Dog Soldier

OK timeout, let’s start afresh....Back to smoking models

sevoblast

No problem, I got mine crossed too, and my very dry sense of humor sometimes doesn't help.
Anyhow, back to smokers. Stan on here makes what is probably the best smoker out there. He has a KT build thread going, me me find the link, and if memory serves his smoker was shown in that thread.

rivetcounter

Here is a list of fully restored German tanks along with links to YouTube footage what you will notice is how little they smoke and the ones that do notably the Panzer III and Panther G probably have more running hours on the engine and need new rings or pistons, the Bovington Tiger I and the Littlefield Panther A both have fully rebuilt engines with no expense spared the two tanks from France Panther A and Tiger II are arguably the tanks with the most wear the Panthers where used by the French until mid-1950’s there are a few other restored tanks out there this is just a short list but what you will find is that the StugIV from Poland will not have had anything like the restoration done to the other tanks it will no doubt be using the original piston and rings and probably won’t be running in five years’ time the other thing to be considered is German tanks mid war were using synthetic fuel from coal what we don’t know is what this would have done to the running of the tanks would it have caused more smoke the other is modern engine oils are far more advanced that back then so would they have caused more smoke all that time ago, lastly there are two WWII footage films both of Jagdtigers in the first one Jagdtiger seems to be smoking quite a lot though this could be emphasised by the black and white film

Tiger I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wY_5c0mBXok
Panther A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaLTk...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HGq6G...eature=related
Tiger II
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sqjT...eature=related
Panther A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J43D...eature=related
Jagdpanther
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0NXbG3ojeU
Panther G
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=26cSk60Aj3Y
Jagdpanther
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njFtT...eature=related
Panzer III
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks6NN...eature=related
WWII footage Jagdtiger
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHp3nCkPjb4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6LL4...eature=related

sevoblast

Here's the link to Stan's build, the smoker units are mentioned in there.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10..._1/key_/tm.htm

Dog Soldier

Nice vids...I was lucky enough to see the T 1 in the first vid in action, awsome thing to see.

Dog Soldier

thanks for the link.

Dog Soldier

Test two...Does it smoke?...Yes



Does it smoke in unit?....er! sort of



Er!!! where's all that smoke gone??? well most of it is coming out of the unit as the 40mm fan can't cope with it.

Other problems, runs far too hot - power drainage - needs some kind of liquid indicator...

Oh well...Back to the drawing board

Panther G

To me, the most useful smoke unit would be one that was activated by the main gun and shot a puff of smoke from the barrel as the gun fires. I know Torpedochief was working on something like this but haven't heard of any progress being made.

strmnd54

Dog Soldier ; I've been building mini-smoker using discarded H.L. units for more than a year now ....I also use a refilling probe that serves as low level fluid indicator as well ....
Her's a few self explaining pics :

I also posted a small video of my unit running low on fluid ; where you can see the smoke coming off the refill probe ....
www.youtube.com/watch

Dog Soldier

Dog Soldier

that's a great looking unit...Big thanks for posting it....well I know what I'll be doing next week.

danlrc

DanLRC here, (or DanL on RCGroups).
Sevoblast, thanks for the refererence link to the smoker in my KT build. Slight correction - the name is Dan, not Stan.

Here's some smoker info -
Three or four people have been working a lot on developing a really good smoker - Strmnd54 on RCGroups>Cars>RCTanks - is one who has done and is doing some great development work. I've put in a lot of testing and development too and think I have a good, long-lasting design.
I tried to sell a smoker (a confession here) - the "Supersmoker" - thru RCCommand (now defunct - gone without a trace), but found how easy it is to lose money trying to be a supplier. I am thinking about starting up again and selling thru an on-line tank supplier, but perhaps not very likely.

