acdii

I tell yeah, no imagination!~: Just imagine how much further the wright flyer would go if it had a turbo prop!

flyoz

My Feedback: (7)

HI VG I can soo identify with your feelings:
To be frank this happens in every endeavour hobby, sport or otherwise. Especially if you have a real passion. Rarely will you find others with equal passion. Your very lucky if you even get a mixed bag of interested 10 Percenters !!
As others have pointed mout the only cure is to be in it for your own self and be happy if you ever bump into a kindred soul.
The other sure fire solution to stoking your waning passion is to impart knowledge on others, Be they young, Newbies, or older blokes who are trying something new ( most of us wouldn't mind a hand or advice, or a hand hold) we just often don't know whos available or willing to assist ort who has X skills--- so set up a brag or hobby skills/ interest resume page on the club web site for each member .
You will be surprised who has what in their backgrounds .
Teaching/ coaching /mentoring is the holy grail for a feeling of fulfilment.

Instead of just fun fliys why not set up shed visits, swap meets BBs (BYO, as this is a sure way to elicit some investment by others)., Meet the spouse/ kids days etc Just some thoughts.

abufletcher

In reality, there are really several different hobbies involved. Building is one hobby. Flying is another hobby. Socializing is yet another hobby. Where and how they intersect is different for each person. For me 80% of my energy (and enthusiasm) goes into building. And maybe 15% is getting out there and flying my models in all sorts of weather. The remaining 5% is "hanging with the guys" (who in my case, with few exceptions, only speak Japanese). Maybe I'd shoot the breeze more if it were an English-speaking group...but then perhaps not.

TSky28

My Feedback: (3)

What is this Permatex runway substance? BING comes up with gasket adhesive material. Do you have any information on this?

Thanks!

tunakuts3d

Look here http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/ques...ay-fabric.html

abufletcher

Too bad I can't just fly here. This is the grass field at the university where I work. Since I live in a house on the campus my "commute" to work is simply a walk across this field to my office.

Nieuport nut

My Feedback: (10)

They wouldn't let you fly a small electric there? You mayn't like them, but I'd give it a try for the huge convenience it might allow.

Martin

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

I think the stuff is called Geotex.

tunakuts3d

Petro-Mat , Geo Tech fabric , Pro-Pex are the names of some of the runway fabrics that are mentioned in the link I posted earlier.

N11

My Feedback: (10)

100% on that Don (well except for the exception on language BUT seems the same at the field trying to explain why I built it to a clubmate who only understands just flying and ARFS )

fledermaus

Re: Geotech fabric runway (a side issue on this thread I know). Our club put a 600 foot Geotech runway in this year and it has been excellent. We were forced to move from our previous field which had grass runways that we'd worked on for many years, and the new field was not going to be fit for grass landings for many years to come. The Geotech route was excellent. If your club needs a new runway and can't do pavement (like us), it is a good solution. Check us out at http://www.whamrc.org/airfield/

fledermaus

And, on the main topic, I like building at least as much as I like flying. Luckily my club seems to be open to ARF and Built alike. Most of the builders also fly some ARFS, and the ARFers respect the effort put into building, so everyone gets along just fine (mostly). Maybe your frustration is because of a lack of that last bit in your club?

Marty79

I have been lucky both clubs I have belonged to have been good groups of people. Both smaller clubs of about 50 members. you can fly anything you want. nobody cares if you fly ARF's, Kits or Scratch built. I have all three. They all know that I like to build more than fly and that's cool with them. The only requirement is that you must be a member of the AMA no ifs, ands or buts.

acdii

I just got my membership in the exact kind of club. Small group of guys who enjoy bs'ing, building and flying. Only rule is use Common Sense and have an active AMA card. Oh one other rule, no more than 10 flyers on the field at any one time.

ARUP

Henri Coanda developed a primitive 'turbine' even before WWI so how 'bout that! The year was 1910. Nothing new under the sun.

