Fireman Tim

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The CAN-AM club is on the verge of getting its own outdoor battlefield this spring, and so I thought I'd ask any interested parties or creative lurkers for ideas on the design.

-We are looking at a 40'x60' area to start with.

-Bridges, trenches, hills, forests, roads, urban area, airfield, etc.

-No water features

Submit your designs here on this thread as a picture.

Again, its open to anyone who wants to contribute a design. It could turn into a great archive for others. Lets have some fun with this.

Dana Lowell

Hi Tim,
first I would like to list 10 tips to consider when starting a battlefield. You may have thought of many of these, but here we go...

1) What war front will the battlefield represent? And what time frame? Or will it be generic?
For example, the Danville battlefield is France or Belgium, or maybe inside Germany, in late 1944 or early 1945, (but with no snowfall). Although there is a small corner we call "the Russian farm village" because of the thatched huts. Over the years we have played all kinds of battle scenarios on this field, from Dunkirk to Tobruk to Kursk to Cologne. Plus some post-war scenarios.

2) On thing to keep in mind is that there needs to be some natural line-of-sight barriers between the starting points of the good guys and the bad guys. Otherwise, as soon as you yell "Go!", someone will spam the entire spawn area of the opponents!

3) Since you are outdoors, you need to consider drainage. I visited the Texas battlefield just one week after Hurricane Ike, and a couple new terrain features appeared after the storm!

4) A power supply is important for battery charging, so you don't have to tap into car batteries. And a sheltered workbench area for this stuff would be good.

5) Eventually, you might consider crowd control for the spectators and kids of the tankers. Yellow "Caution" tape works well to keep people from stepping on Rommel's defenses!

6) For security reasons, you cannot leave any model buildings outside. Kids will smash them with dirt bikes and burn your army men! So you need to determine a safe barn or garage to store all the structures between battles. If you had unlimited budget, you could run tall chain-link fence around the entire area. Even if it is in the safety of your own backyard, you still need to beware of dogs and cats leaving "land mines" in the dirt.

7) Before your club invests time and money into structures that benefit the entire group, you need to discuss ownership, a "pre-nup", so to speak. Because, as with any hobby or sport, some dude is going to get grumpy and what to take his toys and go home! So everybody needs to be clear on what belongs to the "home team" if splinter groups should happen.

8) Be careful not to build one "mountain" too high. This could become an unfair "sniper loft" where it is impossible to return fire into the apple fins of that sniper. All zones of the battlefield might have a moderate hill position that is relatively similar to other zones.

9) Frankly, I think you will find 40' x 40' to be a little confining. It doesn't look realistic for model tanks to be bumping barrels - when real tanks fought at a distance. So leave some "blank space" for your tanks to run. The Danville indoor field is 60' x 85', and sometimes there is no room to get your wingman at safe distance, and nowhere to hide from danger. The Texas permanent outdoor field is about 50' x 125', which is a little better, because two skirmishes can take place on opposite ends at the same time without crossfire. The Tamiya emitter shoots about 100 feet indoors and about 80 feet in sunshine, so you have room to expand your blueprint. I would suggest going to at least 40' x 60'. That way, two teams can form up at opposite ends of the long rectangle. This rectangle is the shape many competative paintball fields have...not to mention soccer and football. It gives your platoon time to deploy into fire teams before making first contact. That first moment, as you roll out and watch what the enemy is doing over there, is one of the most exciting aspects of the sport!

10) And one final word of advice for the outdoor battlefield, as far as safety goes, is to be sure you have a flat and clear "sidewalk" around the perimeter of the field. Since RC tankers have their eyes on their tanks...and the enemy tanks..then they have to be able to shuffle and side-step around the edges without tripping on a rock or tree root. Old hobby dudes could break an ankle! (Plus, what about wheelchair accessibility around the field, in case someone does break a leg!)

As to your request, I will submit some design ideas as I think of them...

Good luck.
-Dana
www.heatarmor.com

Dana Lowell

Battlefield Design Ideas:

* Have a series of "objectives" for tank platoons to capture. Maybe each of the four corners could have a valuable enemy strongpoint to capture during certain battle scenarios. One corner could be a radar installation. Others could be ammo dumps, factories, airfields, etc... You can get 1/18th scale ME-262 jets to hide in the woods as an objective. Or find a model rocketry geek with a V-2 rocket to borrow.

