Vwings

Would like to see pictures of your Golden Age Air Racers. A bit of info with the pictures would be great.

Thanks all.

Ed

You're a man after me old irish heart

Miss Los Angeles was built from Walt Moucha plans, is 30% scale, spans 73", weighs 15 lbs, and is powered with a TT 120.

The Gee Bee model Z, http://www.jackdevinemodels.com/geebee_z.htm , is also 30% scale, spans 85", weighs 24 lbs, and in powered by a Brison 3.2 gasser.

tom czenthe

Heath Baby Bullet 1/4 scale and 40% scale

Homepylon

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1/4 scale Wedell-Williams from Hostetler plans. 23 lbs and powered by an OS FT-300

TLH101

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Here are some of the Gee Bees ihave had in the past. First is a NWHT(Jack Devine now) R-2 with a Brison 3.2. Second is a little foam electric R-1, and third is a Coverite Model D with a OS.46. Last is an Adrian Page R-2, 1/5 scale, that I am working on now.
I also have a Haffke 1/4 scale R-1, and 1/4 scale Model D that are both unfinished.

Vwings

Some great aircraft. Does anyone have one of the Mystery Ship? Is there a kit/plans for it?

allanflowers

This is my take on the ultimate Golden Age airplane design. 65"ws, Saito 120 in the red one, Saito 91 in the silver, Magnum 30 in the 44"ws yellow version.
Not a real historical design but they honor the genre.

Gremlin Castle

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Byron Wedell-Williams same size as the Hostetler but with fiberglass fuselage. Weighs in at 25# and powered by a G-62. Not exactly a sport plane but much easier to take off and land than your average warbird.
Just flew it at the Austin Tx Bigbird fly in this weekend the last two photos are from this event.

Gremlin Castle

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Another photo showing it beside my Ikon Nwest 96" Monocoupe for those that need a relative scale of the size.

Gremlin Castle

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The Golden Age racing aircraft are not as popular as they should be partly because many of them were first modeled as .40/.60 size planes.

Many of these designs are difficult to fly until they get up into bigger wing spans.

About three years back there was a 50% scale Gee Bee that showed up at Bomber Field. It was a waivered airplane and did not get to fly at the meet because of incomplete documentation but it did fly and fly very well at another field close by.

YAT-28E

Has anyone ever built the P-51 Beguine from the 49' races?

I want to know if those tip radiators would create more of a tip stall problem.

This is a project for next year......

TLH101

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I had a "Beguine" conversion of the Platt 1/5 scale Mustang several years ago. I bought it already built, & never flew it, but was told that all the repaired damage on the model was from trip stalls on landing. I was told that as soon as it started slowing down, it would flip on its back. The radiators were hollow, with no air restriction in them. Don't know if they caused the problem or not.

Gremlin Castle

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The stalling could have been from many factors including high wing loading, a warp, slightly drooped ailerons, etc. Usually tip enhancements improve the slow speed wing tip performance but at the cost of increased drag.

I have thought about a Ziroli size 51 modified into the Beguine. It certainly would be a standout at fly ins.

YAT-28E

.........INTERESTING.............

Thanks for the reply.

Anybody else with info is helpful!!

Gremlin, yes it would be one that people would go " ooooohhhhh....nice!

thats kinda what I go for in a model. Worst part is that getting documentation on that kind of craft is difficult to say the least!!

Gremlin Castle

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The P-40 Q has the same documentation problem. It is also a seldom seen bird that raced after WWII.

The Beguine and other hot rodded airframes were mostly just built and flown. Documentation other than a few photographs is very sparse to say the least.
In their defense these people were interested in racing, not creating historical documentation.

TLH101

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There is a lot of air racing info here:
http://members.chello.se/ipmsairrace/bt.htm
I am working a P-39 "Cobra II" racer from 1946, and found some great info in their back isssues.
Also check the "photo galleries" here:
http://www.warbirdaeropress.com/
There is gallery for the 1949 Cleaveland race.

