jpanhalt

The original blueprint from the plan service in the USA comes with Dick Graham's signature under the statement, "Designed and Drawn by Dick Graham." Jim Pepino's name is nowhere to be found on the plans.

Where have you seen Penino's name associated with the design?

The reason for side tow hooks is to avoid the adverse trim effects of having the attachment well above the CG. The rationale is somewhat similar to using a bridle to launch quarter scale off of a winch. In any event, the attachment points will be in the rigid structure just ahead of the transition to fabric.

John

Edit: From the IMAA site, "...[designed by] Dick Graham and marketed by our old friend Jim Pepino of Scale Plans and Photo Service."

Gtarling

Jpanhalt - The UK supplier, Belair Models (www.belairkits.com), told me that Jim's name was on the plan as well as Dick Graham's - your edit probably explains it all, as Belair is buying the plans from the Scale Planes & Photo Service.

Thanks for the info regarding the tow hooks. I'm not too sure how much the vertical position of the hook(s) will affect the towing characteristics, so will plump for the simple route and fit one on top to start with. If that doesn't work out, I'll have to have a re-think! Now to start thinking about the working dust-hopper!

jpanhalt

I have used Sig Koverall, which is similar if not identical to light-weight Stits. The directions suggest brushing the first one or two coats of clear. I used thinned nitrate dope and brushed (as per full scale) the first two coats in opposite directions (i.e., spanwise and chordwise). The reason is to get good adhesion to the dacron. Then, I sprayed all subsequent coats. There were no problems whatsoever with peeling from masking tape or time (about 10 years ago). I have also seen a recommendation to use a thin solution of gelatin for the first coat to promote adhesion, but I have never tried that. The key apparently is not to spray the first coat, because the material may just sit on the surface and not penetrate the fibers. John

Gtarling

John - Thanks for that. It's clear to me that more research will be required prior to settling on a covering and finishing method. The Stits materials do sound attractive, but the thought of using a paint thinned with MEK definitely is NOT!

musterpilot

have you guys used solalex fabric? I have found this the best for covering for scale fabric aircraft it is fuel proof , also it comes in natural color or colors . eg cub yellow ect , you can paint it or leave it natural no dopeing or undercoat , but I use to spray a gray undercoat when I was spraying on a color whith a very light sand making sure I didnt cut the weave on the fabric hope this info helps . see my pawnee this has been covered with SOLARTEX all my models are painted with automotive acrylic paint

swixtt

just in case you wanted to fly this one in FS X ... it's a fletcher su24

http://www.simviation.com/fsxprops6.htm

Gtarling

Airservices - Yes, have tried Solartex in the past - it's 'OK' but does need some sort of paint coat in order to stop it from getting grubby. I much prefer Oratex these days - it's a dream to apply and doesn't seem to slacken off in the hot sun. The colours don't need any form of finishing coat, though you can apply it if you wish - I'll be looking at their matching paint system when I get my Pawnee built. BTW - what's 'fuel-proof' ?

musterpilot

well it is suppose to stop fuel soaking through the fabric so far I have found this so with solartex btw if you go to AGPLANE.NL you will find the original colors for the 150 pawnee just click on brochures and it will come up with all the info you want on any agplane ever made

Gtarling

airservices - I'm afraid that my 'fuel' consists solely of electrons and I don't need to worry about them soaking through any kind of covering! I've visited agplanes.nl - very useful information there and I have downloaded all the applicable brochures. I have no intention of painting it in standard factory colours unless someone can come up with a very good reason why I should. I was rather thinking of using the scheme below, but am still trying to find more photos of it -

Gtarling

Update - my Pawnee plan arrived today and has immediately given me a problem! The Dick Graham plan is for a PA-25-150 Pawnee, but there appears to be none of these in the UK, which I could visit for taking photos etc. There are, however, plenty of PA-25-235's! So, how can I get some decent photos of a -150? I did think of converting the plan to the -235, but I'm fairly certain the cowls are very different, so I don't think this would be practical. Any other ideas?

jpanhalt

You are correct, the cowls are different, but you will find that many of the original 150's have been converted to the later style cowl. Most of the other differences are in the fuselage. There are also internal differences to the wing and a fairing between the leading edge of the wing and fuselage. That change was important for flight characteristics. Virtually all 150's were updated to have the fairing. Agplane.nl has some photos of the earlier version. You can also check the brochures setion on that site. John

musterpilot

gtarling the cowel used on the 150 pawnee was from the piper tri-pacer also tailplane and main wings like jpanhalt said go to agplane.nl and you should get all the info you need on the 150 including the colour schemes hope this helps John