Hossfly

Back to first post this topic: While I have been aware of numerous items such as yours, VG, I am never in a problem with model aviation as long as it has wings and a propeller up front. However I am somewhat off the ball-court with the -- IMO -- the asinine politics of the AMA, the new-comers that think most of us old timers are stupid,
and should do nothing but keep the flying facility in pristine shape for the lesser experienced to fly whatever, and whenever, at their - the newbies - option.

I just seem to anymore have little interest to maintain several Trainers ready and then furnish all the models along with props, glow plugs, and fuel to teach these guys how to fly. That is more-so when they don't understand or care to learn the aerodynamic basics. If they did, they might find the equipment is seldom why they crash.
I don't anymore loan equipment out. They only want to obtain their equipment after they learn. With that attitude, I never let them go far as I recover MY equipment pretty fast. It seems that very few understand my position. I use to instruct at least 60% of my field time. In the last two years I have only soloed one guy out. He has discipline, talent, and "want-To". An ex Marine Fighter pilot has no problems with learning. It's the 20-40 group that I shy away from. Not many newbies now. My main club has dropped from an average of 125+ to about 85+/-.

Yep I rather build than fly anymore. But why build if not to fly! Oh well the Crappie are running and this summer the small mouth bass will be going good up north.

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

We had a member step up to the plate last year to volunteer as the "Trainer co-ordinator". I have always helped with instruction in the past as well. We did not have one member come out to fly on trainer night as a student. I wonder if the easy foam models the LHS now push, are the new way of learning? Of course it will take longer to learn about the engines and such later on, but this is another dynamic that has changed. Learning on such easy small planes, instruction is not needed. With that, we are starting to see a slight up surge in membership.

buzzard bait

We always make it clear from the start that the student should figure on having his own plane after a couple of sessions on the club trainer, buy some fuel, and take a turn on the mower. We took the view that if any instructor felt burdened by any part of the training it was time to shift the burden more to the student. That is never a problem with someone who wants to learn. But we hardly get anyone to train at our club anymore either. We've actually re-trained some older members who'd gotten rusty, and that's fun too.

Maybe you're right and the electrics have resulted in more people teaching themselves. That's what I did 30 years ago, with a TF Schoolmaster and a Cox 049. But eventually I wanted the camaraderie of a club. A couple more years and I wanted bigger planes that I couldn't fly in the local park.

I miss the days when our Mall Show was a big event. It's where people brought the planes they had been building all winter and then you would see what everyone was going to fly that year. It was really exciting. I always felt proud to bring a new plane, and eager to see what others brought. That died when ARFs started showing up at the Mall Show. Nothing I can do about it except keep doing what I like.

Jim

chistech

30+ years ago my club was founded by me and a few others in my Dad's basement. I served as pres and VP through the course of the first 6 years or so. We founded the club on the love of RC. We got our AMA charter and we welcomed everyone with a smile and handshake. We had pattern flyers with retracts, some FS guys when the Saito's first became popular, some ducted fan guys, heli guys, and you get the drift. We we able to obtain a super nice flying area and a few of us would cut the grass and maintain the area. We had about 20 members and of course, back then, all were builders.

After about 6-8yrs (can't remember) I got out of the club as my life was changing with kids, my dad passed and I had to run the family business, and I bought/moved into another larger house. I had no time for RC as the kids were growing and all in sports. Well 30yrs later my youngest is 23 and I stopped working so hard with him on his motorcrossing about 3yrs ago as he had decided to follow his mother's ideas on his racing (I'm divorced from his mom) and went in a different direction. I had seen an old member of the club that I really liked and he asked me to join again about 4-5 yrs back.

When I got back into the club I was amazed at the direction it had gone. It was a club of only 30 guys but that was about it. Most only flew Ugly Sticks with huge tires and the field was a mess. There was little motivation and no one looked at the future, only the present. Gone were a large amount of diversified pilots and it was mostly a fuel powered fun flyer type crowd. While this is no real problem, the problem was no one did ANYTHING! They paid for grass cutting, paid the rent, and paid for the meeting place with dues leaving less than $100 in the treasury at the end of the year. It was kind of a country club atmosphere.

