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CD Scaledesigns Pup build

Old 11-15-2007, 02:41 PM
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allanflowers
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Default CD Scaledesigns Pup build

After lurking around for months watching related threads, I finally ordered a Pup kit from CD Scaledesigns. It will take a while for the kit to arrive but I have been collecting data for several years on this plane. I have the Windsock Datafile already and lots and lots of internet pix. I will probably build the RAAF replica version because I love the look of it. On the other hand, I have had some radio issues with my metal clad VK Camel and, until I sort those out, will also consider other schemes (some of which might also have the metal issues).
I am very interested in Pup B202 of which I have some pix of a scale model, but nothing on the real plane. Anybody know anything about this plane, particularly about documentation?
Other possibilities are N5192 and N6452 which I love but am worried about doing that engine turning properly.
My goal is to do a relatively fast build, not getting into total detail like I did on the Camel, or like Abu's incredible Snipe. I would hope to complete the build by May or June, using a Saito 65 or 72 with Spektrum radio. This is one reason the RAAF plane is appealing, it has a simpler covering without all the stitching, etc. (could even be done in iron-on film but I probably wouldn't).
Comments, info and advice are welcome, please.
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Old 11-15-2007, 09:35 PM
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Default RE: CD Scaledesigns Pup build

[/quote][sm=thumbs_up.gif] I think you'll love it!

...but am worried about doing that engine turning properly.
This is really simple enough with a circle of scouring pad CA'ed to a dremel filing tool. Use a pencil to lay out some guide lines and off you go.

My goal is to do a relatively fast build, not getting into total detail like I did on the Camel, or like Abu's incredible Snipe.
The great thing about Chris' kit is that even if you do a basic build you still get totally scale outlines.

using a Saito 65 or 72 with Spektrum radio.
I have a feeling that the 72 would be "too much engine" for such a light model as the Pup. I felt it was right for the heavier (and larger) Snipe (plus I can use the weight up front) but I'd go with either the Saito 65 or even just 58 on the Pup. Or are you doing the 1/5 scale version? Sure wish I could use a Spektrum radio here in Japan. []
Old 11-15-2007, 11:00 PM
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Default RE: CD Scaledesigns Pup build

Hi Allan,

Don't they have a Pup in the San Diego air and Space Museum?? Talk about having all the docs you need in your own back yard......But then there is a DR-1 reproduction here....painted blue....not a pretty airplane!!

Randy
Old 11-16-2007, 02:25 AM
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Default RE: CD Scaledesigns Pup build

If the weather is good coming Sunday (temp 41 deg.F [:'(] we're only looking at the wind here....)
we can tell you how the protoype will fly with a Magnum FS 52 FSR.
Balanced and ready for flight she weighs in at 6.8 Lbs

Here she is tied down at a Fly inn 'cause there was a 27 knots of wind blowing.;



Wish us luck,

Frank (and Chris!)
Old 11-16-2007, 12:33 PM
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Default RE: CD Scaledesigns Pup build

Hey Frank, best of luck with the maiden flights. I have been watching the other thread and will continue to do so. I am particularly interested in any mods you might suggest, based on your flights (things like adding down or right thrust, exact CG location, etc.).
Abu, my engine choice will be influenced by Frank's flights with that 52, although I like to stay with Saito. The .72 is actually smaller than the 65 in several important dimensions although the CD Scaledesigns layout may negate the advantages of that. On the VK Camel, I had to recess the firewall for the four stoke engine and the 72 worked out better than the longer 65. Still...
Randy, I am a member of the San Diego museum for just that reason and spend lots of time there, particularly hanging around that Pup. I also refer to the Shuttlesworth site, Don Coe's Pup build thread on RCSCALEBUILDER and Don's Snipe build for Sopwith detail discussions and ideas (also your great Hanriot thread).
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Old 11-16-2007, 12:54 PM
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Default RE: CD Scaledesigns Pup build

Allan,

I went there many years ago, they had a Convair Sea Dart displayed out front.....I remember the great WWI exhibits and the dioramas. Thought they had a Pup....beautiful display, not one you'd want to copy as a flying model though...

