. Focusing on the original question here: Can anyone justify why XRay NT1 or Mugen MTX-4 is the best? I think Foxy did an incredible job justifying the fact that these cars are a bit more than just toys and there are guys out there that travel all around the world to race these cars. Fine, it might not be up to "NASCAR" status in regards to fame and publicity but for what it is, the advances in all these cars, wheather it be a Mugen, Serpent or Xray have to be respcted.

I have driven and owned a Serpent as well as competed against Mugens and other serpents as well. I have seen how the mugens perform and at this level, driving skills is a must! Foxy mentioned that driving skills make up 90% of what a car can do and I have to agree. These cars can help a driver with all their tuneability but without a good driver it aint worth squat. If you want a simple answer to the original question, the XRAY is at the top of the class right now. Its the new car on the block and has nothing but time to prove that it can perform the way it should. It all boils down to a matter of opinion. If you've been in this hobby for a while now and have had the oppertunity to work on an XRAY and drive it, your opinion would be firm that the NT1 may not be the best yet but its dang sure close!!!

Jatohulk

Darn you nail that on the head well done. Same for you Al18ss

almtx3

Thanks jatohulk! [sm=wink_smile.gif]I think everyones done a great job at trying to get their point across and its time to relax a bit and not forget that although this is a serious hobby its sill supposed to be fun. We all take it seriously and thats why we are all passionate about our opinions and thats great. Opinions are meant to be respected and as long as you can back up what you say much respect to all those that have chimed in.

alias_neo

P.S. forgive my poor spelling, I have burned 3 fingers with a blow torch and sliced one open with a blunt screwdriver while attempting to destroy my buggy in an attempt to test the Xray quality. Needless to say, I'm more impressed with the Xray quality of building than gods process of having skin as a protective outer layer, it's not quite the armour i was hoping it to be.

NebulaDDS

More people are interested poker than R/C cars, let alone competitive R/C car racing. I'm an R/C car enthusiast, and even I don't give a sh|t about competitive R/C car racing.

You CANNOT compare R/C cars to professional racing cars. That is an absolutely preposterous comparison to make. Why? Because the latter deals in millions and millions of dollars. For the 2007 Indy 500, the total purse was $10.7 million. The winning driver (Dario Franchitti) got $1.6 million dollars, all to himself! Second place and third place drivers were awarded $719,000 and $640,000, respectively. Tony Kanaan, who finished in 12th place, got $414,000. Some NASCAR race purses are even more impressive, if I'm not mistaken. Those are collossal numbers compared to R/C car winnings, my friend. Professional car races (e.g. Indy, F1, NASCAR, etc.) are has the interest of millions and millions of people. That means they will get great TV coverage. With great TV coverage, there will be sponsors who are willing to pay millions of dollars to racing teams in order to have their names written on the cars. Thus, these racing teams have millions of dollars for R&D of their racing cars.

Where does HPI, XRay, Mugen, Kyosho, Serpent, etc. get THEIR money for R&D? From DuBro or 3Racing? Oh wait, let me guess, Seven-Eleven and Pennzoil? Gimme a break! They get the vast majority of their money for R&D from their sales profits. And the more of their sales profits they devote to R&D, the less money they'll have to pay themselves. And we all know perfectly well that that is not an acceptable scenario to anyone running these companies. Hence, these companies are going to spend just enough on R&D to develop just enough to stay competitive in the market. This is basic, basic business management, buddy.

And Al18ss, I'm a dentist, not some uneducated fool. I deal with material sciences in my daily practice as much as I deal with medicine. Furthermore, some of my work, e.g. crowns, veneers, etc. etc. deals in fractions of millimeters. And if my work is even slightly inaccurate, my patients will be worse off because of it. So don't lecture me about scale and precision. Moroever, I do have some experience managing a business: my practice is a small business with an annual revenue of over $1.2 million. That aside, your comments about Fossil vs. Rolex wristwatches are naive, for two reasons: first and foremost, Rolex wristwatches do not cost thousands of dollars because they are physically worth thousands of dollars. True, they do consist of some of the highest quality parts that can be found in the wristwatch industry and their customer service is impeccable. But even that doesn't make my Rolex Sea-Dweller worth $4000. Rolex wristwatches are high-priced for somewhat intractable reasons. For some, they are status symbols. For others, they are sought after for the same reason diamonds are sought after--they've been hyped-up as desirable. Every Rolex owner knows perfectly well that if they wanted accuracy and durability, they'd need nothing more than a $20 digital watch.

