Who can tell me the best way to put detailed graphics on an aircraft. I was thinking about a computer graphics or photo. I can either color copy it onto a clear adhesive back film, or should I just print it on paper, stick on with spray adhesive and put a clear coat over it.

I'm new to this and was just wondering what everyone has done.
Thanks for any help

Do a forum search on the word "Decal" in several of these forums.

I have done what you want to do with Micromark Decal paper for color lasers. But I took my Internet downloaded images on a floppy to a copy business with a color laser who loaded my paper into their equipment. This is expensive (about $2/sheet for the paper and $10 for the use of the color laser.

Also if you use the transparent decal paper you will not get any white colors unless you are applying the decal to a white background or you first apply an underlayment of white covering that matches the size of the decal.

If you use non-transparent decal paper then you will have white between any letters or images, etc.

There used to be an ink jet printer made (now out of production) that did use white ink!

I can tell you of one system that I have used already which seems to work fine and that is to run your covering through a plotter. I have run Monocoat through an inkjet plotter, and plotted directly onto silkspan. The inks they use are set up for mylar, and will not smudge once let set for a few minutes, and will not run due to water.

I just draw up the image in a graphics program to correct size and position on the sheet of film. I box off or measure off the appropriate areas, and cram the full sheet with items which are to be cut and applied afterwards. The disk and material is then run to an architectural/engineering places of business late in the day. I feed in the material to the plotter and begin the S/W and plot/print routine. In about 3 minutes, out comes either black or full color printed Monocoat. Take it home and cut up the squares and apply. This routine has been shown in RCM on a couple of times, but no one questioned how it was done.


Wm.

Excellent idea. I actually own a color inkjet plotter (I'm an architect), but I never thought of actually putting monokote in it.
Thanks for the tip, I'll have to experiment.

i own a sign shop in lancaster pa and have done graphics for a bunch of planes and would be happy to help if i can. i have a 30" wide vinyl cutter and make custom graphics for cars and signs. if you are not in that much of a hurry i would be happy to donate some vinyl to this wonderful sport. the only drawback is i do this kind of thing on weekends as my workdays are usually busy. of course it is 9:50 am right now! ha ha . pm me or post if i can be of assistance.
michael

Allisonmo2,

You have an excellent tool there. I have had some vinyl signs made for my business and was going to look into having them make some graphics. Maybe I could send them to you. I could give you a computer file with the graphics. It will be a little while before I'm ready though. Shoot me an email if you are interested.

[email protected]

We began a few years ago by doing up the image in Autocad then using my Calcomp plotter to plot in black ink onto tissue. Found some colored ink, and did some stars and bars, A/C numbers, crew chief names etc. all on one sheet. Cut to about to size and doped to fuselage. The inks are waterproof, and fuel proof after doped.

Then tried on Monocoat using injet. Got a so-so result. It is not as opaque as Koor-i-noor ink. You need to CLEAN the surface of all grease very well. Then run through the plotter. Oh, and if you botch up a plot, just use Formula 409 and remove the ink. Try again.

Sign printers use the plotters also. Trick is to ask your local installer as to who he services and who has one. Sometimes they are mumm, and won't tell. Pretend you are interested in buying a plotter and want a demo. THEN, out comes the local users names and what software they are using.

I had been using Micrografx Designer, but no one uses it anymore, so am switching to Corel-DRAW! soon.


Wm.

I know some people lightly scuff monokote with a high grit sandpaper in order to paint it. Perhaps this would be a good idea before running it through the plotter in order to take the ink better. Just a thought.

scuffing monokote may make the inks adhere a little better but more likely the ink will bleed into all the little crevases sandpaper would create. not much but the best part of and inkjet printer is the crisp clear edges it gives. i also have a hp3500cp 48" printer. you all keep referring to inkjets as plotters but that is actually wrong. a plotter cuts vinyl. a printer prints inks on vinyl. without going to a 25,000.00 machine they don't do both.

also dan,
i just e-mailed you

The Alps printer printed white , CoosBay do you do heli stenciling, like what is on modern jets ?

