Idealist

Hi Gary - and a huge THANK YOU!

Looks awesome!!!

Just a question: how do you plan to glue in the vertical aftward part of the crossmembers into the forward rounded part?

Are you planning some kind of U-shape to have enough glueing surface?

Idealist

TBK

Gary

Really good progress on your crossbeams. Very complex shape (x-pattern plus curved profile) will make it more difficult to fabricate and balance the loadings but I'm sure that you'll get it worked out. I tried using hollow beams at first but found them to be too flimsy and ended up coring them with balsa. It didn't add that much extra weight but it did make them very rigid. The beams need to be strong enough to keep the three hulls aligned when they are under loading and they need to be able to sustain the rig tension both loaded and unloaded. I used two sets of shrouds on my rig and a backstay and separate forestay to provide maximum rig tuning capability. These boats perform best with some degree of mast rake aft to generate forward lift without buring the bows.

Like Ernst I'm anxious to see how you decide to connect the beams to the amas. Remember that whatever you come up with it will need to be able to resist an upward loading from the rigging and a twist loading from the hulls when they are moving. Keep the photos coming.

TBK

Morspeed

Thanks Ernst, been thinking about a section that looks like this " ] " basically glued into back of crossmember , got a few other possible solutions , we will see when i get to this part of the plug build...really do not want raw glass edges exposed..mainly cause its just not nice to look at..

Morspeed

Hi TBK, yep it sure is a little complicated, especially building on such a small scale, but i have been thinking about this for 15 months now and should be able to make it work, although the whole concept is very much a work in progress.... Interesting that you found balsa the best solution to stiffen beams...I foresee a strip of balsa shaped to fit snug up in the front nose of beams laminated into the full length of beams and another strip of balsa laminated onto the inside of rear vertical section of beams.

As you say a little more weight is a small trade off for performance gains in stiff beams..

Connection of ama's to beams....maybe will fabricate / weld very light stainless plate with two stainless 3mm round locating pins and a bolt in the centre.

This plate will be fixed inside deck with the two pins coming up thru the deck. (with the bolt coming up through the centre of plate thru deck.
The beam end will have two locating holes that will mate down onto the deck pins..these locating pins will prevent twisting of the hulls to beam connection.

Then a nut will secure the ama in place locking down thru the ama beam end...make sense??.

Idea here is to make assembly and dismantle very quick, also keep ama hull waterproof integrity but will need to build these components very light...I will play with this idea soon.


Gary

Idealist

Thanks Ernst, been thinking about a section that looks like this '' ] '' basically glued into back of crossmember , got a few other possible solutions , we will see when i get to this part of the plug build...really do not want raw glass edges exposed..mainly cause its just not nice to look at..
[/quote]


Hi Gary,
this is exactly what I ment!

And for the "raw" glass edges - you could paint them.
Therefore I suggest to put the "I-bar" more inside
of the profile instead at the very end of the profile.

This way you could glue the '' ] '' inside -
and would have enough surface for attaching
clothclamps all the way through - or something like this.

Idealist

Morspeed

Hi Ernst, took me a few days to decide what are "cloth clamps" decision is clothes pegs???. good idea[sm=thumbs_up.gif]

Well i think we are having the same ideas about the crossmember build and thats got to be a good thing mate.

You are quite right, I can tidy up the raw glass edge with sand paper and paint and it will look good when done. I just really would like to have no raw glass edges on boat anywhere cause it just makes assembly so much easier and quicker. But in this case I may have to bite the bullet and accept defeat.

First I need to build another Ama hull before i can finalise crossmember placements..

so this is this weekends project and sorry cause I know you all have seen this processs on a earlier posting but here's a pic of the ama mould all prepped for laminating, bagging.

Morspeed

Glass Cloth in situ and ready for wet out....and then into the bag.

Morspeed

#2 Ama hull out of the bag and into the oven, 24 hours at 20 c and 12 hours at 50 c.

Morspeed

Talked about building these a while back, made a start today on the plugs.

Idealist

Hi Gary,
any updates from your side?

Idealist

Morspeed

Like the new VIII Ernst, looks like it sits very nice in the water.

I have completed no #2 ama hull and it weighs in at 260 grams so have dropped 40 grams off the first one I made...cannot see any way to loose more weight without moulding in carbon....be doing that soon.

Pics here show all three hulls together for the first time.

cheers

Gary

Morspeed

Also been working on the foils and now have them ready to join together.

Pic with the uni carbon laying on top of foil halve is still dry and ready to wet out for final sandwich of halves.

Foam I have filled the halves with is high density divinycel glued into foil halve on a bed of 3oz cloth and a thin mix of epoxy and 403 glue powder.

Idealist

ORMA 60 Trimaran SOPRA for Daycharter!


I just received this email:

" Hi Ernest,


The Emotion Trimaran is one of the few Orma 60 ft trimaran still equiped to race offshore. We propose to individuals and companies to go on board with professionnal skippers and to learn how to navigate it. With strong winds, the Emotion trimaran could rise the 40 knots speed, so you will feel the true sensations of the sail champions...
For individuals, we propose a half-day of navigation at 480€ and for an entire day, 1200€ all-inclusive (travel from the train station, lunch on board...). For the schedule, you could book the 23rd or the 30th of october (the next dates are the 16th and 30th of April 2011).


Please find below the offical video of the Emotion trimaran:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqX49TWqvnE


We are situated in France, in the port of Sète (3h30 from Paris): http://maps.google.fr/maps?rlz=1C1CH...ed=0CCYQ8gEwAA


Looking forward to heard from you soon.
Best regards,


Charlène JACQ.
+33698402550


NB: sorry for the delay of my response, we had a problem with our email box.