* You could base your entire battlefield concept on scenes from your favorite war movies! Have an old wooden factory at the mouth of a railroad tunnel to blow the sh#t out of, like Oddball in Kelly's Heroes. Or a fuel depot on a hilltop to burn, like in the climax of "The Battle of the Bulge". Or build a battle-torn bridgehead like in "The Bridge at Remagen". Or a giant oil storage tank that you can knock over, like John Wayne did with a dozer in "The Fighting Seabeas. Or a big hotel with an anti-tank gun in the basement, like in "The Longest Day". Or a stone oasis to hold on to, like in "Sahara".

* One tank location that I have never seen anyone attempt is the gigantic factory structures of the Stalingrad area. Build factories and warehouses that are two or three scale stories tall inside. Allow for tanks to safely pass through the structures within view of the RC tanker. These buildings might do best on the edge of the battlefield, so guys can actually look down through the bombed out roofs to position their tanks for surprise attacks!

* Or, just do Kursk. Make your entire area into a series of rolling hills of "wheat". Cut tank defense trenches here and there, and have some "burning" farm huts. The hills would have to have enough pitch to hide your apple though. Or maybe a Ferdinand tipped up on it's side to hide behind...or the wing of a crashed Stuka or a small clump of trees....

I don't know. I guess the sky's the limit as to what you could build. -Dana

Fireman Tim

My Feedback: (3)

This is fantastic info Dana. Thank you very much. Perhaps I should copy it and put it in the FAQ.

-I agree that 40'x40' is probably too small and 40'x60' should not be asking too much, so I will amend the first posting to ask for 40'x60' plans.

HAL_HUSKER

Dana, this is awesome, thanks for sharing...

lposter

The Battlegroup 1942 Mod (http://www.battlegroup42.de/) for Battlefield 1942 has some of the best maps ever for armor combat from all theatres. As well as the widest range of well modelled WWII armour with all correct stats.

Should be a great source of inspiration to any battle field constructor.

p

lposter

Thinking aboout it.....a bocage type setting would suit that scale area given that sight lines and ranges are a lot less in such a landscape.

Bit awkward for all the Russian tanks but stalking Tigers in the hedgerows must be a bit nervewracking.

p

Fireman Tim

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Awesome ideas! I really like the V-1 site idea because Pegasus now has a 1:18 V-1. It would be easy to build and tear down. Just a launch pad and an underground bunker.




lposter, thanks for the link. WOT also has some great maps too but would take an army of modelers to replicate.

lposter

Bllitkrieg from NIval Interactive had some classic armour maps as well - especially the Russian ones with little villages and river beds.

AS well as th ebest selection of Soviet and Axis armour ever! Oooh happy days spent incinerating slabs of oncoming Soviet armour!

P

blitzkrieg65

Well the picture below is not so sofisticated but this is a fast setup and breakdown type field. I has always encouraged the guys to run a simulated river through the middle and space the cover buildings back away from that. But for what ever reason, it still ended up guys mixing it up close in the middle. Tiny in the picture below set it up as seen in the picture and with the physical wall between the two sides of cover buildings closer together,, really change the style of battle for the better. almost all shots where 20 to 30 feet away unitl you get down to the last 2 or 3 and they still ended up being at least 10 feet apart.

The Blitz

Fireman Tim

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I tried doing this with Vstank battles. I ran a river through the middle with a bridge, then trees and towns on either side. There were some that played well and sniped back and forth from behind cover across the river. Then there is alway a hero who tries to cross the bridge, gets killed and blocks it.

Once the players got their heads straight, they would provide covering fire, while one or two tanks crossed the bridge to flank the remaining outnumbered enemy. It does work well if you restrict the crossing points.

I too found that if you put lots of cover in the middle, battles tend to turn into close range skirmishes at ranges.

And this is why I started this thread, to get as much information from experienced tankers on how to build a good battlefield. Thanks Blitz.

I like Dana's Kursk idea where we could make some hull down positions (positions than can be hit from the flanks), patches of cover with wide open spaces in between. A large and deep tank ditch running through the middle with only a few crossing points. An objective on each side that could be used for a capture scenario (ie airfield or small village).