Anyways, back to the subject at hand. You are absolutely right that the smaller the scale, the more significant 1-millimeter is. Nobody in their right mind (including yours truly) would dispute that. And if these little remote control cars were to be used in a Mars landing, I can assure you that XRay or HPI or Kyosho would be given millions of dollars in grants from NASA in order to research every little millimeter here and there. But they're not used in Mars landings. They're used by R/C car enthusiasts, some of whom race them competitively. (Although, in all honesty, most enthusiasts won't even spend $400 on such a car). Unquestionably, the high-end R/C market is not a big-money industry. As such, they don't have the money to do a lot of R&D and tweak every design aspect to within .5-millimeters of perfection. Yes, all of the cars in the Indy500 look about the same, but unlike R/C cars, I know full well that the teams who make these Indy cars have plenty of money to tweak things to perfection.

Finally, you've completely missed the boat by suggesting that I equate size and price with toy vs. non-toy. If R/C cars happened to be 20-feet long and cost $10 million, I'd still call them toys. It's the use of the item, and the public's perception (i.e. universal disinterest) of the activity that defines them as toys. Want proof? Ask any jackass you see on the street about the IndyCar or NASCAR, and they'll be able to tell you something about it. Ask that same person anything about R/C cars, and you'll be lucky if they mention anything beyond the fact that there's a radio transmitter that makes the car stop, go, and steer.

Mind you, if the XRay NT1 was ever used for a Mars landing, or to carry mail from one office building go the next, or be the object of a very popular sporting event, it would most-decidedly cease to be a toy.

Scavolini

Indiana.....let it go.

Sounds like your set bud. Buy them both!
XRay NT1 & Mugen MTX-4.

alias_neo

First, you clearly pay no attention to detail or you would have seen that it was myself that made the comment about Rolex vs Fossil.

Second, Rolex watches are more than just a status symbol, their workins are some of the most precise engineering in existence.

Third, I am no jackass and I know jack **** about NASCAR or any other form of "hyped up" sport, such as F1. It does not mean I would call them toys. Toys are for children, the term may be twisted and used in phrases concerning "boys toys" but the end result is the same. The idea of a toy is something fun that gets people, usually children excited in a childish way, it has no other solid purpose.

Fourth, you are a dentist? and dentists are the only people in this world i hate with a vengeance. Please leave my presence, no offense.

Jatohulk

If you make that much then you should buy both with no problems and do the comparing yourself and see which one is better.. $1.2 mill should be enough for extra parts.. [8D] Just because you are a dentist does not mean you are educated in the field of RC I am also in the Medical Field and I see a lot of Doctors that really do not know crap about what they are doing...

NebulaDDS

Alias, you must have had lots of rotten teeth and lots of dental work to fix them. Either that or you're unable to afford our routine services. Those are the most common reasons people hate us (those, and the fact that we make so much money by performing work that people need and simultaneously loathe).

Anyways, my previous post was made in response to both you and VA_connoisseur. My apologies for not itemizing the contents of my response to make that more clear.

I disagree with your statement that toys are for children. You yourself stated that, "The idea of a toy is something fun that gets people, usually children excited in a childish way, it has no other solid purpose." Replace the word "children" with "adults" in your explanation of toys, add to it "...and sometimes they are used in competitions that the vast majority of the public around the world is either oblivious to- or doesn't care about", and you have a perfect description for R/C cars.

Look, don't get me wrong here. I love R/C cars. They are fun as can be and I'll play with them even when I'm an 89 year-old man leaning on a walker and wearing Depends diapiers. But R/C cars are toys. The fact that they go fast and have some nifty engineering doesn't make them anything else.

Besides, what the hell is wrong with something being a toy? Are we grown-ups not allowed to play with toys?