Here are some problems in trying to make and sell a smoker:
- There is no "right" smoke level for every customer, so it's hard to choose the design output. Variable level can be done , but adds expense.
- Proportional output is easy to do, but the circuitry is different for each type of model - HL RX boards, Tamiya boards, ESC based units, etc. etc. Solutions are available, but add complexity and expense.
- Install is easy, but there are many customers that can't, or desire not to, even snip and solder a couple of simple wires. Even one dissatisfied customer returning a unit erases profit.
- Smoke is not a priority for many, and even the occasional cleanup and maintenance required (with either oil or water based "fog juice" smoker) is not worth it.
- The time to make a unit and maintaining parts inventory takes the cost up fast (I can't work for Chinese wages).

So....still deciding whether to produce a very simple, straight output, small size, low-cost unit and try to make them available. Another option is selling kits with all parts and instructions. A third is to build custom order units with the features (like proportional output, adjustable base output level) tailored to a specific model. Yet another is to publish all the smoker info here - kind of a build thread for just smokers.
Any thoughts on this?

(Note - an airsoft gun with smoke is being developed now by someone. Will post more info as I find out more and given an OK to post....)

strmnd54

I also used the rest of the H.L. unit to build a pulse re- generator to get that piston engine exhaust look compare to the jet engine one obtained by using only a fan ....
Here's what the system looked like in my panzer IV as per yesterday ...

www.youtube.com/watch

Dog Soldier

The kit form sounds good...Gives you something to make rather than just plug and play.

Gerula

With kits you'll be also sure that you don't get customers who can't solder a wire, and avoid a lot of problems.

strmnd54

Thecommander ; thanks for the tip about carpet cleaners ; soon or later I will mess again and have to try it ....

Thank you Dan for clearly explaining the situation about smoke units ....I too think that the kit would work better ...
As for me , you must have guessed by now that I have chosen your last option a while ago ....I've been posting all my mods ( including schematics ) on these forums since I joined them ....When peoples are interested in my modifications , they can check on the forums or contact me if they need help ....When I can spare the time ; I'm always more than happy to help ....

Dog Soldier

I'm back.....with my Mk 3 smoker.



Not unhappy with this one, smoke seems about right and hangs around very well. Just a bit of a tidy up here and there,

Dog Soldier

If I knew how to read schematics would be a bigger help to me LOL! As you can tell, I'm not electronically minded, wouldn't know what to do with acircuit board if I fell over one...but it's never stopped me having a go.

strmnd54

It's looking good so far ....
You must have notice that adding a second exhaust pipe reduced the fan's back pressure ....
If you let it run on the test bench for a while you will also start having problems with liquid residue clogging the pipes ....
Some guys are using oversize pipes as a solution , but I choose to experiment with fog fluid leaving less liquid residue ....Hence the motor oil I'm using right now .....

In any case ; building your own smoke units is kind of fun ....

danlrc

Dog,
Be glad to throw in my 2 cents worth on finishing your smoker. Looks great so far. List your batttery voltage and type and milliamphours, what electronics you have (an RX18 board?) and parts used so far - resistor size (ohms and watts), fan size and voltage, wick material, material inside box box, box size etc and I'll post a pictorial circuit for one approach to proportional. Strmnd can probably offer even better advice.
DanL

One tip I haven't followed up on to make a piston-like "putt-putt" smoke: Use baby oil (pure mineral oil) as the smoke base and add some water. The water supposedly causes a "spatter" effect breaking up the smoke stream. I thought I would try oil with glycol/alcohol mix to see what happens. No idea what mix to start with. A lot of room for testing....

strmnd54

Thanks for the tip about the pulse effect Dan ...
As you must know by now ; I did modify a discarded H.L. smoker to make a pulse re-generator ( using the pump motor assembly and some pop bottle caps) ....but if there's an easier way to restore the pulse effect ; I've got to give it a try ....
Here's a video of my unit ....
www.youtube.com/watch

Dog Soldier

Dog Soldier

That sounds good to me, once I finalise everything I’ll put up a post about material, sizes and fitting the unit.

Dog Soldier