I'm a future kind of looking guy and knew the club had to change for the better to exist into the future. I became the unofficial event coordinator. I came up with a club fun fly (they club had never had one) which included a cookout for $10 ea. This event was to help raise our treasury coffers and for members to meet members they've never met. My wife did the food shopping (read sales, coupons) and I had about 6 volunteers for the cooking, ticket taking etc.The was also a table with donated items for a small auction and raffle. The event was open to members, families and anyone who wanted to spectate. I can say that the first FF we had netted $460 when it was all said and done. Some comments that were made at the next meeting were that most FF's tend to loose money and ours made a lot. Later in the year I came up with a float fly in honor of one of our members who had secured one of the best FF locations here in the NE. The first year is was just a FF get together but the following years it has become a memorial for that member and the monies raised now go to our new youth program.

We now have a total of 7 club events each year with two of those paid events that we put on for our "customers". They hire us each year as part of their entertainment for their events. Of course, both of them have large enough areas for flying. Our treasury went from $100 at the end of the year to almost $5000 in less than four years. We were able to accomplish this by a number of things. I became the official event coordinator and introduced a lot of programs to be voted on and most have been accepted. Here is what we did:

1. Put in place a member duty fee. The duty fee is $30 per year if you decide to do nothing for the club in the calendar year. Your following year's dues will be $45 + $30 or $75. But, if a member decides to do a duty (cut grass, work a show, work field day, work at a youth program, etc. that duty fee is waived. It is arranged for different days and times during the week to accommodation member's different schedules. If a duty is performed the $30 fee is waived. While some thought this was to punish, it was meant to get more member participation in the club, not to make money. Guess what, Out of 40 members we only had 3 who willingly paid their fee, the others all performed their duty. There is a health and age cut off so don't look at this as a forced kind of "nazi" environment. All members now accept it. understand it, and actually like it as our dues have not had to go up.

2. We bought a tractor, storage shed, and bagger. This alone saved the club $1000+ per season. In less than two seasons the investment made a return. When this idea came up there was again push back. Members said the landowner wouldn't allow the shed, others said no one would cut the grass, etc. That is the reason for #1. Guess what, it has worked extremely well with the landowner even commenting why we hadn't done it sooner. One guy who cuts likes the fact he can tell his wife he HAS to cut the grass so he could go to the field without her complaining and he could fly when he was done!

3. Club events: we now have 7. Guys now like showing up to show off their flying skills, their models, working with the adults and kids, etc. Plus, working these events goes with #1 again.

4. Youth program: the club applied and received a tag grant as we had started a program with the Boys and Girls Clubs of America. While this program has ended, the club has continued a youth program using funds raised by our annual FF to fund it. People who work the FF and youth program again satisfy their duty fee. See #1

5. It was brought to our attention that we had a considerable amount of members who attended meeting but didn't come to the field. They would build and enjoyed the hobby but didn't come to fly. Turns out these members, some who've been members for years, really couldn't fly well or not at all and were too shy or embarrassed to ask for help. The idea was brought up by a member to start a 3rd Sat. of the month buddy box day for all members and any guests with concentration on members. (we have other buddy box days) Instructor pilots also are doing duty fees and again, goes back to #1. You can't believe but this program alone has increased member participation at the field by 5+ members.

6. Field improvements: because of #1, we have members willing to do things like build more starting benches, weed and feed the field, clear brush in the parking areas, clear the road down to the field (this was a lot of work, 3 days, and inspired the land owner to forgo our yearly rent for all the work we did). Rolling the field once a year with a 6 ton vibratory roller rented for less that $300. We also share the cost with another club so it's peanuts to get a totally smooth grass field. We also have a small 60 gal. roller that we tow behind while cutting every 2-3 cuttings.

