dacaur

Im predicting the traxxas summit will do really well at crawling....

The #1 reason that in the 1:1 world a solid axle crawler is so much better than independent suspension, is that independent suspension truck have so little articulation. A well set up solid axle jeep can easily have 40+ inches of axle articulation (meaning, if you have a rock 40 inches tall, you could drive over it with just one wheel, and the wheel on the other side would stay on the ground) Most stock independent suspension setups will give less than a foot of articulation, with the vast majority having around 5-8" and adding a suspension lift doesn't automatically increase articulation like it does in a solid axle truck. The Problem? Short suspension arms.... the arms have to be short, so that the engine oil pan can hang down as far as possible, for a lower CG, plus shorter arms are easier to make strong than longer ones.... One vehicle that doesn't have this issue as much is a hummer H1, with 18 inches of wheel travel, it far surpasses any other stock independent truck, and can actualy crawl, decently.
Here are some vids
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l0sMg8MH4M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjmRS...eature=related

Its also worth noting that there have been several independent suspension rock crawlers.... The problem is you have to basically start from the ground up, since you cant just modify an existing design... and they still suffer from problem #2

In any case, the Revo design definitely doesn't have this shortfall, so its not a problem.


Problem #2, and a very close follower to #1, is strength... independent suspension has some notoriously weak points... CV axle joints and steering components are the worst offenders.... They can be beefed up, but at great cost..

Again, the revo platform doesn't have this problem...

SOOOOOOOOO.....

Yes there are other independent suspension monster trucks that dont fair too well at crawling, like the E-maxx, etc, but the revo suspension design has a lot more articulation, and something that NO other monster truck has, which is the rocker arm suspension, which gives a TRUE progressive rate spring, more so than a normaly suspended monster truck....

I'm predicting this truck will kick some SERIOUS butt on the rocks..... And I would bet money it will win SOME competitions....

The Mad Modder

In theory you may be right, however I've yet to see any real footage of a revo crawl over anything near the size of what rigid axle trucks can crawl over. Towards the end of Traxxas' Summit video they show it it crawling over a log. If you what carefully you'll see that it was edited. They took footage of it starting to crawl the log and footage of it coming down the other side and spliced them together. There is no footage of it on top of the log. There are other areas in the video that edit out the same kind of footage. If I saw unedited footage of it crawling well I'd believe it, but I've yet to see that.

engineerjoe

we will see for sure. My guess is that the CG is too high to compete in most super class competitions. No dig and no rear wheel steering will be hard to overcome too.

It has some cool advancements tho.

robbio4422

you have to remember that this is a "stock" truck and RTR... i dont know if people would be willing to compete with an rtr ride. i dont see people with stock WK's that are aggresive crawlers.. it takes time and a bit of money to get the WK to the point at which it can crawl.

i would assume that someone will come up with a chassiss for this new traxxas truck. im exited to see what can be done with it... i dont think i would ever own one unless some serious aftermarket parts are put out. and we all know rpm loves to work with traxxas parts

even the axial kit doesnt have rear steering (yes i know its an easy upgrade)

dezfan

Sorry, still not a crawler.

dacaur

Any nitro or e-revo hop up will work with the summit.

robbio4422

i ment crawler based hop up

grumpn

As a nube old guy (61) going through a second childhood I think this Traxxis Summit will be a huge hit. Here's why. For those of us not into racing or compitition this is the vehicle I can bash with with manageble speed and jumping ability. Remember I'm talking nube here. Then I can throw it in the truck and find a good construction site and do some crawling. One vehicle one investment. It won't be a top crawler or hot rod but middle of the road performance for about $500 makes this a perfect entry level vehicle for a wide range of ages and pocket depths. A stock type crawling class for this type of vehicle in the future could draw many into the upper levels of the sport. Nuff said. I was at the E-Hobby show in Chicago last weekend. Two things surprised me. Since my last trip to the show a few years ago I was in awe of the huge jump in electric EVERYTHING and the related use of foam molded planes and boats. Second, I swear Traxxis has more vehicles this yead than the whole industry had in the market 6 to 8 years ago[sm=what_smile.gif] And lastly the 1/16 CORR truck is so-o-o-o- cool. JMHO Ric

s7jstep1

i like it. i wouldnt buy it becaust i already have a nitro revo and an e maxx and i also have a crawler so i have no need for it but i do like it. i cant wait to see how many people are going to put that locker system in their crawlers

drevil

My Feedback: (5)

