Hi, I am curious why more people don't compete at scale contest? I find it to be a lot of fun and I have met so many great people and it has made me a much better modeler and my flying improved dramatically. I have seen sooooo many beautiful madels and so few of them make it to a contest. Is it fear? The I am not good enough thing? Please comment on your thoughts! I went for years and tears thinking my planes aren't good enough and stopped growing as a modeler. I entered my first contest roughly 10 years ago at the "New England Scale Championships" and finished 9th in a field of 17. I received so much help (thanks Tom K!!! and Jack Buckley) that I was able to go back home and design and build a new plane (SSW DIII) which was capable of winning the next several years. Give it a try!!! You will learn so much and if you ask, everyone will help!! Just some questions and thoughts. Bob H, I really hope to see you at a contest soon. God save us if John ever gets around to finishing a model:-)


Dave

You came in 9th out of 17 at your first contest, but.... I wonder if the guy who came in 17th is still trying.

He still was as of 4 years ago. He enjoyed the social aspect of the events. Not everyone has a killer instinct:-)

Hi,

I will put my two cents worth in even though I have not yet been in competition. I have wanted to compete for a long time. The thought of just showing up at a contest by myself was a scary thing. Still is. I plan on competing a couple of times this summer with the Albatros DV I am building. Dave has been helping me out along the way. He is building one too and you all have probably seen our thread. The thing is, having Dave mentor me along has lowered the anxiety of competition for me. Dave is going to call for me and will be there with advice and support. Without that, it would be a much bigger psychological hurdle to jump in and show your stuff. Another thing that helped me with contest anxiety was calling for Dave at last years nationals. I was not flying in the competition and so the anxiety level was low. I could learn how the contest flows and be involved without having a large stake in the contest. Except for helping Dave win. Having that experience was huge. I had a fantastic time. I met some really cool people and got to see some excellent models. Cant beat that. Now when I go to my first contest I will know what to expect.

So here is my advice to those involved in scale competition and those that are not but want to be. All you scale competitors out there, find someone that is interested in competition to call for you at a contest. Even if they say they are not interested they may be after getting involved. All you would be competitors find a mentor. These scale guys are all pretty cool and will gladly help. All you have to do is show some interest in their airplanes. I am lucky in that I met Dave at the local flying field and asked him about his DIII. After a few conversations Dave asked me if I would like to do a group build on the DV. Who could say no to that. We spent many hours building together and sharing modeling information. I like to think it has been a two way street and Dave has picked up some info from me as well. The hobby is just more fun when you can share it with like minded people. Dave has also given me lots of flying advice that has made me a better pilot. I think this flying season is going to be a lot of fun and I am looking forward to flying at some competitions and some dawn patrols.

There you have it.

Dave S.

I like contests. As a kid I really wanted to compete; RCM and MA really had good writers and contest coverage that made me want in; even made the family go on vacation to take me to the 81 NATS, but my first plane was not finished so I did not get to fly, but got to see the great planes and lurking behind Tom Cooks F4 you can see my legs in MA. I got back into RC in 2000, and flew in my first contest in 2007 and all I can say is I wish there were more around; I would go to them all if I could. I think it is good for the soul to try something different and the people are the greatest, because it is a bunch of people wanting to be in the same place doing the same thing. Most of the pressure is self imposed and everyone I have been around will go out of their way to help you out. I just need to set my self down and build a real competitive plane; I will say my "weekend "scale planes have always been accepted into the fold.

You are talking about Dave Johnson, I would assume......Dave is a great Scale Contestant, and like most of us who are deeply involved in Scale, will spend tons of time helping others with their Scale projects.

Are you going to come down to Lakeland with Dave? Top Gun is May 6-10 this year. If possible, anyone interested in Scale competition should make plans to come. It's worth the effort.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

For me it's primarily a cash thing. I can't realistically set aside several hundred (or even thousand) dollars needed to travel to a scale contest in a distant location. Even a weekend trip within Japan can cost two or three hundred bucks. In my professional life, I attend perhaps one or two conferences a year. Luckily I have a research budget that covers that travel. RC is an expensive hobby. Every dollar I'd spend on travel to a scale event is a dollar I wouldnt' have to spend on RC supplies.

Second is perhaps a sense that I don't want to "play the game" of scale contests. For example, the whole documentation thing sounds like classic hoop-jumping. Ditto on the minimum viewing distant rule. In my perfect world, I'd want to let the judge crawl right into the cockpit and move the rudder pedals around. I know there are probably perfectly good reasons that the rules are the way they are. But I don't care. And I definitely don't care about learning tricks to "work the system."

And finally, I don't actually care that much about the flying part yet don't like the idea of "team scale." To me, if you're not flying a model you build with your own two hands, then you might as well be flying an ARF. And a builder who isn't also the flyer is missing some vital part of the whole experience. The sort of scale event I might enter would be judged first and foremost (and overwhelmingly) on static craftsmanship and scale/historical accuracy, for example, additional points would be offered for finding solid evidence that a three view or plan was wrong. Flying would be required (to keep model builders honest) but as long as you could take off, fly the circuit, and land in one piece, you'd get the "flight points." Sort of the opposite of what you have in pro-am style competitions, where static is just some minimum points.