2010/10/5 Ernst Zemann <[email protected]>

Dear Sirs,

I just received an advertisement from the American
MULTIHULLS-Magazine
saying that its possible to sail aboard the former SOPRA
at St.Tropez with a skipper for a day.

That´s where I got your email adress from.

If this is the case, I would be very interested to receive prize informations and possible time schedules from you!

Looking forward to hear from you.

Kind regards,
Ernst Zemann
Boatbuilder/-designer
Vienna/AUSTRIA"

Please also check out the video!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqX49TWqvnE
Makes my heart pumping!!!!

Idealist

ianinshanghai

Hi there. My name is Ian and the trimaran in Ernst's message to you is mine. I have recently moved to Perth in WesternAustralia, so not so far form you.I assembled the boat when I was in Shanghai last year. I too have a lot to learn, and last time out (last wekeend, when these photos were taken) both cross beams buckled on the lee side, so I have to rebuild these. When are you planning to get yours on the water? Best regards
Ian

ianinshanghai

How did you make the moulds for your rudder and centreboard? I am busy making foils to go into the amas. See pics. Since mine are asymmetrical (to give lift), Ihave build them up without female moulds, but recognise that this is not the best way to construct them

Morspeed

nice way to spend a day but a very expensive charter Ernst..you going for a ride??.

Morspeed

Hi Iannolongerinshanghai,

Yep not so far..but still she's still a a long haul to Perth.

nice to hear from you..sorry to hear about your crossmembers, that is a bit concerning, cause if i am correct you only got the boat recently and it was supplied to you in carbon finish??, (you have since painted it?), i recall asking Sirit about the twist in the Ama's and he said he had to beef up the internal bulkheads to solve the ama twist problem...I was recently asking Sirit for advice on carbon layup in cross members as I could see the importance of strength in the beams. What so you think caused your failure...impact or some sort of repetitive strain injury or do you think the beams needed to be stronger??. appreciate your thoughts as i am moving into this stage of build very soon.

I no longer have a date to launch...sometime is all i can commit too.

cheers..Gary

Morspeed

Really interested to see how this works for you, there are certainly mixed opinions on merits of foil assist in a mini40...however i am doing this too and posted a few posts back a picture of my curved foil assist plugs under construction...did not mention what the pic was..just wanted to see if anyone would put a name to the face...seems not.

I have posted fairly detailed notes on how i built my rudder and centre board foil female moulds through out this thread ...end result is one half female mould which i can build two halves from and then sandwich together a foil...in fact i have just completed my first centre board foil from these moulds and the stiffness far exceeds my expectations...a little heavy though but i can give the next one i build a diet to get weight down... so heres a series of pics which should give you all the answers you need..just yell if you need more info.

Morspeed

Ian,

On the issue of foil assist you are building for your ama's, for a one off build what you are doing is fine, you can get plenty of strength and it should work fine..

Every foil assist rc multi i have seen has always had the same straight section foils and it sure does work well.

I decided to do something a little different and build curved foils for my ama's.

I am building two different sizes of curved asymmetric foils case as I am not sure what arc / length is going to work best and its just as easy to build two sets of moulds ...pics below show the plugs under construction..the basic plug build concept is exactly the same as I built my rudder/ centreboard foils plugs and moulds.


Just noticed on the pics you posted of your foils that they look to have the curve on under side with flat surface on top???, maybe i am looking wrong at the pics but if not then your foil asymmetric is upside down??.


cheers...Gary

Idealist

@ Ian,
good to have you here, Mate!
From your pics I was unable to decide what size your foils have and what profile.
Could you place pics with a ruler nearby?

@ Gary,
As you are going for curved foils for your amas, I would have suspected a radius of at least/around 300 mm and a profile of 60mm cord, 8 % thickness like the rudder/centerboard, but with flat underside.
Wingtips would be usefull as well - to reduce induced resistance.

@ Both,
keep on rocking,
I´m with you!

Idealist

From this pic I would guess this is/was for BP 5 or something in that range.
Estimated size 4 meters long and 0.8 meters profile cord.
Too big for a ´60 trimaran.
Correct me, if I´m wrong.
Where did you get that great picture from, Gary?

Idealist

@ Ian,
was your intention like this:
http://www.martin-raget.com/index.ph...ioID=1658&co=3

Especially this picture from that gallery:
HYCHFY1_0367.jpg

Idealist

GLX

Excellent video Ernst. Trimarans have to be the kings of the seas, so majestic, so elegant and so extreme.

I saw Sopra in my last hols in my parents home in Bretanny. She was moored in Port-la-foret , she looks the business alright but you can see how she's already an "old" design compared to the Groupama, or BP latest designs. Still the sensations onboard must be fantastic. Today we raced at the second last day of our Autumn series here. I sail on a Corby 25 so relatively small yet with the waves we had and by pumping at the right time we manage to bring the boat over 10knots on regular basis and reaching just over 11 knots at time on the down leg with a .75 kite. it was a great feel but nowhere need the pretty 20 knots speed and over on a tri. I spend 3 months on a 13m trimaran designed by a friend who decided get it built and I remember coming close to the UK coast and with a gale force warning in place we decided to get into a port and I manage to helm the boat at an average speed of 21 knots on a 2 sail reach and it was magical already.

Idealist

Hi Gary,
where are you?

We got our first snow this winter!
And you are enjoying spring down there?

Idealist

fmarcelo

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Buddy I am looking to start a project this winter my choiso was your project I would like top have some help to start my own if you can send me a set of plans and some tips like space betewen sections of hull and flotters \i did not find that any where in the post, well I will leave my e-mail to have the a set of plans if you don´t mind [email protected]

thank you very much

Idealist

This is what trimaran sailing is all about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqX49TWqvnE

Never forget about that