Watch the video of it going over the log and note the height of the truck before and after the log. It is clearly much higher behind the log than it is in front of the log which leads me to believe the ground is a good bit higher behind the log giving the impression its crawling over the log when in reality its just an illusion.

The Mad Modder

I believe that you mean log #1. I was referring to the one after the words "any challenge".

Anomie

When we say 'crawler', do we mean competitive? Is there a strict definition outside competition? It seems that 'crawling' is subjective, and may depend upon the purpose.

jessemxt

I still really like this truck and if we look past the crawler aspect and bring out our inner child this truck has a huge cool factor I really want one of these.

773W

My Feedback: (1)

Agreed, the summit looks like it will be ALOT of fun. I want one as well. My AX10 has never been in a serious comp and never will be , due to lack of intrest from other in the area, but ya never now. I drive for fun and enjoy every minute of it.

hands without shadows

To me, a "rock crawler" is a rig built to crawl over rocks. The Summit was built to tool around construction sites and backyards with. Can it crawl over rocks? It sure can to some extent, but then so can something like an E-Savage or Wheely King. It looks like a really fun truck but I wouldn't classify it as a crawler.

Just an opinion

jessemxt

True but this truck will wheel circles around a esavage and a emaxx due to the lockers and low gearing.

caylen17

My Feedback: (2)

I'm happy for the Summit for one reason, the radio. I have 4 traxxas radios in my other vehicals and love them! I will be able to run lights or a winch on my crawlers. I prefer the pistol grip radios but then are limited to channel use. What radios do you scale guys use? Something with maybe 4 channels and up for all the different accesories, and what accesories do you run?

Matt_Gruizinga

My Feedback: (1)

you guys are kinda missing the point....it's not intended for crawling!
clearly on traxxas's site the say it is and "extreme terrain monster truck" not a crawler.
the only reason people think it is a crawler is because the add has it going up what looks to be and incline and aggressive tread path.
traxxas wasn't making a crawler they were making a revo that could "run in a construction site" but they also wanted people to go on the rocks, just not seriously (exo cage and fake beadlocks to prevent "rockrash"

run2jeepn

Your theory is a little off....

Solid axles when Flexing force traction to the other side. IFS does not. Solid axles are Stronger and Less Complicated... Solid axles are also much more Rock Friendly. Solid axles have less to get hung up on. Instead of Huge A-Arms to slide over the Rocks. There is just a Tube... Also if you hit a Rock with the Center section of an IFS set up. You have to Bump the Whole weight of the Truck to get over. Since the Pumpkin. On a Sold Axle set up. You can bounce the Pumpkin over those same rocks. Oh and the last thing. You can not fine tune a IFS set up like you can a Nice 3 or 4 Link set up. That alone is a HUGE advantage. A Top driver in the 1:1 world. (Walker) tried a fully custom IFS with dana 60 Centers. He shortly changed back.

IFS was designed for soaking up Bumps at higher Speeds. And thats what it does well.

Even in the 1:1 world. Solid axle Crawlers are built from the Ground up.


What Traxxas did was not make a Comp Crawler. They had no intention to either. It's to big and bulky for 2.2's... To wide for 99% of the Scalers. If you want a Super. You'd have to stretch the wheelbase and maybe lock the arms anyway. No different then the Maxx Supers we have seen in the past.

dacaur

That's a common misconception... I hear people say that all the time about solid axle's, "when one tire goes up, it forces the other tire down, increasing traction".... Which is totally untrue. Anyone with a couple minuets, a solid axle crawler and a scale can see thats totally untrue.... At no time while lifting the tire on one side, does the weight on the other tire go up, it DOES however, go down... try it and see, I have. Anything else would defy the laws of nature.... A solid axle is still better because it keeps some weight on that tire for much longer than an independent suspension would, since solid axles setups normaly have more articulation.