Randy
Old 11-16-2007, 05:48 PM
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Default RE: CD Scaledesigns Pup build

I'm a Pup lover too!
Old 11-16-2007, 08:41 PM
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Default RE: CD Scaledesigns Pup build

I've taken about a thousand photos of that bare-bones Pup replica at the San Diego Aerospace Museum and have used them throughout my Snipe build to guide my thinking about Sopwith manufacturing techniques. I usualy get down (from Orange) for a visit each time I'm in the US. Hey, maybe we can even meet up there during my trip at Xmas time!
Old 11-16-2007, 09:52 PM
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Default RE: CD Scaledesigns Pup build

I've got guest passes. Let me know when. I live about twenty minutes away from the museum.
Old 11-17-2007, 06:20 AM
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Default RE: CD Scaledesigns Pup build

Hi Allen,
welcome to the wonderful world of [link=http://www.cdscaledesigns.com]CD-Scaledesigns[/link]! I was really chuffed when your order came in as I have been a great admirer of your VK Camel in US Navy markings. Back in the early 90ies I saw a Camel in the Pensacola Museum with similar (or the same?) markings and I was really impressed. That is a cool looking camel!
You will be interested to know that our Pup kit now includes lots of hard to make hardwood items and sticks as lots of people have been asking for them. I have uploaded the new manual to my website, but you can also see it here
[link=http://www.cdscaledesigns.com/Downloads/Parts%20List%20Sopwith%20Pup.pdf]CD-Scaledesigns Pup Parts Manual[/link]
I'll get your order out as soon as possible.
CT
Old 11-17-2007, 12:02 PM
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Default RE: CD Scaledesigns Pup build

Here are some original Pup pics from 1917 that I got for my documentation for the 1985 Nats and the 1986 Masters. I sent to the Imperial War Museum in England for them. Black and white for sure, so color selection is the same guess for everyone . And these pics are clearer than they appear on line. This planes' combat days were over when pics were taken, but she survived for training purposes. The machine gun is gone but the lines and chutes are still there and a curved windscreen has been added. There is no center section cut-out and the cowl has a very interesting front. I can't tell you how many Pups I've built with this scheme and number but I always liked the "kinda used look". This looks like a fantastic kit you are attempting.Wish I had one in 1985, I had to draw my own plans and build from scratch. Was it worth it??.................Regards Jack
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Old 11-17-2007, 01:18 PM
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Default RE: CD Scaledesigns Pup build

Those are great old photos of that Pup and, yes, scratch building is worth it.
CT, I have some pix of a VK Camel that I think you built (below), which became part of my resource file on my Camel build. The Pensacola Pup was the subject I finally settled on for that project.
I liked the VK kit but this Pup kit looks like it will be even better.
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Old 11-18-2007, 07:14 AM
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Default RE: CD Scaledesigns Pup build

Allan,
see the post of Chris on the other thread of the succesfull first flight of the Pup!
For you I got some (first hand) data:

After take off only a bit off down trim was needed which means the CoG is on 95 to 100 mm from the top wing LE
Aileron throw is 1/2" up, definetely use Aileron differential (50%!!!)
Could mix rudder with aileron with a switch, tried both and as expected the turn is smoother with rudder mixed to it.
Throw of the Rudder just max what you can get, tried some stall turns: perfect!
Elevator throw 1/2" up an down is more then enough.
And then the engine power, we definitely had more then enough power with the 52 Magnum fourstroke, take off at 1/2 throttle (from grass!!!)
Flying around all the time (23 minutes in the freezing cold, we must be mad ) with little above idle, used (short) full throttle to perform a nice loop
so I hope you can use these experiences to make your choice....

In general she's an intermediate flyer level plane, stable and no surprises!
Good luck with building this beauty, and if you have any other questions: just ask!