Panther G

The Game Red Orchestra has some very cool maps of the Eastern front. Some of the custom maps are even better. Most are open type battle fields with hills and valleys with some rivers and streams. You can simulate many different battles with some very simple design battle fields.

Fireman Tim

My Feedback: (3)

Yes! One my favorite games (that and Darkest Hour). Good idea!

Panzerpaul

Hi Tim: FRAG would like to offer some suggestions for your battlefield. We have had an outdoor field for over 10 years now, and have learned alot in that time. The most compelling thing we learned is....BUILD INSIDE, NOT OUTSIDE!!!! And although we would like to accomplish this, it may not always be practical. For us there is no military museum close by to associate with, so that leaves leasing a warehouse which of course means someone would be stuck paying a monthly rent (probably me). So, we always joke that we will get indoors as soon as one of us wins the lottery....[:@] In the meantime, having a permanent outdoor battlefield is great, and I would say its a "must" in order to maintain an active club.

Here are some other points for you to ponder:

1. Dana is right...40x40 is way too confining. Our field is 85x150 and its still not wide enough. If we did it over again, we'd make the width 100 feet. However, our space is constricted by natural features so it is what it is.

2. We edged our actual playing field with 4"x4"x12' pressure-treated landscape timbers. This initially worked well, but over the years the ends curled up on many and are now not flat. Doesn't look good and we sometimes trip. Go with RR ties or something that will not warp. We have a 6 foot chain link fence with 3 rows of barbed wire on top, all around the site. This was set 6-8 feet back from the landscape timbers, and the resulting pathway is covered in fine pea gravel for drainage purposes. Even though one might think the fence height and barbed wire would provide adequate security, we have still had someone climb over and steal our wooden bridges. We figure it was probably an adult who was building a Garden Railroad somewhere in the neighborhood. If we ever find the guy, he's dead ! [>:]

3. Our greatest challenge is site cleanup each time before a battle. We did not put down any weed barrier material and should have. Almost every time we have to get on our hands and knees and pull weeds. This takes a lot of time and even though we spray weed killer each spring, it doesn't totally solve the problem. We also must remove leaves, mostly in the spring and late fall. We were happy to have a lot of Cottonwood trees along the west property line because they blocked the sun, but they do create havoc when the leaves fall.

4. For 2-3 years we hauled all the setup items in every month. That got old and we had way too much, so we built an 8x20 ft shed inside the fence. Its about full now, but makes it very easy for setup and teardown. And yes we have had people try to break into it, but so far they have failed. These vandals are probably kids with nothing better to do....maybe they belong to the adult who lifted our bridges!!!

5. We built about 40 foot of wood work benches (24" deep), and covered the surface with plastic material to ward off water puddles and rotting. Only a couple have needed replaced so far. We should have built some kind of roof over this or a full enclosure, because every now and then rain will sneak up real quick and then we hustle like H...L to grab tarps to throw over the models, not to mention all the buildings out on the field. This is another very good reason to build inside.

6. We have no onsite electric or toilet facilities. Toilets are within a block at a community center which isn't so bad, but we still charge 7.2v batteries from 12v auto batteries. Buy an extra one to set on the work tables and keep it charged.

7. Our theme is Normandy 1944. We purchased about a 1000 plastic trees over the first 4 years and over time some have become brittle and faded. They are still useable, but we periodically have to clean the dead leaves from them and spider webs, and spray paint them green. We made hedge rows by taking 2x4s varing from 2-4 feet in length, painting them green, then stapling strands of Christmas garland in place and inserting a few trees into drilled holes. These assemblies are then buried in the ground end to end to make roadways for bocage country.

8. We have a lot of hills (covered with the plastic trees) that block line of sight. They force tanks to drive around or over if there is a mountain trail. There is also the bocage country and then some open areas like the Russian steppes. We fight a variety of battles: One is "Defending the Village" in which case the hills limit line of sight firing so there is ample time for the attackers to navigate the area. The defenders set up first in the village with the attackers prohibited from watching, and then the attackers can choose any corner of the field from which to start. This means that sometimes the defenders are facing the wrong direction, and they are limited to moving and firing only after the attackers have reached a certain point or opened fire themselves.

