Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!
10-02-2011, 10:16 PM
#601
Thread Starter
RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!
That's pretty much my thinking. I could get the MR kit built faster than doing a scratch-built tripe...particularly since if I did the tripe I'd want to really go all out with a miniature replica. And with the MR kit, I'd have a proven model that I could safely mount the Seidel in. I did exchange a couple emails with Mick and he also recommended the 1/4.1 kit but couldn't really say anything about using the Seidel.
And at about $500 including components like a spun metal cowl, wheel and gun kits, flat flying wires, stainless fittings, etc. it seems like a bargain.
And at about $500 including components like a spun metal cowl, wheel and gun kits, flat flying wires, stainless fittings, etc. it seems like a bargain.
10-04-2011, 12:37 AM
#602
Thread Starter
RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!
The only issue I have so far, and it's more of a battery issue than an engine issue, is that the engine starts easily with a fully charged 2V 5000mAh battery to light the plugs. But I've had absolutely no luck whatsoever trying to start it with 1.5V batteries. So as long I have a 2V battery everything's fine. But is it just completely impossible to start it off 1.5V? I've ordered one of the Hyperon 0606i AC/DC devices to charge the 2V batteries I bought in the US as well as the LIPO battery I'll eventually use for the on-board glow system (from Microsens). But my clubmates and I have tried various 1.5V battery types and we get nothing whatsoever. I'm concerned about this since won't the LIPO be 1.5V as well?
10-04-2011, 03:42 AM
#603
RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!
Hello don,
Ok, I believe that the nicads might not give you 1.5 volts when all 7 plugs draw current. Might only be 1.2 or so and that's not enough.
But BEWARE: LIPOS have 3.7 Volts per cell!!! (4.2 when fully charged, down to 3.0 when empty) TOO MUCH! The GLOW 7 LP will reduce that to the required current, though. But never take a lipo and connect it directly to the plugs!That would kill the plugs!
Great that your engine finally came to life! It's fun, isn't it?
cheers, Martin
Ok, I believe that the nicads might not give you 1.5 volts when all 7 plugs draw current. Might only be 1.2 or so and that's not enough.
But BEWARE: LIPOS have 3.7 Volts per cell!!! (4.2 when fully charged, down to 3.0 when empty) TOO MUCH! The GLOW 7 LP will reduce that to the required current, though. But never take a lipo and connect it directly to the plugs!That would kill the plugs!
Great that your engine finally came to life! It's fun, isn't it?
cheers, Martin
10-04-2011, 04:00 AM
#604
Thread Starter
RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!
That makes sense. So that means there's no possibility of running a NiCD based on-board glow system? Anyway, the Hyperion 0606i AC/DC charger I ordered (yesterday) arrived C.O.D. today and I'm already charging the 2V batteries for the engine break-in. And it can handle LIPO charging as well so I'm set for the GLOW 7 LP setup.
And, yeah, running the Seidel is more fun than a barrel of monkeys!
I can hardly wait to get an airplane behind it!
Oh, and you were right, there really is nothing to running the engine. You just make sure fuel is flowing, reduce the carb to about 1/4, connect the power, and flip the prop. It's maybe the easiest to start engine I've ever had.
And, yeah, running the Seidel is more fun than a barrel of monkeys!
I can hardly wait to get an airplane behind it!Oh, and you were right, there really is nothing to running the engine. You just make sure fuel is flowing, reduce the carb to about 1/4, connect the power, and flip the prop. It's maybe the easiest to start engine I've ever had.
10-04-2011, 04:24 AM
#605
RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!
Hi Don,,
No, that's not entirely correct: The old GLOW7 used NiCDs! However, I used four- or five cells - so 4.8 to 6 volts - as for the receiver. The GLOW7 would reduce that to the required current...
With any onboard glow system it would be like that. After all, that is the very reason for having a glow system on board and not just a couple of batteires with an electronic on/off switch: the main job of any on board glow system is to provide the correct current and Amps at the right time...
