Im looking into a Lockheed Sirius and plan on scratch building it from Hostetler plans. My problem is the only scale doc. i can find is the one that sits in the smithsonian and was Lindbergh's. I dont like the paint job and it also has floats. Bad combo if I wanted to fly that in compitition.

So i guess im asking for help finding another Sirius to model that isnt black and orange.

thnks

Thats the only Sirius I have ever heard of. I might be wrong though. I do believe a portion of the trip that Lindbergh and his wife took might have required the floats be removed and conventional gear installed. But I have the feeling that I'm thinking of someone else. And, anyway, I like that paint scheme.

Do a search on google on "lockheed sirius" and you'll end up with 300+ hits. One of which is

http://www.lindberghfoundation.org/history/photo8.html

at the Lindbergh Foundation.

Of course, if you're doing documented scale, there may be no other color choice besides black and orange...
except this Cuban page I just found: http://www.urrib2000.narod.ru/ArticMenendez.html

There is a bunch of colors for this plane. I have the Bridi kit 65 inch and it came with about 12 colors. The pictures are in black and white but tell what each color is, also some planes were used by companies like Texco, let me know if you need some info

I am out of town right now and away from my files but I will see what I can find over the weekend.

Are you looking for just colour schemes or do you need 3-views as well?

I checked w/ scale model research and Bob only has the pics of the Lindbergh plane. DOnt get me wrong its a great looking plane but i was looking for something flashier for scale compitition. If im forced to use that plane and color scheme what do the rules for Masters or any scale compitition say about removing the floats and putting on a landing gear?

ScaleRules...Right now im looking for both Bob does have three views i believe for both the 2 place open and closed cockpits. What i really need is color schemes. Be great if u could find something...sofar i havent found much

Bit of advice... you seem to be fairly new at scale airplanes. I'd build the plane and not sweat the details of scale documentation for competition. Look on the 'Net, find a color scheme that appeals to you and go for it. If you decide to compete later on, the plane can be re-done.

Actually bill...i just finished a ziroli p-47 semi-scale and thats why im moving on to building this project. I have been competeing w/ that plane but im getting held back in my static scores. and I cant make that up to much in flying. So im moving on to this project so that i can really start getting into competition.

Thnks for the advice though...BTW interesting link to that cuban site.

I apologize, I did not mean to sound as though I was "talking down to you". I've been practicing being a curmudgeon and sometimes it bleeds over...

For documentation, your best bet may be the Cuban Aviation site: the red, white and blue Sirius of Menéndez Peláez is a striking plane. That seems to be an interesting site: a Cuban site hosted by a Russian ISP.

Good luck!

--Bill

roger ,

I am a little confused! If you are into scale r/c a/c why the h@@l do you have a car as an avitar?

LMAO!!!! Thats just one of my current addictions. And besides I dont have any pics yet of the P-47 Have to get a new digital camera first.

heh scale i tried to visit your site and its not coming up. u might want to check on that.

Roger,
See if you can get a copy of "Revolution in the Sky". It's a wonderful book about the early single engine Lockheeds. The Air Express, Vega, Sirius, Altair, and Orion are all covered. There are lots of pictures and some color schemes given. I believe it's out of print, but copies keep showing up on ebay for very little money. Or you can do a search at www.abebooks.com for a used copy.

Also, get yourself a copy of the William Wylam scale drawings of the above mentioned aircraft series...they're something else. I think they are available from Model Airplane News. Incredible detail on the Sirius and the others.

I'm currently building a 123" 1/4 scale Lockheed Vega, from my own plans, which shares the same basic fuselage and wings with the Sirius, and the above mentioned book and drawings have been most useful.

The Lindberg Sirius is the only one left, so you aren't going to find a photo pack for any others I'm afraid.

If you want more info on the book, like the ISBN number, let me know and I'll look it up for you.

Good luck with the project! D

Cheers, Nigel

Roger,

Yes I know! I have not been with that host for over a year now and they finally took my site off their server. It was there upto about two weeks ago.

I am presently reworking my site and should have it back up and running soon. I forgot to take the link out from my signature. Thanks for reminding me.

By the way I have not had a chance to check my files yet. Got back into town late Friday and had chores to do around the house. Now I am off again. Will get back to you as soon as I can.

Seems to me that there was an issue of AIRPOWER or WINGS back in the 80' s that devoted a big section to the variants in one seat or two seat configuration. Had some color plates too. Talked of who flew them, and on what record breaking trip.

The new set of drawings noted above from Air Age Press have sideviews of the A/C but no wing views.

Wm.

Thnks all for the help...I guess im just gona build the Lindberg sirus seeing as its the only one im gona be able to get actual pics of in person. That and my wife just happens to have a confrence out there in a month...She was so excited that i was gona be coming w/ her. HAHA !!!! I guess she doesnt need to know now.

There was 14 Sirius's built with wooden fuselages, 4 converted to Altairs, 1 Sirius DL (metal fuselage) was built and later also converted to an Altair.IMHO I think the Sirius that General Fierro of Mexico was the sharpest. It wasen't insulted by the closed cockpit...which was Anne Lindbergh's idea.

As Monocoupe pointed out you need to find a copy of Revolution In The Sky, it will help a great deal. The Wylam drawings while very nice are for someone that dosen't know better. I'm not criticizing anyone for following them, they are the closest thing most of us have to ANY information about these wonderful machines. For the most part they are pretty accurate.

Some incite into my wooden Lockheed background, I've researched these machines for about 13 years now and am in a partnership with a gentleman that has been researching them since 1972. We traveled to Switzerland last year to study the sole remaining Lockheed Orion, it was the Shell Lightning that Jimmy Doolittle flew, incidentally it was a converted Altair.