I agree with Dana, be sure you have either no hills that are excessively high or just make a rule that no tank can shoot from the top, because this is certainly a disadvantage to all below. In theory a real tank probably could not drive up there anyhow because of all the trees to get thru.

Another game is "Open Battle".....in this case enemies start on opposite sides of the field but begin moving forward at the same time and may fire at any time. And we also play "Capture the Flag".....which is usually planted at each base camp, not in the village. This makes tanks drive clear across the field to attack. For all the games, we make the players stand behind the landscape timbers, but they can move around anywhere the wish.

9. Our field features include a main river with a couple side branches. The main fork is too steep for any tank to navigate, which forces the use of bridges, but the other side branches are "dry" and can be used to move around the battlefield. Bridges are cast in concrete, so we can walk on them when setting up or retrieving tanks. We have added a good number of Drangon's Teeth to constrict where tanks may drive, and we made very small flags from 1/32 rod (4" long), bent with a short L shape from which hangs a German Land Mine symbol. These are placed at the defenders choosing, usually in the main area where tanks often drive. You'd be suprised how they disappear from sight when you are concentrating on driving around the field and hiding from the nemy. If you run over one....you are dead.....but the catch is...only if a defender sees you run over it. You'd also be surprised how many defenders forget where they put them and they become dead too, assuming an attacker saw them run over one.

10. In the early years we just put down G scale track (2.75" between the rail) for our railroad feature. This actually worked out to European narrow guage in 1/16th scale and was not very accurate for Normandy. Last year we took it up and started to relay the track in European standard guage size, which is 3&5/8s inches between the rail. This meant cutting the G scale track in half, nailing both sides to a long plywood board (5.5" wide) and filling in the center area with proper shaped wood ties. A nail gun is essential, as are a couple blocks of wood cut with grooves to hold the rails at the 3&5/8s" width.

11. Other features you might want to consider are a RR tunnel, lots of small stones here and there to create natural out-croppings, and lots of dioramas that can be moved around. We have cast sandbags and walls from resin and then glued these to 1/2' plywwod borads in sizes vary from 12"x12" and up. Behind these walls and bags we glued soldiers, guns, boxes, cans etc etc., even Pak 40s and 88s. These dioramas can bet set at many different places on the battlefield for authenticity, but don't really enhance the shooting action, unless something like an 88 can be set up with an IR unit. This would be one way to have a visitor play in the game from the sidelines and maybe get them into the hobby. We also have cast long walls out of concrete. These are permanently placed on the field since they can withstand the weather. Doing this also shortens setup time.

12. The last thing I want to mention is that a couple years go we started casting concrete pads (3" deep) in the shape of each building outline (these are foundations in a sense). These were leveled with the earth which makes the structure set at a proper angle, and it also makes it easy to place a building as they only go on their respective pads. Around the pads we poured more concrete and made streets and sidewalks. Once poured and before hardening, we ran a home made tool over the concrete to cast in brick and cobblestone patterns. These are painted a light redish anf yellowish color and it really enhances the feeling of a village.

So, hope all this gives you guys some good ideas and provides some warnings about what not to do. Let's hope that eventually all the clubs can find indoor areas for their battlefields..............which would make life so much easier...[:@] I have attached some pictures to illustrate some of what was mentioned. Enjoy. PP

Fireman Tim

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PanzerPaul,

outstanding! Fantastic information guys. I really appreciate it. I am going to add what you wrote paul to the FAQ I posted on Dana's battlefield design.

At the moment, we don't have access to on site storage, so our battlefield will be limited to what we can pack in our vehicles. Also, we don't have anyway to secure the site from vandals. I am thinking pine trees, lots of pine trees, nature features that we can dig and build into the field, and small Russian style farm houses and barns.

I think the diorama idea is great. It gives the more creative members some projects they can do and add to the battleday.

We have run on very, very short grass in the past with great success, so as long as the grading and drainage is good, I don't think we will be building the area up.

Captain Action

That is one nice playing feild, I would be proud to have my tank break down there.

Tim I think we should start by tilling up the whole feild in the spring, rake it and frame it with the RR ties. I agree bigger is better.
I like the idea of a village and natural obstacles, rocks , trees and trenches.

Fireman Tim

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Frank,

I have a source for free RR Ties, but I need a truck/trailer to get them.