When it comes down to it, I agree with you on the solid axle VS independent argument. Solid axle is better, And I fought tooth and nail to keep my wife from trading in her solid axle grand Cherokee for a fully independent patriot.. (in the end, it was her jeep, and I have my truck, so fair is fair) But thats not to say an independent rig cannot crawl. You can drive a jeep patriot over the Rubicon trail... No One is saying the summit will rise to the top of the crawler world... All I'm saying is you cant automatically say "its not a crawler" simply because its got independent suspension.

>1% of all crawlers in the 1:1 world are built from the ground up... In the highest levels of competition, when it is allowed, you will find tube frame rigs that hand built, but all of them still use axles from a production vehicle. and mass produced engines, trannys, and transfer cases... hmm... just like in the RC world.

Just because a jeep Cherokee with a 4" lift cant crawl as well as a CJ7 with a custom 4 link, doesn't mean the Cherokee isn't a crawler, just that its a less capable crawler... But you will still find competitions where a Cherokee comes out on top.... its 50% machine, 50% driver skill that makes a rock crawler rock....

dezfan

Still NOT a crawler.

run2jeepn

I just tested it. Just to make everything Clear. When I say opposite side. A Better term would be the Opposite Corner...

AX-10 4-linked
Left Rear Tire On Scale= 1lbs 9oz
Lifted Front Right Tire till another tire lifted= 2lbs 9oz
Difference of 1lb

IFS Pede
Left Rear Tire on Scale 1lbs 8oz
Same deal as above 2lbs
Difference of 13oz

2.2 Clod Pimp Cane, Just for Fun
2lbs 5oz
to
3lbs 11oz
Difference of 1lbs 6oz

I think my Math is right... Might double check it..

So really the Forced Traction isn't that much different. Between these two Rigs...

The Clod Really Changed....

I'm talking about 1:1 Comp Rigs, not Weekend warriors or Daily Driver. Just about every 1:1 Comp Rig is built from the Ground up. Well of Course they use Mass Produced Engines, Trannys and Transfer Cases. Is there any other? But Stock Axles are being out numbered by Custom ones. Dana 60/Rockwell Hybrids, 9in and 60 Hybrids and so on.


Why are you comparing two Solid axled rigs together? The 50% Rig and 50% Driver is only True if it's a Level playing ground....

dacaur

Thats convinient, if it were true.... You said "Solid axles when Flexing force traction to the other side. IFS does not." Reguardless of wheather you want to change your story on what you meant or not, the comment was wrong

Access

Traxxas uses the motto "Beyond racing. Beyond crawling. This is Summit..."

Beyond used in this context means "in addition to" or "greater than, surpassing". In other words, "everything, and then some".

Traxxas isn't selling this as a crawler, they're selling it as something better. They are making the claim it will surpass all crawlers.

One other thing to think about. A competition crawler is designed for careful, precise manuevering and control. This is a necessity of competitions.

A summit may be able to traverse difficult terrain simply by getting up enough speed and then "barreling" over it. If you have ever done mountain biking you should understand the principle. As long as you can stay upright, it's often easier to go fast over something difficult than slow.

Where the summit could really excel (if it lives up to the hype) is "outlaw racing". One of the big drags on a racing club is the need for a prepared track, you need a site, you need to maintain it, you need insurance, etc. Rock crawling on the other hand doesn't require any of these things. A rock crawling club can simply meet up at some rocks, lay down some markers, and compete right there. Two weeks later it might meet up at a different set up rocks and repeat. Same thing with the Summit. You don't need a prepared, pre-arranged track, you can simply meet up at a different place every few weeks, lay down some rope, markers, etc., and race without a lot of preperation.

dezfan

Still sucks.