ALLISONMO2:

I preferr to use the terminology that the equipment manufacturer uses. Per Calcomp advertisement, they invented the computer plotter back about 1959, well before thought was given to cutting vinyl. If you go to their site today, or that of H-P, or OCE' etc., they all use the term plotter someplace in their descriptions of product. Those who cut vinyl or laser cut wood, refer to the equipment as being a cutter, not a plotter. They often operate on plotter language, or CNC language, but a few also operate on raster printer language. When the "large format" inkets, and the piezo came around in the 1980's, they were still referred to as plotters. I think you need to take it up with the aides at T.M.S and other repairmen over at Lorand like Ralph McGranahan and tell them they have been using the wrong terminology for the past thirty years.

Back in about 1969, a fellow I worked asside was going through the complicated calculation efforts to print on wood. He was interested in Cleveland kits. During lunch hour and evenings he did all the math, then cut the paper recording tape. He taped the simple sheets of wood to a flatbed plotter and blue ink plotted the lines onto each. I don't remember much beyond that other than it took him the whole lunch hour to calculate the necessary points for one part to be plotted out. Sort of wish I had that flatbed plotter today though.

GUARDIAN:

Most of my work with plotters at present is driven through Autocad. You can set up most any printer/plotter in Windows and call as a default. I set up the Micrografx to call up the plotter for the work noted. We were working in Windows 98 at the time using an H-P 650c on individual sheet feed mode. I could go to Autocad and call up the H-P and it too ran off the desired linework. The thing with Micrografx was that it was easier to hand draw the lines, as compared to Autocad. The two systems did not share the same text fonts though. Also with my 25 year old PLOTTER, I am able to load up any color of ink needed for the project. White always goes down first, and made sure it is dry before next color goes on. I have to batch up the colors which I get from Koh-i-noor to get different tints.

Moreover what you need to do is to decide which font best matches the appearances. I had been doing printing on yellow Monocoat for an Army Stearman trainer in Romand as it best matched what I saw at Chino. Just do the work in a graphics program, then run a common used blueprint paper through the plotter for testing alignment of everything, and then run the Monocoat through under enhansed mode. This ain't fast to learn, but does work.

I also once did some reverse printing onto some Britain's straight blue gummed decal paper like they use at Microscale. The image on the paper was then cut to approximate size and taped to the model. I wetted the paper slightly, let dry overnight. Next day I wetted it again, and slid the paper off, leaving the lettering etc. Absolutely no decal film nor discolorization was left. The work looked as though it was stenciled on. It took numerous tries to get to work, but once figured out, it worked well. I don't have any of the paper anymore, or I would do more of it. I would have to order 1-2 reams of it now. I know I am going to get some reader mentioning that I could get one or two sheets of decal paper at some place, however this material is unlike what is sold over the counter today. This routine would work well if you wanted to apply tiny stenciling to helicopter rotor blades.



Wm.

i stand corrected. didn't mean to ruffle any feathers.
mike

CoosBay,

Does the ink on the monokote hold up to the heat of the iron? I assume it does, since you have done it, I'm just surprised.
I have got to get some monokote and experiment with my HP 1050C.

Dan:

That was my initial worry. I didn't even apply the material to the A/C frame before trying it out. The ink sort of imbedded itself into the material. It shrunk right along with the plastic material.

Now, I also warn you, our local shop only sells genuine Monocoat, so have only tried it on their glossy stuff. I have also tried it on LiteSpan (from the U.K.) and had no problems there too. While on the Lite Span, it seemed to get less opaque, so that is why I went up to a heavy application. Once set and applied it averages out like the Monocoat.

Would be interested in finding out how it works on other brands of material. We did some "interior" or reversed plotting on Solartext two years ago for a glider. It was transparent, and showed the fellow's AMA numbers on through. Did this on a pen plotter though, not an inkjet style. I saw the crushed wing sitting in his garage, and never brought up the application situation with him.