Cuttysark

I'm sure this subject has been discussed ad nauseum by you old timer's (time in hobby, not age) but I'm relatively new to the hobby so here goes: How important are the wing support wires to scale GeeBee Racers in relation to their original purpose in historic GeeBee Racers? Issues such as the historic designer's original intent: their dynamic function vs. their function in scale beyond historic accuracy, that is aerodynamics, structural support in flight, etc. Is their anyone with strong feelings about this or experience in building scale with and without them? Thanks.

Gremlin Castle

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In model size Gee Bees the flying wires are for appearance only. The Byron/IronBay models use a silver elastic cord that is used for gift wrapping to simulate the flying wires.

As always the further you get into it the more inclined you will become to use flying wires but it is usually for the added appeal not for structural needs.

Also the larger Gee Bees fly and land much better than the smaller sizes.

Ed

" Beauty is in the eye of the beholder " Yes, we do have some very serious scale people that will cover a model with 50,000 riverts. But then again, we have many Sporty Scale, Fun Scale, and Stand-Off Scale people. Each sets his own personal criteria, and there is nothing wrong with that. Many put the priority on Flight Performance first, and scale appearance second. And some even allow their models to be covered with plastic.

Most modelers draw a line somewhere and stop, before having a full set of working flight instruments in the cockpit, along with a dummy pilot doing the steering. That's a little bit too much to expect.

In the case of the Gee Bee wing support wires that you mention, moden construction techniques in modeling make them unnecessary, but you wouldn't go to a Scale Masters event without them. Yes they look great, and were certainly needed on the full scale aircraft, but are only put on a model if the owner desires them. You make the call !

> Jim

wingbeat

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Reviving this thread with an inquiry:

I'm looking for a Golden Age Racer to build to be powered by a 120 4 stroke.
Kit, plans- no arfs. I prefer scale, otherwise I'd build the model featured in the latest MA.

Any recommendations? Cleveland has a bunch of plans, but I'm not knowledegeable on how Cleveland's planes fly.

thanks for your help.

Baldeagle

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LiL Butch <Bottom pic> Monocoupe was an early racer. I built it several years ago from Jim Dipinio plans. Arround 72 in ws it is a clipped wing Monocoupe. Good flying bird.

Avaiojet

You're not going to believe this, but it's true.

I have one of the late, Don Neill's, 1/3 scale Gee Bee Z framed. This one is perfect!

I have another 1/3, Don Neill, Gee Bee Z that a modeler built and did a cart wheel with. Ok, maybe two. I'm repairing this one. Traded two pattern engines for it.

Two 1/4 scale Gee Bee Z's, partically framed fuselages. Wing parts are cut but not assembled yet.

One 60 size Gee Bee Y that needs a redo. It's old like me!

One 1/4 Wedell Williams, racer, framed.

One 1/4 scale Fred Reese Mystery Ship. Glass fuse and most of the wood is framed.

One bashed kit of Adrian Page's Gee Bee Z. Lots of changes and probably 95% scale outline. Framed.

I bounce around from model to model and never seem to get anything done!

Charles

www.cfcgraphics.com

Avaiojet

<<How important are the wing support wires to scale GeeBee Racers in relation to their original purpose in historic GeeBee Racers? Issues such as the historic designer's original intent: their dynamic function vs. their function in scale beyond historic accuracy, that is aerodynamics, structural support in flight, etc. Is their anyone with strong feelings about this or experience in building scale with and without them? Thanks.>>

Cutty,

The 33% Gee Bee Z's that Don Neill designed used working flying wires. FYI. Don designed and built some of the models used in the movie The Rocketeer. (sp?)

The wires used were the electricians metal "snake" wire. About three sixteenths by a sixteenth. Gotta remember, this was the really late 80s and really early 90s. I have a bunch of it for the 33% Gee Bee Z that I have. Which I hope one day to finish. []

Don's model certainly would have difficulty without them. A few guys still make scale flying wires that are functional. Guys probably offer stainless today?

Don was a great modeler, even the gear he designed for the Gee Bee Z, opperated like the real airplanes'.

Charles

stuntflyr

http://www.ipmsairrace.org/ Try this for the IPMS guys. There was an address change.

Check the site for the Yahoo group address that has a forum.

Warbird Aero Press has had some failures with their photo host, it isn't up and hasn't been for a while.

Chris...