Shrky

Twisted,

I haven't worked on the Bebe in quite awhile. I recently got back into R/C after a several year hiatus. Previously my modeling was in the .40 to .60 glow engine sport models and as I was getting into larger scale gas models I decided I needed a good trainer. After a long search I was able to get my hands on a Dynaflite PT-19 which I've spent the last few months building. The PT-19 is in it's last stages and when it's done I hope to get back to the Bebe. Additionally as I look back on the N.11 there are several things I don't like how they came out so I plan to go back and rework several things. Hopefully this fall will see the Bebe back on the bench.

Tom,

Any chance you could go into more detail on how you stained the Koverall? Did you brew the coffee then use it to stain the Koverall and did you stain the Koverall then apply it or did you stain it after you covered the airframe?

Scott

tom czenthe

Scott

The Koverall is applyed first.........mix the instant coffee to a thick paste like consistency and dip a rag into the paste and rub on to the Koverall in a steaking fashion to achieve that old linen look and finish with a clearcote of your choice....I use and automotive type with dulling agent in it

N11

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Hi Scott just checking in to see if you have finished up the PT-19 and will be getting back into the Nieuport again? I had enjoyed the progress thru the prior times so far. Also not to be a thread jumper/stealer I wonder hows Art`s 1/3 N11 is coming along. Art? Thanks Guys Excellent coverage[sm=thumbup.gif]

Jim

R/C Art

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Hey Jim, Scott, et al

I am working on the N11 again. I read thru the thread again and after viewing all the pictures of your construction, Scott, I kind of feel like a hack.......my work is strictly model type construction - nothing scale going on inside my plane......my goal is a scale outline with scale details (on the outside) and proto-typical flight.

I have rough framed most of the plane (less about half of the upper left wing panel). The ailerons are torque rod actuated (wooden dowel rod) and all the tail surfaces are laminated 1/32" ply and 1/16" balsa. Today I think I finalized the design of the hardware/attach points for the struts and flying/landing wires. I am trying to keep the design simple, using commonly found hobby shop items.

As I get more into the flow of the project again, I will try to get my wife to get some pictures of the progress. Here is an interesting side bar........I talked my wife, Rhonda, into trying her hand at building. She is in the process of building her own Nieuport 11. She never did like flying - after one time on the radio, she handed it back to me, saying "NEVER AGAIN!"
As I cut parts for my friends plane, I cut the same parts for her and then she does the gluing! If she is successful with her build, I am going to fly it in team scale. If things go as planned, we will end up with 3 planes - hers, mine and Dale's !

And if it doesn't turn out so well in the shop, then we can kiss almost forty years of marriage good bye! Nah, it won't be that bad......it has been fun. She has both fuselage sides done, hasn't glued herslf to the wood and we are still talking (so far).

Cheers,
Art

N11

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Thanks Art! Great to hear on your progress and I understand your building techniques as I am building a BUSA N11 the same similar way concentrating on a more exact scale outline which will be flown at Scalemaster events(qualifiers). Fantastic to hear your wife`s involvement in her own nieuport I know both of you will have Excellent lookers and flyers! Keep us posted on your progress.

Jim

R/C Art

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I have gathered up all the bits and pieces of our N-11 project and will try to post a few pictures.
These are pictures of the proto-type.......I suppose you could say I am pproving the plans by building 2 other planes.
The first set of fuse sides is Rhonda's and the second set is mine.

R/C Art

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A few more pics....the tail laminations and the forms I used to shape and glue them.
Also the cowls that I am going to use......they are all BUSA pup cowls ......one very old and one of a kind .......one used before their big Steerman was developed.......and a current one.
There are bits and pieces all over the shop.......I am cutting parts for 6 planes.
Before anyone asks - they are all spoken for........
I am drawing plans as I go and hopefully at the end of this project will be available.......they won't be anything fancy, but........maybe they can be used........?!?!?

R/C Art

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I plan to build/finish the proto-type and as I do....update the plans and then cut the new parts for all the kits. While this is going on, I will assist Rhonda by cutting a precision kit and helping with building instructions..........I will build a section on my second plane so she can see what is expected and then she will build the same section on her plane. It worked for the fuse sides......I hope it will work for the rest of the project.
Time will tell.