While the past 4-5 yrs have gone on some members did ask why the duty program, why did we need money, etc. The reasoning for the duty program I already explained. I couldn't believe that members didn't understand the need for there to be money in the treasury. I explained that our field's current landowner was getting older and might sell the field and the cost of acquiring another field is in the 3-5k mark. Well don't you know, this past fall the landowner told us he would be selling this coming summer-fall. He did stipulate that he is trying to sell it with the possibility of our club staying as our field is just a small piece of a large, rented out corn field that he assumes the new owner would probably leave as is. The thing is our club is now looking for another flying site if needed and now we at least have the funds to open that site. If we keep both fields we can now get rid of our membership cap and enlarge the club enough to support two fields.

Through all this our members have been the best and our club has been known for being the nicest group of guys and one of the best clubs around. Recently this just changed because of one biased member (another bias member joined in with him) who literally attacked some new applicants when they introduced themselves and mentioned the type of flying they wanted to do. (float fly) Our FF area is on a pristine location and we have 1/5th of the shoreline to use with permission. This flying spot is insured by the club as one of our normal flying sites and all members of the club are allowed to fly there. Of course few members float fly and the member who got in the faces of these applicants is one of them. He feels he needs to protect this spot for himself and the other club members who FF. (I am one too, but feel everyone should be welcomed with open arms, just like I did when I founded the club). If his verbal attack wasn't enough, he sent out an email the next day to all members/applicants (off my distribution list which goes to all interested in our club) basically stating some wrong doing with procedure to allow more members to join and FF. The immediate response was 3 newly voted in members rescinded their memberships with one even sending back an email that he'd seen this sort of thing before and wanted no part of it. This "bad blood" member had ruined a reputation that had been grown for 30yrs in just a couple days.

There was a big hoopala on this whole thing with many members contacting the president and not liking what had gone on. This one member had accused some of wrongdoing and intimidated others. At the meeting the president tried to handle the issue in a polite way without calling out the two members involved. Later in the meeting the one member who joined in the verbal attack stood up and apologized for his behavior and stated that he realized things change and members of the club are allowed to fly on any club flying area. He did look directly at the applicants and apologized directly to them too. This was commendable and the right thing to do. The other member on the other hand stood up and defended his email and the content! So this member believes it is OK to accuse, intimidate, and to have members rescind their memberships because he feels they should be flying in "his" pond! This is the conclusion I and others have come up with and believe if he feels he's right, he will do the same things in the future. There is talk about voting him out if he even thinks about trying it again as no club can afford this type of behavior.

So going back to the OP. I was fed up when I first joined back into the club because of the lack of "club" that was present. My love of the club grew as the members all pulled together to make our small club a great club with some of the best flying areas around. I then I got fed up with this member with his biased and prejudiced feeling toward others. His belief he is correct just floors me! So now I thought about quitting as the Event Coordinator because when your are an event coordinator you are often the "voice" of the club meeting and talking with lots of people preaching the virtues of the club. I felt it would now be hard for me to consciously speak the virtues of our club knowing we have such a bad egg as that member is. To tell people that everyone is welcomed with a smile and handshake no matter their flying preference would be a lie for me to tell them.
Discussing my quitting with my wife she told me that there was no way I could quit. I've done so much to turn the club around that I can't let one guy ruin my love for the club. I have decided not to quit but instead, work harder at promoting the "welcome all" attitude within the club. Sorry for the long post but I thought I'd share what's worked for preparing our club into the future both in money and member mindsets. Some of the good and some of the bad that I've been through and my decision to stick with it even when I thought I was fed up enough to quit.