BTW, I am currently studying a whole new set of systems: I am going turbine! So I have to know abtout jetfuel systems, pneumatic systems with electronic valves anddoor sequencer, power box with servo matching, scale lights system, brakes, air brakes, high voltage servos... uh, oh, Iam back in the books! So much to know. But tons of fun!
From a history point of viewI am taking the next logical step - well, "chrono-logical" step I should say - as well: My first jet is a F 86 Sabre which, as you probably know, replaced the big radial engine driven warbirds, such as Corsair and Thunderbolt in the late 40ies/early 50ies.
Cheers, Martin
So that means there's no possibility of running a NiCD based on-board glow system?
With any onboard glow system it would be like that. After all, that is the very reason for having a glow system on board and not just a couple of batteires with an electronic on/off switch: the main job of any on board glow system is to provide the correct current and Amps at the right time...
BTW, I am currently studying a whole new set of systems: I am going turbine! So I have to know abtout jetfuel systems, pneumatic systems with electronic valves anddoor sequencer, power box with servo matching, scale lights system, brakes, air brakes, high voltage servos... uh, oh, Iam back in the books! So much to know. But tons of fun!
From a history point of viewI am taking the next logical step - well, "chrono-logical" step I should say - as well: My first jet is a F 86 Sabre which, as you probably know, replaced the big radial engine driven warbirds, such as Corsair and Thunderbolt in the late 40ies/early 50ies.
Cheers, Martin
10-04-2011, 05:02 AM
#606
Thread Starter
RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!
BTW, I am currently studying a whole new set of systems: I am going turbine! So I have to know abtout jet fuel systems, pneumatic systems with electronic valves and door sequencer, power box with servo matching, scale lights system, brakes, air brakes, high voltage servos... uh, oh, I am back in the books! So much to know. But tons of fun!
10-04-2011, 09:55 AM
#610
RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!
Isn't that the ugliest thing you have ever seen?
I have only one question:
WHY?
lets go back to OLDbipes and radials in this thread....
I have only one question:
WHY?
lets go back to OLDbipes and radials in this thread....
10-04-2011, 07:15 PM
#611
Thread Starter
RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!
At this point, I've run 1.5 liters of fuel at the 90% methanol, 10% oil mix. And now I'm out of methanol until I get more from the vet(erinarian) in my club. He uses the stuff in his clinic and I'm sort of "breaking him in" to the idea of providing me with larger amounts. It seems it's a "controlled substance" in Japan. Anyway, I gave him a couple of 4-liter jugs last weekend and seemed OK with giving me that much when we meet again on the weekend. By the way, he suggested that I store the methanol in "tall containers" which would allow as little air contact surface as possible. Apparently 99% pure methanol "wants" to take in moisture from the air. For my next set of runs, I'll mix up a batch of 8% oil fuel.
Now that I have the battery issue (for sufficient power to the 7 plugs) sorted out, the 770 has been starting on the first flip (if I flip it right). And I've now run the engine up to full throttle and it sounds fine. At low throttle, without power connected, I'm getting considerable vibration, which I take to mean that one or more of the cylinders aren't firing. With power to the plugs, this smooths out. So that's another reason to have an on-board glow system.
Now that I have the battery issue (for sufficient power to the 7 plugs) sorted out, the 770 has been starting on the first flip (if I flip it right). And I've now run the engine up to full throttle and it sounds fine. At low throttle, without power connected, I'm getting considerable vibration, which I take to mean that one or more of the cylinders aren't firing. With power to the plugs, this smooths out. So that's another reason to have an on-board glow system.
10-26-2011, 04:03 AM
#612
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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!
Glad to see more Radial guys out here !
I have the ST 710 and it's been great. Used the Glow 7 untill it somehow shorted out - blew 4 of my 7 plugs! Anyway the new Glow 7LP and Balancer and new glow wires just got here day before yesterday. Now I am in the where to mount stage, using the balancer changes up how I had the on board glow steup, no matter it will work!
I need to go to the LHS and pick up a new set of Glow plugs either today or this weekend depending on free time, then I can test the new setup. I may just use the 3300 NiMh that I have from the old Glow 7 at first, but then again the lipo or LiFe is a nice alternative.
