Hello everyone, I'm new to the RC Tank arena. I've been in the RC Industry since 1980, use to build plane adn helicopters for several clients as well as having several models for myself. I currently fly now and have several helis Ifly on a normal basis. I build and fly scale aircraft so I'm no newby to building or scaling up a scale ship by any means but the point of this post is simple...

I'm trying to find out and make the right decision on purchasing my first tank.

Some finer points I'm looking for in a tank model are as follows:

First I'm looking for one which can be driven in a scale fasion and what I mean is: Being to drive the tank in multiple speeds instead of *on and off* similar to how the giant tanks drive like the 1/6 scale tanks but something along the lines of 1/16th scale is what I'm looking for.

Can you please tell me if the Heng Long tanks offer this type of speed control? I've notices some models can be fitted with 3.1 gearing and all metal gears! will these gears allow a slower speed (scale) if the system has a 2 speed forward control? or should I use different motors and speed controlers to accomplish this?

I understand most of these tanks come with curciut boards already configured to work together with the motors (Gun, Drivetrain and turrent) but in my case, I don't care if Idon't have a simulated firing gun or if it shoots airsoft bb's, I'm looking for actual scale performance. I'm looking to be able to barely creep the tank along or speed it up but to scale appearences, know what I mean?

Isee alot of bells and whistles which come with the HL Tanks form like TankZone... then Isee tanks at Banana Hobby which look the same wiht the same controller as the ones on TZ but they don't say they are HL Tanks! Are these tanks the same models??

I'm confused over all these different sites selling these tanks so please, any help in deciding a good quality tank will be great.

Bottom line in what I'm looking for is this:

~1/16th scale
~Tiger 1 or later
~3.1 Metal gearing (no plastic)
~Preferr metal tracks but pvc will be fine
~Most importantly... Speed control to be able to run at a farely slow creeping speed .

So, doe's the HL tanks offer this out of the box with the different gears?

Sorry for the long post here but I'm a scale nut so this is very important to me. Again I don't care about the sound or firing modules either, Ijust want a good tank to handle different forward speeds similar to scale speeds or the large monster tanks out there.

Thanks everyone....

~Alan~

Hello Alan and Welcome!<div></div><div>Heng Long tanks do have variable speeds, (10 speeds) but it must be smoke and sound edition. It doesn't matter whether it's the metal version or plastic tracks. As long as the tank isadvertisedto have at least sound, you'll have a board that's capable of variable speed.</div><div></div><div>The metal version (usually advertised as metal tracks) has metal gears to begin with, but often times...needs some work. Lapping sometimes helps...but last two I've tried, actually made things worse and made for one loud tank.</div><div></div><div>The Tiger I is a fixer upper right off the bat, (was my first too) so in my opinion....it's not the greatest start off tank for a stickler or one not willing to do some work to it. The hull is the early type with unacceptable wobble and support, which lends to constant track throwing and the strength of the plastic in thickness and tensile strength is not of the same compared to their newer tanks. This could have been improved with newer stock, but as of a year ago....mine is as brittle as fine China.</div><div></div><div>But, nevertheless it's a great tank to own.....eventually. But there's plenty of guys here who has modified the tank and shared their results, so lot's of info here.</div>

The fact that you are an expierienced RC person I would suggest you look directly to the Tamiya RC Tanks. These are built from kit form and are the highest quality.
I am affraid you would be quickly displeased by the entry level quality of the Heng Long tanks. These really are entry level. Most of them require a great deal of modifications to be good runners. Not all but most. With a Tamiya you are all ready set for competition level quality. Some added gear reductions that are much easier to install and some bearings in the road and idler wheels and you are Competition ready.
The detail is also much higher. If you do decide you want to join a club, this is the system they will likely employ. Just get the TBU and you set. The tanks electronics pakage is set to accept the TBU straight from the box.
I would also suggest you check out the AFF Museum for your Tamiya tanks. Karen is a first class supplier to us.

If scale speed, torque, and fine control is what you're after, then you need the HL smoke and sound version. There are still some sites out there foisting off the old two speed (unrealistically fast and absurdly fast) versions so read the descriptions closely.

The critical part is to use the 3:1 gearboxes. They are the difference between creeping away from a start, or doing bunny hops. You can drive the tank fairly realistically with the standard gearboxes but you better be light and precise on the joystick. Whether you buy the 3:1's or do the home conversion, they are the critical element to the control you're looking for. I just did my first conversion to 3:1's on an HL KV-1 and now it's time to do the rest of my tanks!

Depending on your budget and perceived uses for the tank, look at Tamiya's products. You pay more, but the difference is pretty radical one. There are lots of Tamiya owners on here who can give you the low down.

Mike.

Here is a link too the AAF.<div> http://aaftankmuseum.com/</div>

WOW! now this is what I call response! Nice to see so many replies in such a short time. 
Ok so if I may ask.... why are the tamiya tanks costing around 1000.00 versus a HL for say 200?  I know and truly believe in the old saying: *you get what you pay for* but what is so significant in the tamiya line to take such a huge jump in price?