Gtarling

Thanks chaps, but it appears that I may now have a problem! The Dick Graham plan is definitely for the -150 model, but the cowl available from Fiberglass Specialties is listed as - 'Piper Pawnee PA 25-235, 1/4 scale Dick Graham cowl' I guess I'll have to wait until my cowl arrives to be certain, but it looks like I may have to do a 'conversion' to a -235! Shame, because I'd just found a nice -150 scheme to use! Anyone know what cowl is in the TMRC Pawnee kit?

outacontrol41

My Feedback: (9)

Cowl? What cowl? You mean you're supposed to get a cowl with a TMRC kit? Really??? News to me.[sm=punching.gif]

jpanhalt

The 25-235 cowl is very close to this cowl on a 25-150 that I mentioned. I have not measured the 235 cowl, but I assume it is a little longer because one is going from 4 cylinders to 6 cylinders. The O-320 engine (150 HP) on the airplane in the photo had been changed to a O-360 (180 HP). It is a 1960 or 1961 model (I can confirm that, if important). The tail number is N6238Z. I think the earlier cowl certainly has the advantage in esthetics, but after years of service, cracking and absence of replacement parts has simply forced a lot of owners to change to the simplier form.

Gtarling

Thanks for the help chaps! I'll wait for my cowl to arrive before deciding which variant to model. I quite like this -150 though!

outacontrol41

My Feedback: (9)

Does anyone besides me, think it would be extremely cool if Hangar 9 could market the Pawnee pictured below as an ARF?? The photo below taken from JR Aerotow 2007 and as I understand it they've been using this as a tow plane for years. Am I just wishful thinking?
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Gtarling - If you're waiting for a cowl or a kit from TMRC, don't hold your breath whilst you wait, my good fellow. As I've made clear in previous posts, I've been waiting for a cowl from that chap since I ordered it in November 2006....still waiting for it. If you receive yours I'll be happy for you.

jpanhalt

It is my understanding from talking with various individuals at the Toledo 2006 show and from talking with Fiberglass Specialties that the only commercially available cowls for the quarter scale Pawnee are the 235 version, which can be used on the 235 or 150 HP airframes ("modernized version" ). The TMRC kit is presumably the same as the modernized version. No one has received one of his cowls or has reprted differently.

If you eventually get the TMRC cowl, please post a picture. John

outacontrol41

My Feedback: (9)

Okay...I will. But at this point I've basically given up.

jpanhalt

Actually, my request was to Gtarling, as he still seems to have hope. But, any pictures help. Your thread on the build is very much appreciated.

I almost bit on buying the kit in December 2005. Now that I have studied the Graham plan more and measured two, full-size examples, I am glad I didn't. Graham did a supurb job based on what resources I think he had available to him. The fuselage is an interesting structure, with the top longeron tapering from a different station (forward cabin) than the bottom tapers from (aft of wing T.E.). Graham describes the construction well, but I really had to study the plan to see how he did it. John

outacontrol41

My Feedback: (9)

True. I had to study it also to get it right but overall it was easy. I'm at the fuse sheeting stage now.

Gtarling

Chaps - just to clarify things - my cowl is on order from Belair Kits in the UK, along with the short kit. I know that they aren't getting the cowls from TMRC, so have assumed that they are getting them from Fibreglass Specialties, as they are the only manufacturer that seems to be producing these cowls. If Belair aren't getting them that way, they must have found someone else to make them. I almost bought a TMRC kit a year or so ago, but am glad now that I held off.

outacontrol41

My Feedback: (9)

Tom from Florida, U.S. got creative and made his own cowl from scratch. This homemade version turned out great and fits TMRC kit he built. Hope he does not mind me borrowing his pictures, but that is some good work there.

Gtarling

Update - my cowl and parts should be shipping this Friday, so I expect to have them early next week. After further digging, it seems that the cowl I'm getting is the -235 type, so I now need to find a nice aircraft to model! Has anyone here actually built one of these models? There's a couple of points on the plan that I'm not sure of and would like clarified if anyone can help.

outacontrol41

My Feedback: (9)

I kindly refer you to post #590 of this thread.