For all these reason, I don't imagine I'll ever participate in a scale contest.

Scale competion is the love of the sport only and not flying. Contest's are very limited on the flying aspect with only 3 or 4 flights in a weekend. They can be very boring sitting around for hours on end. You must like to visit or it makes for a long weekend. Good Luck, Dave

The more I think about it, my idea of a great scale "contest" would be a scale funfly with an optional judging table with TopGun quality judges/expert scale modelers there who would constructively critique any model presented but not bother assigning a score. In this perfect world, only Jet modelers would judge jets and only WWI specialists would judge WWI models, etc.

On the other hand, all it takes is one look at Pete McDurmott's Snipe to know what's wrong with mine. I don't need a judge to tell me what's wrong.

Abu, you kind of miss the point from my perspective. You do get points for pointing out errors on 3 or 5 views, every model I compete with has marked up views referencing photos as to what is correct. photos take presedence and in order to do well you must incorporate the actual plane yopu are buildings features. As to hoops, life is hoops. Whether racing, flying, or shooting tiddly winks, any time anyhing is organized, rules apply. a properly built model can succesfully compete in any contest including FAI succesfully. as to hoops, You need a poodle suit to get through FAI. I have done it and am stoked to do it more. Mountains to climb and all that.

This is my objection in a nutshell. But I'm glad that other people do enjoy it and I certainly enjoy seeing the models it spurs them on to create.

The documentation part for you, Don, would be your strong point. The agony of you pouring over pictures and picking out what you see is important is exactly what you do in your threads and it is what the judges are looking at. Technically you can build a perfect plane to bad documentation and win, but in reality you are being judged by peers who like the same things you do and seem to go way out of the way to be fair. And as for travel, come on, a professor can afford to fly back to the US every weekend with a model for some flying. You have a special case that cant be helped. Times are hard now, but if there were a bunch with 200 miles of my house I would be going. The closest is 300 which I go to but the next is 450 and that is too far unless I am making news. The flying part is not bad. I think the flying is a little stogy the way it is done as their is no real groove, but it is fair. If you build a fighter, you should not fly it like a Cub and the reverse is the same. Flying it brings the soul out of the plane; they are not static objects but are alive. Every time I go to an air museum, I wish I could get the planes out and see them fly; they seem to be sad be cause they were benched for being too good. I know that you cant go fly the Spirit of St. Louis but to me it always looks sad looking for its owner to come back and fly it. When you fly a scale plane, you become that owner. The great designers make sure the plane is flyable; you can fly a brick with enough hp, but making the plane work and look good is what makes it not a static model.

Hi,

I was talking about Dave Johnson in my post. He has helped me out alot. Abu, I think you would like the dawn patrol fly in we have here in the midwest. Again, i am lucky to be in an area of the country with a lot of WWI modelers. I like all types of models but WWI is very near the top. Competition is not for everyone. I have a bit of a competitive streak in me. Not huge but I like to compete. There are many scale guys that build beautiful models (I have seen them in person and on RCU) that have no interest in competition. That is cool. There are also guys who go to the meets that are not serious competitors. They are just there to be with other scale modelers and fly a bit. That is cool too. My comments were directed at those who think scale competition might be fun but are intimidated at giving it a try as well as the regular competitors who would like to build the ranks at the contests. I may try competition and decide it is not for me. Then it will be fly in city for a while. I know I will not give up building and flying scale. It is just too much fun. I also look forward to promoting the hobby and helping out anyone interested in it. My reason for doing that are sort of selfish in that if I get another person involved that is just another source of scale models to admire.

I will not be going to top gun this year. I have only so many "travel points" to spend and for me Top Gun would eat up a lot of those points. I have been in the past though and it is a fun meet, at lest from a spectators point of view. I imagine it will be fun to compete some day too. It would be a honor to be invited. But that is down the road a way. I also want to say there is quite a bit of talent on this web site. I really enjoy following the build threads and seeing the clever techniques people develop to build their models.

Dave S.

For me there were two big barriers. First, having a plane that - although maybe not really competitive - won't embarrass me in front of the other scale builders. Second, being able to fly the thing successfully - again without looking like a moron.
Now that I have attended a few events I realize that both barriers were bogus. A lot of people show up with slightly modified ARFs which they can fly and have a ball. They really aren't competing for the awards but they are still enjoying themselves and learning a lot. The ARFs usually fly fairly well, depending on the plane (In WW-I events, SE-5's are good flyers, DR-I's not).
I wish I had realized this a lot earlier.

Now I have been taking my little Sopwith Pup to a couple of recent scale events. It is not going to win but it is good enough to have some pride in. I am finding that it is more competitive than I would have thought - and that many of the pilots really aren't much better than I am. I should have participated much earlier. It is a lot of fun.
The Pup even got some award (I haven't got it yet because I left the event too early - a friend picked it up for me) at the One Eight Air Force meet in Arizona a few weeks back. Then, last Saturday, it got a second at the Gilman Springs Dawn Patrol (California) with my friend Curtis flying it.
You will be seeing me at every scale event I can get to now!