N11

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[sm=thumbup.gif]WOW Thanks![sm=thumbup.gif]

Jim

Shrky

Jim,

The PT-19 is almost done. The fuse is covered and painted, I used Sig Coverall and dope then primed and sprayed. I did this on a model a long time ago and was very happy with the results as I am on the PT-19, however I don't think I'll do it again. With the coverings available today it's just not worth the time and effort. The wing is in the prime and sand stage. Some additional odds and ends and it should be done. I'm sorry I've been away from the Bebe so long but this last year has been a real trial with the economy the way it's been. I was about five people from being cut off at the railroad there for awhile. I'm back working as an engineer and things are looking up. As if I didn't have enough on my plate I've started going back to school. The new post 9/11 GI bill made it to good a deal to pass up. I have no idea what I'm going to do with a degree in business administration as a railroad engineer but at least I'll be able to say "Yeah I've got a degree" As the weather here has turned to our normal Pacific Northwest rain fest, I'm thinking about shelving the PT-19 and getting back to work on the Bebe just as soon as I get my workshop squared away again.

Art,
Thanks for the complements I'm sure your method will come out with as good or better model. I'm sure in the end most of what I've done will end up as "modeling for God." On thing I can't get past is finding something to make the cabanes and the landing gear out of. Of all the pictures I've looked at I'm convinced that the tubing used for these is a sharp edged ellipse in cross section something like this () but with sharp leading and trailing edges. I can't find anything in the right size an shape to use and think I'm going to have to use hardwood and shape it myself. That leaves how to make it look like it was aluminum. I was thinking either flitemetal or litoplate. Your Nieuport is looking good, are you going to make the kit available to the rest of us? I'm sure there are lots of people that would be interested.

Scott

N11

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Good to hear up on the PT-19 Scott I know when important issues in life step in the hobby has to take a back seat. I Hope all for the Best for you. Your work on the Nieuport so far looks Fantastic for scratch building so I know the final will be Awsome. Quick note on the struts I know Glenn Torrance offers strut materiel but the width might pose a outline problem on 1/3 scale I`ll be using the size he used on his Hanriot for my plane the size hits right on for 1/4. But it might be a consideration for yours? Thanks for the follow up Good Luck

Jim

R/C Art

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Scott

Here I am again. I have made a little progress......remember now, my last scale project took five years.....

I have taken an assembled fuse side and traced it onto my building table (with the pinning board removed). Where one would usually pin the pieces in place, I drilled holes and inserted short lengths of music wire.

The make shift clamps worked ok for the proto type, but in order to produce multiple fuselages and make it easier for Rhonda to join her fuse sides together, I will have to make some sort of angle braces to hold everything in place.......that is what is next.

By the way, I am using 1/8" x 3/4" aluminum stock from Ace Hardware for the cabanes and music wire for the landing gear........both will be faired with bass wood and sanded to shape. Once the wood is sealed and painted silver, it will be indiscernable from steel tubing.

As for the cross section of the cabanes and landing gear.......I think they are more of an oval shape. If you can find a nice round tube, then sqash it slightly, it would probably be just about right.
The V struts are more like the cross section that you descibed, with rather sharp leading and trailing edges. That is what I am seeing in my references.

Lucky Dog

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Art,
Great to see you really cranking on it. [sm=thumbs_up.gif] Would it be fair to say that the unfortunate demise of your 1/3 N17 had a sliver lining? Or was it just time?

Mike

R/C Art

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Mike, its never time to lose a third scale bird........and no that wasn't a silver lining, it was the silver covering all crinkled up and turned wrong side out!

Lucky Dog

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Time to get cranking on the Nieuport 11 is what I meant of course. Never a good time to loose any plane fer sure.

Eindecker_pilot

I like the all-thread clamps you're showing on the Nov.2 post. That's a good way to clamp large sections like that.

R/C Art

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Hey Greg.......yes the all thread works pretty well on straight sided fuselages. But since the N-11 fuse sides are narrower at the bottom and taper from the firewall all the way to the tailpost, this type of clamp is not secure enough......it slips when tightened down. So I devises some holding fixtures.