I've seen somewhere that one tamiya kit, I think it was a Tiger model, had some gear issues and the mechanic/owner had to make some major changes to the gearbox. I seen this a while back like a few months ago but can't find anything about it now. Just curious.

Also what the heck is a  TBU?  something only for tanks? I've never heard that before, sorry. But again, I've never owned a tank b4.

I thought I seen somewhere online that Tamiya tanks were selling for around 575 for a Tiger model and some were as high as 1,400.00 WOW!
I would take that money and put it towards a 1/8th i think if I were to pay that much for a 16th scale. A Tamiya at that price would have to have high expectations...  or are they that much better? I have also seen a lot of stuff for RC that has high prices just because of the name too.

I'm not putting down any manufacturer so please bare with me. I'm just trying to get the best value *with in reason* that's all.

I just might consider the Tamiya line if I can keep the price of around 550 or so. I really like the Tiger, I think it's one of the nicest looking tanks out there as far as appearance and especially being one of if not the most destructive tanks of WWII... so I heard anyway on Discovery Channel.

I really have fun driving my Tiger in  the sim called:   *T34 vs Tiger*  Nice tank to play around with. This is what I'm hoping to get into on an RC.

Although I do like others as well like the Bulldog or a Panzer. But I like nice wide tracks and a tough beefed up looking tank, hence the word *Tank* hehe.

Back in the Army I was a 63 Tango on the Bradley Fighting Vehicle during the Desert Storm days. Served  from 87 to 93. It was actually pretty cool and I enjoyed it all except for the war. You never knew what the heck would happen... glad we got out of there.

Anyway... I really appreciate all of your responses and others who may respond as well. I will continue on with more research and see what I come up with and I'll probably have more questions if that's ok with all of you.

I wish I could find some people near me in Tallahassee, Fl who have some tanks that I could go and look at. I posted in the Clubs thread as well asking so hopefully someone will respond in there too.

Thanks again everyone... and please keep an Eye on this thread for more questions if I have any. I'll need all the help I can get hehehe.

Have a great day.

Cheers!
~A~









 

Ok I see this now... and TBU meaning Battle Unit? duh

I would like this one
http://aaftankmuseum.com/TigerI.htm



Also here's a little contribution for those who might need one:
http://www.worldwidemetric.com/measurements.html




~A~

If you want scale speed and detail OTB (out of the box) than Tamiya is your choice. Lower hulls are usually metal, suspension is always metal, and the suspension is prototype, IOW Tigers and Panthers had torsion bar suspension, as does the model. Panzer 4 had external leaf springs, as does the Tamiya model. Wheels and idlers always have bushings, as opposed to Heng Long with just plastic on plastic. Most Tamiya tanks you can put bearings in the wheels with zero mods. Tiger 1 is not one of them, though. Wheels need a little easing out to take bearings.
The Tamiya builds an excellent runner from the kit, stock. There are of course many upgrades you CAN get, but with a Tiger 1, you need virtually nothing, unless you get in to competitions. Instructions are first rate, sound systems have the prototypical sound, IOW the Tigers 1 & 2 were recorded from the King Tiger at Samur Museum in France.
There are also many tricks to make the tanks run better, such as Dean's Plugs for the battery and motors, better motors, etc etc. Still and all, for a straight kit build, you can't go wrong with Tamiya. Of course, during the build you have to decide what paint scheme you want. Here's a couple samples of build up Tamiyas. And some of the detail you can go to, if you want to. Or, you can modify the tank to another model or time era, or like the Sherman, he's a captured German piece with the German 7.5cm, T 34 scrap as additional side armour, and German tool suite.
Me, I build fighters, not models. Even the Jagdtiger will be a fighter this summer.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention. You'd be surprised who's floating around your AO. I in fact used to live in Jax, and at that time we had a heck of a club going. Club is pretty much gone now, as me and most the other lads have moved, although I hold the record for distance.

Beautiful work mate. That's what I'm talken bout!. So all in all it sounds like the Tamiya line is the way to go then.
So the Tiger kit has a few issues compared to others out of the box? How bout the Panther line which I noticed is very similar in tracks and road wheels as the Tiger?  I don't have to have a Tiger but I do tend to like appearance since this is a first impression so to speak.

Here's the ones I like:  Panther, Bulldog, Tiger 1, king T, M-26 and the KV-1  any of these would sit well with me as long as I don't get one and find stuff about it making me think I should of got the *other one*.

After looking at a few at AAF let me ask, do these all come with metal tracks and 380 motors? I haven't gotten into the descriptions yet but if one is better then the other please point them out to me. 

Man this is really tough to decide on but I know the toughest thing in the world no matter what it is (planes trains or automobiles) and that's the fact of choosing your color scheme and pattern design... but being an artist and painting some of the most awesome planes and helis around this wont be a prob for me.