OK. I admit it. It's really about justification. My wife would kill me if she thought I'd gone to Germany just to talk with Chris about model airplanes, but if I can claim I was "doing work at a conference" she might let it pass!

I knew the real reason.

I think what most dont realize is that when you just show up to have your plane judged, no matter the shape, the collective group has respect for you.

Don't worry about looking like a moron. Everyone has a starting place. Don't ever think that those who are at the top levels in this hobby started out on top. Every one of the big names started at the bottom, and what you see from them today is the result of many years of trial and error. That is the beauty of the Judging regime found at the top levels. When you have to give one of the Big Guys a down check for failing to follow his own documentation, they always come back around once judging is completed, and say thank you for pointing our the infraction. They use the judging as a tool to improve their model. You can see from year to year, who pays attention to the judging sheet and who does not.

Bill, Waco Brother #1

After competing in, judging & contest directing scale contests for more than 2 decades I have to say they have their good & bad sides.

The good? No one is made to feel unwelcome, everyone is keen to help anyone else if they have problems. Most contest directors are aware of how important a contest is and usually bend the rules where needed to help a struggling competitor or someone with some bad luck. These same contest directors also stick strictly to the rules when it's an important championship rather than a contest designed to simply promote scale competition.

Weekends away with friends, Saturday night dinners with all the BS flowing, hung over flights on Sunday morning, all part of the comraderie that goes with the scale (or, I guess, any other type of model competition) competition scene. The waiting between flights is no problem, a chance to watch your competitors & their own struggles & triumphs and a chance to sort any problems you may have.

The models are all different, not just one pattern plane after another. And the improvement to your flying precision can only come from competition. Even the 'simple' manoevres can be flown badly, it's not as easy as it looks! - John.

The bad? Cheats (mostly young guys) and the rule benders (the old guys). Some contest directors are too scared to jump on them for fear of offending them. Many competitors let things ride for the same reasons.

Judges. Some do this thankless task fabulously. Unfortunately judges are in short supply so we suffer what we are left with. Many hardly ever fly models so have little knowledge of what's involved or the rules but are so fast to score incorrectly. Others give great scores (only to their mates), some want to change the rules but rather than use the right channels to do so wait until they are judging.

Nooby knob-heads. They turn up at a contest as the local ace of their own club, have not bothered to check up on the rules and then spit the dummy when they score badly in static, flying or both. They then go on their merry way saying what fools the scale contest guys are forgetting that they are a victim of their own stupidity.


Like any form of competition, scale flying means starting at the bottom & working your way up. The genuine people will kill a nooby with kindness & help.

Please don't say how bad it is if you have never competed. I think it's rewarding & fun if your flying has developed to the point where you are bored 'boring holes in the sky'. - John.

I guess I have no real excuses other then a summer that is 3 months long and has 6 months worth of things to do! Although I love building stand off/sport scale airplanes, taking the time to find out where the nearest contest is, isn't very high on my list of things to get done. Then, the fact that I could not afford to take the airplane on to any further contests and I simply loose interest.

Mode One makes a good point. While I might be able to enter a local contest I could never really take on the expense of attending a progressive series of such contests. In essence then unless I could walk right into US scale nationals or FAI finals, I really couldn't take on the cost of a whole "contest circuit."

But like everything else in life, it's about where you want to spend your money. I'm sure I'm no more strapped for cash than most RC hobbyists. Some may happily spend hundreds of dollars a year attending contests, while I might more happily spend those same hundreds of dollars on historical materials or visits to air museums or model supplies.

Im like TFF if therre where more scale contest closer then I would try to make all of them, the local clubs here have no interest in holding any type of scale contest, or pattern as far as that goes, but for me its taking pride in what you built and having your plane judged, its really alot of fun, and you meet great people, I as well as TFF will be back at the Mint Julep to try our luck again, pending any unforseen event, so hope to see everyone there, anyone who knows about the Mint should try and make it, its really one of the premier scale events in the country and its just around the corner.

Check this out. Just about anyone but Abu should be able to find something!

http://www.scalemasters.org/2009_qualifier_012309.html

" Hi, I am curious why more people don't compete at scale contest?"

You need to understand, that some people do not feel it necessary to " Compete ", in order to prove anything to anybody. Thank goodness that this hobby is different strokes for different folks.

Ed

Let's see the five nearest qualifiers "to my neighborhood" in the southeast. Driving distance/times according to Yahoo maps: NY @ 493mi/8hr 40min, OH @ 605mi /10h 9m, NATS @ 627mi/11h 50m, KY @ 687mi/11h 10m & Top Gun @ 713mi/10h 49m (invitation only). Then the Championships are @ 2844.1mi/ 42h 32m driving, ABU can probably get there quicker.
Makes it tough to justify attending or competing for someone who works in the retail sales field and gets one in four weekends off (usually not the one of the events). See ya'll @ Top Gun'09 in a few weeks though, can't miss out on all that fun and fellowship!