He later set up his home H-P deskjet to run long sheets, and now cuts the Solartex to 8" wide strips and runs very long sets of lettering though it. It prints in the middle, then keeps going until all the covering is out the end. It comes out a bit streaky on long flames and arcs. Not noticible on simple text. This may be the hot set-up for most builders, as 8" wide by 36" long is good enough for many aircraft wings and fuselage.


Wm.

why don't you guys go to a sign shop and get decals made? most have a machine called an edge that uses thermal ink transfer to achieve fades and gradients. or they can use their CUTTER to cut out vinyl in solid colors. i must be missing something because you seem to be going to a lot of effort to do a simple task. am i crazy? or just ignorant of your practices. fyi there are two types of vinyl mainly used in sign shops. 3-mil which is a little thicker and more durable and 2-mil which is thinner but has longer life and is glossier. 3-mil has 5 year warranty 2-mil has8 year warranty against peeling or any fading. don't go into a local shop and say you know this but the material is dirt cheap. 3-mil colors 15" tall by 50 yard long is only45.00/roll. .30cents per running foot at 15" tall. usually there is a max cutting height of 13" on a 15" tall roll.
24" tall roll with cutting height of 22.5" costs about .425 cents per running foot. some 2-mil colors and specialty vinyls are a little more. for example a set of plane #'s and some stripes in say blue should cost no more than 10$ retail. the mark-up is fantastic but that is the business. that's why i own my own shop now! some shops may have a 20$ minimum order but you can get a lot of vinyl for that much money. don't be had by a shop owner out to make a buck on someone who doesn't know any better. i operate in lancaster pa and there are about 25 sign shops within 30 miles ranging from small to huge. a customer recently had his van lettered by me and it cost him320$. he said the last time he had on done it was at a franchise and they charged him over 500 for the same thing. shop around. you'll always be able to find someone either cheaper or more customer friendly. if you have any questions or need any advice on how to buy or what to ask for pm me or e-mail direct at [email protected]
mike

I did not know that the sign shops could do gradients. I thought they must cut each color separately out of solid color vinyl. However I'm still interested in plotting (printing) on monokote for 2 reasons.

1. I own a plotter and can experiment on my own (cheaper too)

2. If I print on white monokote, when I put it on the aircraft covered with monokote, the color matches exactly.

I still plan on getting some of the graphics, such as lettering done on vinyl (perhaps by you allisonmo - I never did receive your email)

Okay,

From reading these posts, you can print on Monokote using a Inkjet style plotter say a HP650c and it does not affect the plotter or damage it. The Monokote is not affected by heat and the graphics or lettering remains when applied with iron? Can anyone supply photos of the results. I have a HP650c plotter and Autocad, Corel, Photoshop etc.... and this might be just what I'm looking for.

Pictures please!

Thanks,

Shawnusa

You read R.C.M.?

It is now exactly spelled out, but same methods were used in printing on wings for Gollywock in December 2001 issue.

Used to have a picture of a Super Sinbad with computer plotted LiteSpan (more difficult, and non-erasble) at the site for Bob Holman plans. Ask him for picture if it cannot be pulled up anymore. His site has dead spots in it on occasion to certain viewers, and his nephew is in hospital, so may be a while before it gets fixed.

Wm.

Any suggestions? I just tried some glossy Monokote in both my HP870 and Epson 1280 inkjet printers. The ink just beads up on the surface and looks real bad.

Did you use the genuine H-P ink or some substitute or reload?

In the plotters, they have an ink which is used to going down onto mylar. The cartridges are rather pricey at about $38 each locally. We had several of then sent out for $5 reloading years ago to save a buck or so. They work OK on paper, but gave same results as mentioned when used on mylar. If you can get them to dry, the ink will smudge also.

As to small inkjet printers, you need to consult H-P expert as to proper ink cartridge for plastics. I used a Techjet a few years ago, and they had a different cartridge between paper and myler. Each gave a different appearance when used.

I have only had good luck with a new cartridge in our 650c and 750c plotters.

I just know you have cleaned the Monocoat well before trying, right? If you are trying it on silkspan, you have to iron it before using.



Wm.