Martin, how much battery do you use in a flight with the Glow 7LP and a lipo?
Martin for the cost of a nice Jet, you could almost buy a full scale 152 LOL.. I looked at just but the low cost RTF I found at my club was still 6K USD. I'd rather use that as money toward my 997 S.
Turbines are cool no doubt and if you think about it, they are based off a radial design, look at the impeller....
Cheers!
Chas
I have the ST 710 and it's been great. Used the Glow 7 untill it somehow shorted out - blew 4 of my 7 plugs! Anyway the new Glow 7LP and Balancer and new glow wires just got here day before yesterday. Now I am in the where to mount stage, using the balancer changes up how I had the on board glow steup, no matter it will work!
I need to go to the LHS and pick up a new set of Glow plugs either today or this weekend depending on free time, then I can test the new setup. I may just use the 3300 NiMh that I have from the old Glow 7 at first, but then again the lipo or LiFe is a nice alternative.
Martin, how much battery do you use in a flight with the Glow 7LP and a lipo?
Martin for the cost of a nice Jet, you could almost buy a full scale 152 LOL.. I looked at just but the low cost RTF I found at my club was still 6K USD. I'd rather use that as money toward my 997 S.
Turbines are cool no doubt and if you think about it, they are based off a radial design, look at the impeller....
Cheers!
Chas
10-26-2011, 05:22 AM
#613
RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!
Commonly referred to as centrifugal as opposed to axial as to turbine flow. Also most axial have two stages of turbine/compressor and modern ones are of high bypass design achieving as much or more thrust from the fan as the exhaust. It would be very difficult to scale down that design. Centrifugal engines are roughly(very) a turbocharger with a combustion section.
Doc
Doc
10-26-2011, 06:07 AM
#614
RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!
Hi chas,
well, in one Airplane (the Aero) Ihave a 1 cell 6000 lipo. (Actually 1s2p 3000). That seems to be good for two or three starts of engine... Too little if you ask me! I think there is a problem. Either the batteries are not good anymore or something wrong with the cables, balance.. Who knows.
The other has a 1s4p with a total of 5000 mAh. That seems to last forever - at least a lot of flights... No need to recharge during the course of a day's flying.
Depending on the weight you need (in the tail) I would take the biggest possible battery. Rather than carrying useless sheets of lead...
Cheers,
Martin
well, in one Airplane (the Aero) Ihave a 1 cell 6000 lipo. (Actually 1s2p 3000). That seems to be good for two or three starts of engine... Too little if you ask me! I think there is a problem. Either the batteries are not good anymore or something wrong with the cables, balance.. Who knows.
The other has a 1s4p with a total of 5000 mAh. That seems to last forever - at least a lot of flights... No need to recharge during the course of a day's flying.
Depending on the weight you need (in the tail) I would take the biggest possible battery. Rather than carrying useless sheets of lead...
Cheers,
Martin
10-27-2011, 09:12 AM
#616
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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!
ORIGINAL: Spuetz
No, you can use any old cable - Microsens' is just NICE! Like the engine, like the hobby.. nice-to-have! Not needed!
a cable is a cable is a cable. Doesn't matter which one you use! just cut your original cables off at the end, take a bit of insulation off and stick them into the balancer.
Now that's a very interesting question to which Peter Klementschitz (he ''is'' microsens) has a very clever answer. To understand the answer, though, you have to understand a bit about electric current.
Normally you fire up a glow plug by connecting the red cable to the center bit of the plug (the ''plus'' pole if you will) and the black cable anywhere else on the engine ( the ''minus'' pole). Right?
Now let's say we had two glow plugs - like for a two cylinder engine... You could now go an connect the red cable to the center bit of plug # 1 and the black cable to the center bit of plug # 2.
Really?
Really!
Why?
