wingstrut

Gentlemen, I have a conflicting problem, on my 1/3 scale pup the Vickers machine gun was fed from the right side and it ejected the shells out the bottom of the fuselage through an elongated tube, now I noticed that the left side of the gun, on most pups had a chute that I assume that the empty cartridges where ejected over the side of the fuselage, if this was the case where did the cartridge belt go.Maybe I should just ask how did the Vickers gun operate on the Sopwith pup, I have researched the internet for several days and can't find anything.
Help would be much appreciated on this subject.Thanks, Ron

abufletcher

Here are a couple of photos from the mini datafile on the Vickers.

wingstrut

abufletcher, Thank you for the photo's, the one showing the belt returning to the fuselage is a great help, but I noticed that on most of my photo's they show a chute coming from the left side of the gun across the fuselage and looks like it might be for ejecting the empty shells over the left side just in front of the cockpit.
Have you any info on what looks like a field mod.

Thanks again, Ron

abufletcher

I'll have another look through the datafile. Are you modeling a particular Pup? If so, can you post a photo of the original you're modeling? Here's a photo from the Pup datafile showing an ejection shoot...which may be for the BELT rather than the shells. Take a look at this video. It looks like the shells fall out the bottom rather than being ejected out the left side.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApmMbiF0nVs

wingstrut

Thank you, that was a very informative video, That is what I was wondering, if that side chute was for the empty casings or the empty belt.
By looking at the video the chute must have been for the belt, which seems a little odd, but in 1917 they must have had a good reason to do it that way because I have no less than twenty photo's from the archives that show that chute.
The plane that I am modeling is of Capt. Stuart Harvey Pratt's pup A7327, and the drawings show that chute, there is only two photo's of his aircraft and they are so far away you can't tell.
I always thought the belt went inside the aircraft to be re-used over again, ...........that's what I get for thinking.
The video that you sent confirms the theory that the chute was used for the belt and not the empty shells.

Thank you again, that was a great help................Ron

abufletcher

I had always assumed the same thing as well. So thank YOU for asking this question! I can imagine two possible reasons for keeping the casings: 1) the combined weight might have been important to keeping the plane in trim or 2) brass was in much shorter supply than cloth.

abufletcher

By the way, check THIS out! I bought these all-metal 1/6 scale versions of the Vickers on eBay a couple of years ago. Pretty darn cool! I initially thought I might be able to use the weight to balance out my extremely short-nosed Snipe. But I ended up using the WB plastic guns.

abufletcher

Actually, in the Vickers mini datafile it shows the installation in a SPAD where there is in fact a "take up spool" for belt inside the fuselage (next to the pilot).

wingstrut

I always heard that they kept the belt and threw away the brass, but maybe later in the war they got rid of everything to keep the weight down.
But I bet they got rid of everything to help eliminate a malfunction and possible backup that could cause the gun to jam...........Just pondering, no proof.
The pup had a drum that the belt went into and they ejected the empty casings out the bottom of the fuselage, when I saw the chute, that threw me for a loop, that is why I was searching for clarification.
As for the two Vickers...all I can say is WOW!!! you lucky rascal, those guns are gorgeous, I'd build an airplane just so I could use those guns, have you tried to fire them? They look like they would work.
I wish I could find a 1/3 scale metal Vickers.

Thanks again, Pup Nut !, Ron

abufletcher

Unfortunately, in terms of use on a flying scale model, these metal guns add their weight mostly around the CG so all you get is a heavier model rather than being able to replace lead with "scale weight" as I had hoped. Also these cast metal versions are modeled on the ground-use version of the Vickers with the water-cooling jacket and handles (as seen in the video). The version used on aircraft was lightened and used an air-cooled jacket with louvers and in most cases the handles were removed.

wingstrut

Yes I know, I just got carried away, Someone did a fantastic job of re-creating those guns.
I fly a 1/3 scale pup and an extra 5 lbs. wouldn't even be noticed, I had a 1/4 scale pup and an added 2 lbs. was very noticeable.