Hossfly

Mr. Chistec, you are definitely a most excellent individual, and I, for one, certainly recognize your great work for RC aeromodeling and your efforts far beyond those of 99'9% of the aeromodeler. In my following remarks, I certainly am not trying to make some upper posiion as you are a truly dedicated person to the RC Sport. OTOH your work for RC and mine are somewhat alike, only yours has been tougher
.
I became a member of my main club some 29 years ago when I moved back to TX, 1985. In 1996 the club had lost its facility for about the 4th time, twice since I was there. At my time of retirement, Feb. 1996, I had negotiated with the site owners to let us stay until April First of that year. I placed one of my IRAs, into a safe Trust, purchased a 100 acre plot of clear smooth land as an IRA unit, $250,000 cash. I leased 30 acres of that land to the club. One year later they bought 15 acres, at the price I paid for it, $2500 per acre, with my financing it into my Trust IRA. Later they bought another 15 acres, same price and deal.. I located and they retained a Hay Farmer and he rented the land from me for Hay. I only charged him to keep the 70 remaining acres in pristine condition, thus allowing my land to come under Texas Farm Land tax law. He got the hay and did all the work. The Club sub-leased to farmer for same. Club had 100 acres to operate on. I held the mortgage on the club's land. As it being an IRA, I could NOT be an officer in the club but I could make suggestions.
About 8 years ago a new bunch of folks came into the club. Good Guys but not use to the discipline Jetero needed for the position they and I were in. Long story short they took over the club. Since I (My IRA) owned the remaining 70 acres, along with their contract which included the Club's rules, I could say things and had a kind of hold over the club. They DID NOT like that. Now my contract provided monthly payments like 30 years and annual interest each year at PRIME MINUS ONE, reset each November.

A person came and approached me, and offered $7000.oo per acre for entire 70 remaining acres. I told the club that for that profit, I had to sell, however if the club would buy 20 more acres at $5000.00 per acre, same deal as going, I would turn the offer down. So in the time, they agreed to same. Then a club member negotiated with them to finance their 30 acres and the additional 20 acres at something like 6.5% for 20 Years. The club took it and I was out of the financing world.
The new guy was in it for profit. I got paid off, and some 2-3 years ago I sold off the remaining 50 acres at a decent profit, while still holding a good note on one 20 acre plot.

Still a member of the Club. A very good club but it could be better. Looking forward to getting the current VP into Pres. next year. Current Pres is a really good individual, did 100 missions in Vietnam in back seat of F-4. Great aeromodeler, bar none, but he is every body's friend. That does not work in the business world as the mission (Business) must come first. Regardless of what one thinks, running any business is a JOB! SO Club Officers, depending on your Club's interest, RUN the business, Socialize second.

I opened and run a Hobby Shop for some 8 years on Northwest Highway, in Mt. Prospect, IL, Aero Sports and Crafts 1970-1978 when a furlough from United Airlines was sending pilots back home. The worst thing was when hiring Help, modelers and finding them padding their own pockets with stuff and $$ from the cash register. Broke my heart. No way, never again and so it is. If it is still there, IL folks visit Venture Hobby in NW Mt. Prospect, on Dundee Rd. close to Buffalo Grove.

acdii

Been to Venture, but heard recently it went to crap due to them focusing on non RC stuff. Same with Ships Chandler, I guess the old man passed it to his son who turned it into a gaming place, and it folded too.

chistech

Wow Hossfly, that's quite an resume. I wish we had one of our club members who could purchase the current field we fly on now. It is going up for sale and hopefully the new owner will let us stay. If not we need another flying area so we have already been looking for one. Always have to keep looking.

abufletcher

Hossfly, I'm impressed with your business acumen, and that's what any large organization needs at the helm. I'm lucky that I'm in a very small club (in rural Japan). We have fewer than 10 regularly flying members, minimal facilities, next to no organization, and no events...and I think most of the guys are fine with that. I am. We just go out to the field and fly. Sometimes we mow the lawn. Most times we don't have to. There are no "stations," no "frequency board" (since almost everyone flies 2.4 and I've never seen more than one person flying at a time), no nothing. That's not strictly true. There's an annual membership fee of about $100 a year (which is cheap for Japan).

acdii

This is the kind of club I am joining this year. Took a while to locate too. No events, just come out and fly, shoot the bull, enjoy the weather, jib each other over the planes we crash, er, fly. First time I was out there, one fo the guys had this foamy electric glider that looked like it had more glue on it than foam. Flew all of 30 seconds, and went into the weeds. We all laughed, they guy said, well, guess I didn't use enough glue, and went and retrieved it. When I drove up that day, he had been flying a bipe and I had stopped and watched before pulling up to park so I wouldnt interfere with his LOS. He was tossing it around, and going 3D with it. Good flyer which is why everyone was laughing at the weed wacker glider.