NebulaDDS

You know Jato, if I had a nickel for every time I heard a nurse, physicians-assistant, medical assistant, dental assistant, OR tech, or some other mid-level or auxiliary health care worker who felt he/she had the training, the knowledge and the license to critique the the skill of a doctor with whom they work, be it regularly or infrequently, well, I wouldn't have to be a dentist any more.

"Work in the medical field" is a euphemism for someone who performs scut-work day in and day out and has no decision-making authority when it comes to patient care (that applies to physicians-assistants and NP's, I might add). Perhaps you're a nurse, perhaps you're a medical assistant. It doesn't matter. What I have to ask you, in response to your comment that you "see a lot of doctors that really do not know crap about what they are doing..." is this: How would you know?

alias_neo

Oh I can afford dental work, and i certainly don't have rotten teeth, it's just that my dentist is an inconsiderate monster of a person. Maybe I should get another one before hating all people.

And on the topic of adults being allowed to play with toys, I really wish you would come have a word with my girlfriend on that topic.

Peace out.

va_connoisseur

You are truly funny. "Every Rolex owner knows perfectly well that if they wanted accuracy and durability, they'd need nothing more than a $20 digital watch." I needed that good laugh.

DIABLOTAC78

sometimes educated person loose thier tempers and thier senses. an educated person dont ask question they already know and a great dentist,doctor,pilot, etc.. etc... have open mind. pls stop arguing rolex, education, or how much money you have ( if i have 1.2 million i wouldnt be here wasting time ill be on the track everytime and do my comparison on each car and not to show off in this thread) . so i think you to much bla bla bla bla bla bla . how many languge do you speak? me i speak 5

DIABLOTAC78

pls lets talk about rc this time

NebulaDDS

I said that my practice brings in over $1.2 million. That doesn't all go to me, unfortunately. Like all business, we have overhead expenses. Unlike all businesses, our overhead expenses are high.

DIABLOTAC78

okay any way we are intersted in rc forum not in income and what ever you do in your private life we are intrested in sharing knowledge in this hobbies , we know now that you are intelegent and educated and we respect that .

Scavolini

Ok, back to RC,

I don't have a Mugen (my hobby shop wanted me to buy it because they really support it) but instead I picked up the NT1. I finished setting it up last night. So I thought I'd give my feedback from another user.

I have to say, i don't think anyone makes a car flatter from the top, wider, and with great road clearance than the NT1 right now in a 200mm. The web presentation shows it, but it's different in person.

It's like I'm looking at a 1/8 scale car in 20cm width.
Without gear contact from the Engine or the motor, the car rolls by push like my electric Cyclone. The size of the rear shaft is also very impressive as it has a very large diameter and is at the same time very light.

My favorite portion of the car's design is the way the front chassis is countersunk and sandwiched to the car and the drivetrain option of 1:1 ratio which sealed the deal for me by eliminating any chance of wheel rotation drag between front & rear at high speeds, which makes the car very versatile for your purposes with the car.

Don't worry about the missing screws if you have any old team associated hex screws you'll be fine.

The car is definitely designed to fit a .12 size engine. Which is great if you're in love with .12's and what they can do in the hands of the right modifier. The chassis parts hug & wrap the 12 perfectly w/out any slack. It's a no brainer installation.

Note to modifiers: Not recommending the below, but just discussing.
For expiramentors....no bigger crankcase, no .21 or .18's as is unless you get a "back up" upper deck, and "back up" upper deck supports and possibly a "back up lower chassis" for drill holes and expirament relocating those middle elements a little more towards the front of the car so you don't destroy what you have already. You would also have to plan and see if your gear mesh will be ok since the SG Shaft will be pushed forward only (not centered back on the original location of the SG shaft for perfect gear alignment)...the motor mount holes will need to be machined but you can probably use the stock mounts. Pushing the mid center elements of the car forward would give you more room for a larger crancase without touching 1 part of the drive train, which is the main thing that doesn't eliminate all hope here.

Hopefully a 1/8 on road w/ 1:1 optional drivetrain ratio is due next from XRAY so we can drive 21's legit with their products and do it right. I can only imagine it's going to be just as effective if it has the option of a 1:1 ratio. It's just that it will be naturally heavier....