Frank
Old 11-18-2007, 06:15 PM
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Default RE: CD Scaledesigns Pup build

Congratulations and thanks for the information. I will definitely drop the idea of a Saito 72 as just being too much engine. Seems I remember reading an account by Chris about his old VK Camel as having too much engine and hard to get to land also.
I read on the other thread about your aileron setup and plan to try it that way too.
How much lead ballast did you end up with to balance the thing out? Also, how big a fuel tank does it have? Did it show any signs of getting tail heavy as the fuel was finally used up?
Again, a great day for you, Chris and the company. Hope there are tons of orders for this cool model (just tell Chris to get my shipped out first though...).
Old 11-20-2007, 04:57 PM
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Default RE: CD Scaledesigns Pup build

My order went in today for a Saito 62a (same block as the 50) and the flexible pipe muffler/90degree adaptor. I see where Paypal cleared my payment to Chris so hopefully I will have something to do, and report on soon.
Old 11-20-2007, 08:53 PM
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Default RE: CD Scaledesigns Pup build

My eyes bugged out when I first saw the announcement for the Saito 62 -- long after I had bought the 72 of course. I'm sure it'll be great in your Pup. It might be enough for the Snipe as well.

Hope you get your kit soon. I can't believe a year (and a bit more) has passed since I first got my "big box" from Chris in the mail!
Old 11-21-2007, 10:33 PM
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Default RE: CD Scaledesigns Pup build

My engine came today. Fast shipping! This tends to whet the appetite for building but the kit won't be here for a while yet.
Since I have nothing to do I decided to try playing with the instrument panel which I will "fake" at this time with a printed graphic rather than an actual 3D effort.
I scanned the IP layout from the Windsock Data file, found some wood grain with Google and started a Photoshop try. Here it is so far after about an hour or so. It is scaled to 1/4 size but can easily be reduced to 1/6th for printing if it comes out okay.
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Old 11-21-2007, 11:29 PM
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Default RE: CD Scaledesigns Pup build

Looks VERY good! I might recommend though finding an image of actual stained wood to use as a background. Something dark and rich.

What I find myself interested in is the idea of simulating a 3-D effect with printed graphics. So for example you could print out an extra copy then cut up the parts and mount on balsa supports to give it more depth. I'm thinking of doing this with the engine on my Snipe. It's a technique artists refer to as a "tole."***

(***Thanks to Allen for the correction on this word. I believe he may have been the person who originally mentioned the idea to me)
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Old 11-22-2007, 05:32 PM
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Default RE: CD Scaledesigns Pup build

I've seen some paper tole that could easily pass for real 3D objects and an instrument panel would be a good application.
I did some more on my Photoshop file. I will continue to play with the various layers and elements but, until it is placed inside a fuselage, it will be hard to tell what to do to it next.
I got an e-mail back from the RAAF museum in Australia and it looks like they will be sending me more info/pictures on their Pup replica. It would be great to get some historic info on the original plane from WW-I.
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Old 11-22-2007, 11:33 PM
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Default RE: CD Scaledesigns Pup build

Added some shadows on the compass and got a better, more accurate, wood grain...
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Old 11-23-2007, 07:06 PM
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Default RE: CD Scaledesigns Pup build

While I wait for the kit to arrive, I am continuing on graphics. Assuming I do the RAAF Pup scheme, I have started an attempt to capture the Aussie markings for the fuselage. It is hard because even good photos don't enlarge accurately to that extent. The second pix is my first Adobe Illustrator file for this.
I am open to comments and, if anybody has good artwork on this, please post here or send to me.
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Old 11-26-2007, 09:59 PM
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Default RE: CD Scaledesigns Pup build

I think the neck was too thick so I thinned it. Should be better.
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Old 11-26-2007, 10:11 PM
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Default RE: CD Scaledesigns Pup build

Looks good Allan, you are going to have all the hard stuff done before the kit arrives! I like that color scheme...I have five WWI biplanes four of which are PC-10 or olive drab....."drab" is a good description!! Stick with the bright colors...

Randy
Old 11-27-2007, 08:55 AM
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Default RE: CD Scaledesigns Pup build


ORIGINAL: V2PLUS10
I have five WWI biplanes four of which are PC-10 or olive drab....."drab" is a good description!! Stick with the bright colors...
I know that you mean! It's sad when you have to start thinking about "grey" as an embellishment.
Old 11-27-2007, 04:55 PM
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Default RE: CD Scaledesigns Pup build

I love Sopwiths but the colors are rather uninteresting, other than for some strange training Pups which are a bit garish. As a result, my next scale project will probably be German. There is a great Albatros at the San Diego Museum I could do, or a Siemans Schuckert D.III, of which there are some great color schemes.
Strange that the supposedly uptight Germans had such fanciful and creative looking airplanes.
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