caribefoto

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I just stumbled onto this build and the speed of your work has me out of breath already!!

So..I guess the Hanriot couldn't hold your attention?...............John

JohnF

Doc, I have seen that photo, are you sure the D III, D IV were done the same way? It really doesn't matter. When DJ built the first two D.III (one for me) this was also an issue and I seem to recall only the top wing had a sheeted L/E.

Tmoth4

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I sheeted both wings on mine. I'm going to have the ribs tapes go right over it.

geezeraviation

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Hi John, its difficult to tell if the later AC were done the same but like Tmoth says "without the sheeting it seems they would have partial riblets to help the airfoil keep its shape" (under pressure).

geezeraviation

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I have just cut out all new wing tip parts and am using a jig cut to the shape of the top of the rib to lay them up on. Then we'll see how things look.

geezeraviation

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So far this AM I have posted twice using the quick reply and have locked up the machine twice trying to load photos, I'm going to try one more time, I have rebooted, deleted temporary files and am just curious enough to try again, I would really like to continue with this build here so we'll see if I can upload a photo.
Wow I think it worked.

geezeraviation

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And now for the third wingtip sceme. This is what I think this is suppose to look like. Dave, Allan? comments anyone?

Tmoth4

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It looks great. I'm definitely going to redo mine.

Jim

abufletcher

Does the model use a scale airfoil? I'm thinking not. And if not, then that's going to cause problems with the shape (width) of the aileron balancer.

geezeraviation

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Abu
According to DJ the airfoil is scale and it matches the profiles in the WSDF (as good as one can tell), It has a healthy undercamber and is precious thin. Now understand three of the last four WWI airplanes I framed up had a BUSA airfoil so this seems wafer thin to me. the structure for the top wing with torque tubes but only one aileron (I'm building the other now) weighs about 330.7g or 11.66oz. Dave says this model should weigh 15 to 17 lbs. I hope theres not 3 lbs of church roof in it. I recall reading somewhere that the airpland needed no ballast. I build light normally but the line of the back of the cowl is aft of the leading edge of toe upper wing and the face of my firewall will be 2 1/16" behind that, the aircraft has no nose. I have referred to it as a bull dog with wings but I think John O nailed it with "Beer barrel with wings"

abufletcher

Wafer thin? In your photos the airfoil looks to be almost as "fat" at the (scale) DrI ribs. The key question here is "did the aileron have thickness?" For example, the ailerons on the DrI (and many other WWI aircraft) used "flat" ailerons made of welded tubing.

cocobear

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Abu, your eye needs retraining. As thick as a Fokker? Maybe a bit of study before comment.

geezeraviation

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Oh ! no where near as thick as a Fokker Wait at what scale? HAHA at 1/4 scale this is about 1 1/8 thick.
Yes recalibrate eye.

geezeraviation

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I believe thet the rudder and elevetors on this AC were flat and as you say made from steel tubing, and I believe the outline form of the ailerons were tubing but formed ribs seem likely. The fin and horiz stab are built up and airfoiled but the surfaces attached to them were flat.

abufletcher

I guess it just looks deceptively thick in the photos you posted. I wouldn't put this Göttingen 155 airfoil in the "wafer-thin" category, but you're (both) right that it's thinner than the DrI rib. In fact, it looks a LOT like the (non-scale) rib on the CDScaleDesigns CI (which really DID have a wafer-thin wing on the original).

You and Dave are the experts, but even after looking through the DF, those ailerons and aileron balancers look (in the photos) a bit thick. Maybe this is just how they look in those photos.

cocobear

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Abu, I will post the models airfoil tomorrow. The balancers do need to be sanded out considerably from the photo you referenced.

abufletcher

Also this crop from the DF drawing seems to suggest that the aileron balancer would have been "flat."

Shelstrm

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Doc

This question might be a little premature but what covering material and paint are you going to use.

Doc S

geezeraviation

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Ummmm, it depends on what airplane I do. The wings will be lozenge of course and which route I take, I havent decided. I dont want to paint them and there's no way I'm using dope to put fabric on. Theres a guy who prints on Solartex but so far I haven't had any luck getting a hold of him and I wont participate in color or pattern discussions, its worse than the dreaded PC10 debate anf no matter what or whose colors you use its just wrong to most everybody so If I can come up with something that pleases me,,,,well you know how that goes. I would still like to stain and varnish the fuse cause it looks so good. Well see how much glue I get on it and then decide.
Doc

Steve Percifield

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Doc,

The guy you are looking for (in case you haven't him yet) is Chris Sellman with Wildmann Graphics.

www.wildmanngraphics.net

He prints the lozenge on solartex in seva=eral scales.

tell him I sent you

steve

geezeraviation

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Thanks Steve When you posted I was looking for a post of his I had seen recently to PM or e-mail him.
Doc

geezeraviation

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Abu the illustration you posted is a DIV which used a Gottengen180 airfoil and the aero balance on the DIV holds a slightly different position when the aileron is at neutral. At least according to the DF, a good clear picture of the area that I would like to see doesnt exist in the book or any of the data that I have. Just today I did order Dick Bennetts drawings (4 pages) from WWI Areo and who knows what I'll be able to discern from them. Banka may have a photo pack on the replica in AZ and who can guess what is in it, and to end all it's a replica, whose information did they use and they have to make any decisions as to what looked like what, also the replica is a DIV I think.

abufletcher

The drawing is from the DF and is labeled as a DIII...and the side view shows a FLAT balancer. Furthermore, I can't find a single photo in the whole DF that would indicate that either of the two styles of balancer had any "tapering width." What got me thinking about this is the odd wedged shaped piece of balsa that you have on the inside edge of your balancer. There many not be anything you can do about this.

geezeraviation

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I have the DF and that's a DIV. And you're right I may just have to live with it. No one wants to step up and provide a photo of the underside of the wing at the tip and the aileron, Allan, Dave, Vertical Grimace???? Anybody out there who has built this wing want to share some photos. I'd really like to do this right. Whats this forum good for if I cant get some help here from the ex- X is an unknown factor-spurt- a drip under pressure-perts.
Later guys

allanflowers

I found a number of small inaccuracies on the Bennett drawings (relative to the old photos). No one should expect to blow up a 1:48 scale drawing and get a definitive answer.
My wingtips were fatter than the ones I see being done here and fatter than the ones on Dave's model but I think theirs' are more correct. It is too late to change mine but I would if I could. I do think there is a little curvature in side view on the end of the aileron air-balance part from side view however.