HELLO EVERY ONE:

Who makes the rules and how can we effect some changes. This hobby is growing fast and changing all the time. The one rule I am interested in is the one about no rear steering in the 2.2 class. So if rear steering is not fair then the DIG is not fair. If DIG is still the rule then the sport is set up for those who have the money to buy the better equipment, and that is one of the poits that drew me to this hobby. If you build a quality crawler, you can compete with any one. There can still be a cubic dollar class. They are both rear end control systems so let them compete together. The are just two different ways to do the same thing.

Thank you

Oh boy! you just stepped in it!!!

This has been apart of a long standing "discussion"

And the bottom line is: Give it up!!! If you want to run rear steer and rear dig in competition, then build a super!! If you cannot afford your hobby then find another one!

Not trying to flame or be an azz, just tryin to head off a S__t Storm. LOL

Jump up to super class and rear steer to your hearts content

Is the DIG legal in 2.2?

Yes it is, and its affordable. You can buy a tq3 for $20 and a servo for $10. After that its your choice of driveshafts and odds and ends.

Affording it not the issue. The question is why ban one from competition and not the other?
Is there really that much difference? If you're going to allow dig then why not rear steer
too? Give people the option of running either one.
Only reason I see is that DIG is making someone money by selling a product that's made legal
in 2.2 and probably also has major influence in the rule making.

I'll ask this question why is everyone so against rear steer in 2.2 competition and for DIG?

And so what if he opened up a can of worms. I feel it's a valid question.

but by that logic it would mean that the people who make dig set ups also make the rules in competitions which isn't true. I'm not totoally sure why one is legal over the other, but I'm pretty sure the rule makers aren't making more money from one over the other

I'm just saying that as the class evoles so should the rules.
Who do you talk to and how?

well, the rear steer has a bgger advantage over dig because it allows "side stepping" or "Crabbing" the rear while dig "Drags" the rear around thus making the rear steer a bigger advantage. 2.2 has always been a dig only class which in my opinion is better and still keeps the drivers skill paramount where as rear steer helps the driver alot more.

This subject has been hashed over for a very long time and still has not changed. You guys have absolutely NO chance of changing or influencing the change of this rule!! But if your egos tell you otherwise and you feel you can effect this change then contact www.usrcca.com that is the governing body of rock crawling. But dont be surprised if you ont get a response or a reply to your emails. You can skip on over to rccrawler.com and go to the competitions section and look for the rules thread at the top and post up your thoughts there.

The rules are made by several people who are representatives of various clubs and the owner of rccrawler.com which are members of the USRCCA

But since you guys insist on pushing then be my guest but dont say I didn't warn ya!! Just be sure you have enough experience and knowledge of what you are talking about before you do, otherwise those guys will eat you alive!!

There really is that much difference. Try both and you will understand. Until you have you really shouldn't be allowed to have any say in the matter.

There is always the possiblity of rules being changed if enough people get involved.

I really have a problem with the rules being made by several people, maybe they should have a vote by the majority of the people who compete in the races to see what they want.

The rules were established by the USRCCA. All USRCCA member clubs select a representative to the rules committee were all rules are discussed and voted on.

If you want to have a voice in the rules, join a USRCCA club and let your rules committee representative know your feelings.

As for 4WS, I will NEVER vote to allow 4WS in 2.2 period. Those who say they are the same have no idea what it is they are talking about. 4WS allows you to do things that a DIG equipped rig can not do and is strongly frowned upon by a vast majority of competitors.

If 4ws is so bad then why is it allowed in 1.1 comps. I still don't see what
you people are so scared of.

If there are reps from the clubs then why are their names and emails not
posted on the USRCCA website along with the President and the rest of
the main governing body.
The way it is now seems like a shadey organization ran by people that like to
hide behind a non informative website and make the rules fit their business needs
since this is the only information other than the rules that are posted there.

is what I envision may happen

I would have to agree with TFancher.............................

What exactly do you mean they make rules to fit their business needs??

Do you guys even realize these rules were established BEFORE alot of those business' were in existence. AND those business were established Becuase of the needs of the rules. The OG crawlers had to MAKE all the parts themselves until a business stepped up to it better and cheaper.

And this is NOT 1:1 Crawling, this hobby crawling and these hobby rigs are far more capable then the 1:1 by comparison thats why certain restrictions/rules need to be in place.

So beat away at that dead horse, but as Dezfan says get enough of your friend together to join a USRCCA club and have your voice heard. Good luck

1:1 rock crawlers arent a foot long..... They need to be able to turn around tight to keep trail sizes reasonable.

If you were driving a 2.2 rig with dig and four wheel steer you would barely have to line up your lines, which to me is the fun of crawling.

Noone is stopping you from running a 2.2 with dig and four wheel steering, go ahead and enter it in the super class.

XRRA rules state.

E. No rear steer, if on race buggy than must be pinned or disabled.

WEROCK rules state.

5.17.3: Rear Steering is not permitted. If the vehicle is equipped with rear steer, then teams must
completely lock out the rear steer with welded on tabs and bolted fastening devices so that there
is no question of rear steering movement.

UROC rules state

4.16.11.3. Multi-Axle/rear steering is not permitted.

4WS is a crutch.

Dig is a crutch too. Why not ban it.
Why do you need it? If you're a good
driver you should be able to pick the correct
line on the course.

Nobodies said anything about running Dig and RS together.

I would think that being able to run a DIG or RS would be acceptable.
Each are trying to achieve the same thing. A shorter turning radius.

I could see where running both would be unacceptable and
could accept that ruling and support it.

Maybe instead of being SO NOT IT"S NOT LEGAL
explain WHY it's not legal and why YOU are so
against rear steer?

Rear Steer by itself doesn't give you any shorter turning
radius than Dig. So what's the big deal. No one has
yet to explain it in a CIVIL way.

Sorry but I don't take kindly to POMPUS attitudes.

We can discuss so new people to the hobby like myself can have a better understanding
of the history for the ruling or you can run off new people with the continued attitudes.

Locked diffs and four wheel drive can be argued as a crutch too. Should we ban those?

And I have a news flash for you,, this community of crawlers live with the popmus attitudes on a daily basis, so if you dont like(or tolerate it) it then maybe its not for you! LOL


And whoever said you need to know the history of the rules to follow or bend them??

Thanx Hands, wasn't sure he saw that either!!


EDIT ADDED:

Why is it you feel the 2.2 class needs to be changed to allow rear steer when the super allows it?? so run super,, duh!!

It is not allowed in 2.2 because we are trying to emulate 1:1 competition at it's highest level. DIG is allowed in 1:1 competition. 4WS offers benefits that far out way that of a simple DIG unit. Being able to independently steer the rear axle allows much more control and makes course design all the harder. Instead on rowing upstream on the matter, why not do some research and find out why the rules are the way they are.

Ya well it's alot easier to be jerk than helpful for some people just shows the IQ ya deal with.

Nobody ever said anything about running RS and DIG together except for you two.

And that's why I'm asking here because there is no INFO on the USRRCA's website just the rule
and NO contact information other than a generic address that someone can hide behind.

I thought there might be some mature individuals here that could answer a few simple questions.
Nobodies was trying to ruffle any feathers just trying to get an understanding. But I can see that's
not going to happen. Just get the 'BY GOD THE RULES ARE THE RULES AND THAT'S IT!!!"
I can read your flippen rules and understand it's NOT legal.

TF, sounds like you are getting a lil frazzeled..relax