Well, the current would run though the red cable into the center bit of plug # 1, through the bit that glows which is connected to the outside bit of the plug, right? This outside bit is connected to the engine, right? So the current continues its journey through the engine and finds another plug on the other side. Runs into the bit that glows in that plug, into the center bit where it finds the black cable and back to the battery. A closed curcuit. Works fine! This is my setup with the GLOW4B on my SAITO FG 182....
Problem: You need an EVEN number of cylinders for this to work, cause other wise the resistance of the one half of.... no... I am not going to bore you to tears with the details...[img][/img]
But! A Seidel has only 7 cylinders. What to do?
Well, you could add an 8th plug that just hangs around heating up the cowling interior. Or you could use it to heat up the cockpit, or have two plugs per cylinder as with the grown up aviation engines...
or...
you need a little electric piece that is called a ''resistor''. It has to have the same ''resistance'' as a normal glow plug. This resistor is used as plug #8 .
So with the GLOW 7 without balancer this is what you do: connect any four plugs to one pole (say: ''red'') and the other three AND the resistor to the other pole (''black'') . the resistor is connected on the other side to the engine mount much like you do with your black cable now. And bang, you're in business.
GOOD THING: the resistor comes with the GLOW7! And a detailed english manual as well that explains all of this.
here are pictures where you can see that little golden resistor: You can see that the black line is fixed to the engine mount and the red line joins the other seven yellow ones to the GLOW7...
And one picture showing the blancer on a different model. here you can see on station ''G'' a black cable. This is connected to the engine mount. In other words: This balancer has that resistor that I was talking about, built in
So, it would seem that you CAN'T use the BALANCER at all without the separate cables from Microsen. Is this correct?
And it seems that I can't use the GLOW7LP with the glow cables that came with the engine.
Actually, I can't even see how one could connect a set of 7 glow cables directly to the GLOW7LP.
Normally you fire up a glow plug by connecting the red cable to the center bit of the plug (the ''plus'' pole if you will) and the black cable anywhere else on the engine ( the ''minus'' pole). Right?
Now let's say we had two glow plugs - like for a two cylinder engine... You could now go an connect the red cable to the center bit of plug # 1 and the black cable to the center bit of plug # 2.
Really?
Really!
Why?
Well, the current would run though the red cable into the center bit of plug # 1, through the bit that glows which is connected to the outside bit of the plug, right? This outside bit is connected to the engine, right? So the current continues its journey through the engine and finds another plug on the other side. Runs into the bit that glows in that plug, into the center bit where it finds the black cable and back to the battery. A closed curcuit. Works fine! This is my setup with the GLOW4B on my SAITO FG 182....
Problem: You need an EVEN number of cylinders for this to work, cause other wise the resistance of the one half of.... no... I am not going to bore you to tears with the details...[img][/img]
But! A Seidel has only 7 cylinders. What to do?
Well, you could add an 8th plug that just hangs around heating up the cowling interior. Or you could use it to heat up the cockpit, or have two plugs per cylinder as with the grown up aviation engines...
or...
you need a little electric piece that is called a ''resistor''. It has to have the same ''resistance'' as a normal glow plug. This resistor is used as plug #8 .
So with the GLOW 7 without balancer this is what you do: connect any four plugs to one pole (say: ''red'') and the other three AND the resistor to the other pole (''black'') . the resistor is connected on the other side to the engine mount much like you do with your black cable now. And bang, you're in business.
GOOD THING: the resistor comes with the GLOW7! And a detailed english manual as well that explains all of this.
here are pictures where you can see that little golden resistor: You can see that the black line is fixed to the engine mount and the red line joins the other seven yellow ones to the GLOW7...
And one picture showing the blancer on a different model. here you can see on station ''G'' a black cable. This is connected to the engine mount. In other words: This balancer has that resistor that I was talking about, built in
Martin, a couple items to ask you about.
First you added a connector to the ends of the yellow wires that go into the balancer. What did you use?
Next (again) the numbering clips on the wires, I can't find them anywhere, where did you get them?
Lastly on the Glow 7LP, they do not include the resistor only a donut with the servo wire passing thru it - depending on if you use it with the balancer. No balancer = resistor added.