Between the two of us we possess the most complete original factory drawing set that is known on the wooden machines. Were
also building a 1:1 Lockheed Altair, of which I have the wood for the wing spars in the shop now and should start building within the month. I am also looking into doing plans in 1/4 and 1/3 scale
for at least the Air Express, Sirius, Altair, and Orion. I've never been a huge fan of the Vega.

If I can be of any help to you on this project all you need to do is ask. I may even have an extra copy of Relolution In The Sky, I found 9 copies in a book store marked way down and bought them all. I've given several away and not sure how many I have left.

Al

Al,
Wouldn't you know it, that our paths would cross after I've got my Vega almost completely built! I don't think I want more accurate information at this point...it might be too disapointing!
I did use the Wylam drawings because they were all I could find. I had discovered while drawing the plans, that there were some problems with them, and made some corrections. So I would have to agree with you that they are for those of us who don't know any better. Thankfully, there are lots of pictures in "Revolution" that helped in sorting out the areas that didn't make sense!
I'm using the "Walt Jeffries" drawings for the Jimmie Mattern color scheme.
It may not be perfect, but I'll bet only a really small percentage of people (yourself included) will be able to spot any inaccuracies.

If you should decide to do plans for any of the others, I'd be interested.....particularly the Orion.

I'm looking forward to seeing your 1:1 Altair one day, as I'm a big fan of "Golden Age" aircraft... at any scale!

I'm an Aircraft Maintenance Engineer by trade, and would like to build a replica, or undertake a restoration of a golden age aircraft one day, but until then I'm sure having fun building models of them!

Cheers, Nigel

I happened to do a search on the Altair after Gee Bee Mentioned that some were converted. I happened onto a site http://www.adastron.com/lockheed/altair/altair.htm
This guy has a heck of a pic collection as well as 3 view color scheme, swatches for the Lady Southern Cross.

Gee Bee I cant thnak you enough for even mentioning that the sirius was converted to the Altair!!!!!

Anyone know of someone that does plans for a Altair or what kind of conversions im gona need to preform on a Sirius plans set (other than the retracts)

Again cant say thnks enough!!!
Matt

Hi Matt,

Glad that I've helped in some small way. As for the Sirius to Altair conversion...make sure you use the BIG Orion fin and rudder and the gear, that is about it. I'll look at the horz. and elevator drawings to see which they used. There was several tail section changes, both in vertical and horizontal's and it's hard to keep up with them all. I've found that they were building all of the machines, as in model types, at the same time and as they would improve on a part for the later models they would incorporate these new parts into the other "earlier" models, (hope this makes sense) an example was the LATE model big fin and rudder on the Air Express which was designed with the short fin and rudder. The Altair had a 2 degree wing, there was 2 and 3 degree wings but it appears that only the late model Orion's had the 3 degree wing.

Well it's off to the flying field... Again I'm glad to help in any way that I can.

Al

Al,

I'd be real interested in those 1/4 or 1/3 scale plans you talked about possibly doing for the Altair. Let me know if you do happen to do them.

Matt

Monocoupe,

Your the one that mentioned the Orion, I've been talking with Rogers 259 about an Altair and remembered someone asking about the Orion... Hows about one in 1/4 scale, 127" span give
or take a 1/16". I've started working on the Altair now and the Orion isn't much different when you get down to it. A cockpit here a cockpit there, windows, tail outline. Basic fuselage and wing planform were the same for all wooden Lockheed's with the exception of the ill fated Explorer, three up...three down.

I've decided that the only way to do the retractable gear birds is to make a suitable scale gear otherwise all is lost. Spent 3 hours talking with my machinest about ways to build said gear. I'm starting to think that the gear is going to weigh something like 5 pounds in a ready to function set-up...this is only a guess at this stage.

Trying to figure out the approximate weight of the beast now so Roger and I can come up with a suitable engine.

Let me know how serious you are and I'll keep you posted.

BTW I am a retired USAF F-4 and F-16 Crew Chief, A&P...soon to be IA. My wife and I own a small restoration shop that will make me a living some day??? She has her first love airplane in the shop, a Monocoupe 90A. I'm going to build up a Clipwing 90A beside it when we finally get going on them.

Later,
Al

Al,

Yes, I would like to keep abreast of your Altair/Orion pursuits. The landing gear is something that I have pondered more than once, and I'd be quite interested to see what you come up with.
One of Varney's Orions, or perhaps Bernarr McFadden's black & gold leaf Altair would make an impressive model!

Target weight for my 123", 1/4 Vega is 35-37 lbs, which yields an approximate wing loading of 36 ozs...I'd be happy with that.
Power is a 70cc Minarelli twin.

Gotta love those Monocoupes....a 1/3 Clipwing is near the top of my project list. A friend owned a 110 for many years, that he restored.

You can see my 1/4 Monosport in my gallery.

So many airplanes...so little time!

Cheers, Nigel

Nigel & Al,

Well i've been doing a little research and I might have come up w/ an answer. Saito's FA-450R3D puts out 7 HP and is a 75 CC engine I wasnt able to find specs for the Minarelli Twin Do you have those available Nigel??

I dont know bout this what do you guys think?

Matt,

The Minarelli is no longer available in the U.S. as far as I'm aware.
If you're considering it for the Hostetler Sirius, I doubt it would fit in the cowl anyway, as it's around 10 1/2" across or so from plug to plug.
The Saito sounds nice!

Nigel