R/C Art

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For their actual use, I dy fitted the firewall, fuse sides and rear cockpit former and drew the tail together over a center line which I had drawn on the board.
Once I was satisfied that everything lined up, I loosened up the fixtures on one side only and removed the parts. I layed them out, mixed up some thirty minute epoxy and lathered up the parts.
Then I put everything back into the fixtures and secured the screws.......I checked several times that everything was still straight and positioned properly on the building board.
Now, I'm just waitng for the epoxy to cure.

Ring! Ring! dang phone! HELLO! I'm busy! Go flying? Sure, I'll be right there. Well gotta go, this weather probably won't last much longer.

Eindecker_pilot

Okay Art, so... while you were out flying the epoxy drilbbled down, cured, & effectively glued the airframe to the work table? Oh wait, that only happens to me..... got confused.

Greg

R/C Art

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Eindecker Pilot........I think we have all done that at one time or another.......but you shouldn't be telling stories on yourself. Your friends already do enough of that!

The next step is to join the tail together......find some balsa, cut a wedge that matches, lather it up with 6 minute epoxy, clamp it together and wait. It is still in the holding fixture and over the center line - make sure it stays that way.

Once that sets up, I added the the lite ply to the bottom of the rear fuse. I used thick CA for this procedure......it is quick and bonds well to basswood and lite ply. This piece holds the tail skid and also adds lots of stiffness to the rear fuselage.

Now I have another fuse, ready for the top and bottom cross pieces. Diagonals will be added - these will true up the fuse if needed and also add torsinal stiffness. Once I get that finished, it will be Rhonda's turn on her fuselage. Stay tuned.

R/C Art

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Remeber a while back when I said I was slow? Make that read S...L...O...W...!

Got a little bit more accomplished.

I positioned the fuse over the top fuse view, cut the top cross pieces, glued them in place.....then cut the bottom cross pieces and glued them in place.
Fitting the cross pieces is difficult to do. Remember, the fuse is wider at the top than at the bottom and it also tapers from the firewall all the way to the tail post.......
so a compound angle is required on each end of the fuse cross pieces. Its easy to get the double angle - but it is a bear to end up with the correct width!
Its a good thing that gussets are being added at each fuselage joint. The gussets are 1/8" lite ply and are made from scrap pieces (you do keep all the cuts outs and such, right?)
This is how I built my Fok EI and I flew it for 7 years without a glue joint failure......if it works, why change?

Here are a couple of pictures:

Lucky Dog

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Looking good Art!

(Hey, you need to flip your calendar to November.)

R/C Art

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The additonal set of cross pieces are for Rhonda's fuse. Remember, when I cut a piece for my plane, I also cut the same piece for hers.
Man, has it been tough to get her out into the shop, what with Thanskgiving coming up this week and visitors coming, too!

The next step is to cut and fit the diagonals. It looks like the fuse came out pretty straight, so I don't need them (the diagonals) to true it up.
But after they are added, the fuse becomes very strong torsionally.....it shouldn't twist in flight. Even with me at the sticks! I am thinking about
putting a G62 on the proto-type and then using the largest prop the engine will turn.

I used a 24x10 with this engine on my third scale Pup.
That combination will be too much speed for the N-11, so I will experiment with a 26x8. I know the engine will turn it without any problems because I
used it on the Pup - but this plane/engine/prop combo didn't work very at all. It flew it - but that's it......no speed ....no power.....kind of blah.
I am thinking a 28x6 on the N-11 might fall into this catagory, but I would like to fly it and try it.

Until next time....
Cheers,
Art

R/C Art

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Thanks Mike, I'm trying. At least that's what Rhonda says. Very trying!!

Why now, the month is almost over. I might as well go ahead and turn it to December.

R/C Art

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As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I am attempting to draw up plans for this project. I am making a plan sheet for all the shaped parts.....
I have most of the wood (balsa, lite ply & a/c ply) parts done. The pics are a little short on contrast, but here they are.....





Kind of a plan and pattern set - like Scratch a Plane did several years ago.