Cheers
10-28-2011, 12:05 AM
#617
RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!
>First you added a connector to the ends of the yellow wires that go into the balancer. What did you use?
Just a 4mm gold plug. You can use deans connectors as well.
> Next (again) the numbering clips on the wires, I can't find them anywhere, where did you get them?
hardware store. electricians use them.
> Lastly on the Glow 7LP, they do not include the resistor only a donut with the servo wire passing thru it - depending on if you use it with the balancer. No balancer = resistor added.
That is strange! It should be there! Write to Peter Klementschitz. He should send it to you!
Cheers, Martin
Just a 4mm gold plug. You can use deans connectors as well.
> Next (again) the numbering clips on the wires, I can't find them anywhere, where did you get them?
hardware store. electricians use them.
> Lastly on the Glow 7LP, they do not include the resistor only a donut with the servo wire passing thru it - depending on if you use it with the balancer. No balancer = resistor added.
That is strange! It should be there! Write to Peter Klementschitz. He should send it to you!
Cheers, Martin
10-28-2011, 05:02 AM
#618
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RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!
Thank you Martin, I'll go by my local electricians store.
Here is a pic of the Glow 7LP, no resistor.
It seems that when you order a Glow 7 Lp if you get the balancer you do not need the resistor, if you do not get the balancer the resiter is required. Look at the dropdown box.
[link]http://www.microsens.at/shopping/product_info.php/info/p11_GLOW9LP.html/XTCsid/60e826efff00fb86f29037958ff25289[/link]
Here is a pic of the Glow 7LP, no resistor.
It seems that when you order a Glow 7 Lp if you get the balancer you do not need the resistor, if you do not get the balancer the resiter is required. Look at the dropdown box.
[link]http://www.microsens.at/shopping/product_info.php/info/p11_GLOW9LP.html/XTCsid/60e826efff00fb86f29037958ff25289[/link]
10-28-2011, 05:18 AM
#619
RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!
Ah, I see. So what did you order? Did you order the balancer? If not - you'll need the resistor, as you know now. I guess a resistor can be found in the US. Just ask Peter about the specifications. Then go to the your local electronics shop and get a resistoralong with the cable clips (and the tools, you always wanted, and the cable binders, and - oh - that nice electronic soldering iron - not to forget the Ampère-Meter .... - well that's how I function in shops like that - very dangerous 
10-28-2011, 06:40 AM
#620
Thread Starter
RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!
I still haven't ordered one of the GLOW7LP but plan to soon. I've just been focusing on getting the engine running and looking for a model to put it in. By the way, in order to charge the 2V lead cells I've used for starts, I needed to buy a charger than will also work perfectly for the GLOW7 5000 lipo you recommended earlier.
By the way, I tried to get the motor running yesterday but the 2V batteries must have been a little "flat" (charged about 2 weeks ago and sitting since). It seems that there is really no way in hell to get the Seidel 770 started with anything less than that full 2V. If it doesn't kick over on the first flip or two, it's just not going to start.
I've ordered one of the MR Strutter kits.
By the way, I tried to get the motor running yesterday but the 2V batteries must have been a little "flat" (charged about 2 weeks ago and sitting since). It seems that there is really no way in hell to get the Seidel 770 started with anything less than that full 2V. If it doesn't kick over on the first flip or two, it's just not going to start.
I've ordered one of the MR Strutter kits.
10-28-2011, 11:12 AM
#622
RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!
After using glow 5lp and lipo on my 5 cylinder asp for a while and having start problems due to too little capasity lipo battery i have now swapped the system for a tenergy 10000 mah 1.2v nimh battery and a micro switch on the servo and THICK LEADS and it works much better!
It is difficult to find a 10000mah 3.7v lipo.
It is difficult to find a 10000mah 3.7v lipo.
10-28-2011, 01:15 PM
#624
Thread Starter
RE: Seidel 7-70 radial: Help me decide!
ORIGINAL: cocobear
Mine started easily on 1.5V with sufficient current supplied.
DJ
Mine started easily on 1.5V with sufficient current supplied.
DJ