Thanks fellas!
~A~

Panther, Tiger 1, Sherman, Pershing, Panzer 4, and KV are excellent runners OTB. Tracks are strong, the stock Tamiya transmissions are first rate (and DON'T use any compounds to 'break' them in..just oil them and run them), motors are 380's and quite good. King Tiger needs a few mods to get him running right, mainly the tracks and idler adjustments are the problems there. As you can see, I fight King Tigers (got 3 of them, and the Jagdtiger is a lengthened KT chassis), and I do some mods on them that don't cost too much and are easy.

AAF or Dave4what is your best deal on the kits, and with Tamiya you really can't go wrong. Lots of lads start with Heng Long, and like my best friend in USA now says, if he had only known....he would have started with Tamiya. But, bottom line, the choice is yours. All we can do is give you guidance, and help you either way you choose to go.
Sev

Sev has given you great advice! The Tamiya tanks are hobby grade OTB. HL's are nice starters but honestly will not be anywhere near a Tamiya in quality as an OTB tank. The electronics are twitchy at best and the running gear is inferior in every way to tamiya.
I started with a HL Tiger 1 and have enough money in it now that I could easily have bought 3 Tamiya kits. most of the experimenting with it is where all the money went, trying to get it just right. Now it is quite a tank, but again...it cost a lot to get there.
My Tamiya POershing is pretty much an OTB build with a lot of cosmetic mods to make it specific to the tank I wanted to model from WW2. other than that, it is a great runner and has had zero problems in an way.
There is no end to modifications you can do to either brand. The only difference being HLs need to be modded to be good runners, Tamiyas usually need very little. ETO armor has just about any upgrade you could want for thre Tamiya tanks and rctankwars has HL covered for sure. Between them, you will get to spend countless hours deciding on how you want to build your tank!
Good luck in your decision, and any questions just ask. This is the place to be for rc tankers!

We have these same question about once a month, and as usual I will present the other side of the coin. Tamiya tanks are a good, no doubt about it. You won't be disappointed buying one, but that doesn't mean that is your only choice.

The Heng long Panther is a good tank, as is the Jag D, and there are countless upgrades for these to allow you to really enjoy the hobby as you see fit.

Here is an outfitted Heng Long Pershing with an addtional sound card added.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOpk-O3_vVU[/youtube]

Here is Mato with Heng long running gear.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ExPglbtzrA[/youtube]

Both of these tanks have the addtional gear added to increase the torque and lower the speed.

Because you are knowledgable about RC models and components, there would be very little to intimidate you if you choose to try the lower priced Heng Longs to start. So don't sweat the decision too much. Chances are this will be just one of many purchases. I won't get drawn into another endless Tamiya/HL Debate.

I think the Newer HL's with the RX 18 are virtually trouble free, and either brand will provide you with good value for your dollar.

Since you are already running RC, you may have a lot of the gear a newbie would have to purchase. Just be sure you are running Ground Frequencies or 2.4 GHz!

Tamiya's can run a bit fast, especially the Tiger I. I use gear reduction, but a lot can be taken care of with careful driving. BTW, careful driving seems to go out the window when fighting with theses things

There is a Turnigy Chip that is suppose to slow down throttle response to give your tank the appearance of momentum that a heavy vehicle would have. Just bought one, but have not installed it yet.

Here is a post I did a few years back (from the FAQ section)

Also, check out these site for an idea of what can be done with Tamaiya, Heng Long, Matorro, WSN, or just plain scratch building.

Good luck

http://web.mac.com/ksoc/S.C.A.T./Special_Projects.html

http://www.desertarmor.com/DAK_PROJE..._Projects.html

Thats the one you want if a Tiger I is what your looking for. If you are seeing average prices in the 1000.00 dollar range you are looking in the wrong places.
You cant use what you see on E-Bay as the gospel.
The AAF is the fairest priced seller I know of. There are others that are mentionable for parts and accessories like ETO and WelshDragon Models.
But for a new kit the AAF is the best that I know of. Sevoblast is an expert on Tamiya tanks and can certainly get you on the correct path.

Hi Alan and welcome aboard.

You are going to receiving a zillion responses. Everyone has their own criteria based on the intended use of the tank. My criteria is much like what you are after...realism and accuracy. I am not much into RC battles as I find that generally the tanks in RC battles are operated in a manner that was totally impossible for the particular tank to achieve and outside the realm of realism. Six of my tanks are set up with IR and BDU battle units which I use for combat demos and fun with freinds who are equally interested in realistic operation. I am busy with scale modeling and diorama work with my museum, so am very ciritcal of historic accuracy. At one time I had 36 tanks but sold off most and now have my Israeli and my own Korean War era armor.

Tamiya has the much better electronics but off set by the very high price and they still have their own problems in poorly designed parts like the main gun elevating system. Tamiya tanks you have to assemble 100% unless you find one assembled for sale. Individual parts for Tamiya is also an expensive proposition. Nearly all my tanks have been and are HL with a couple WSN T-34s with electronics converted to newer HL and all run great with a minimal amount of problems. I also have 6 Shermans converted to Israeli models, all using Tamiya, HL and Mato parts. My HL Korea fleet consists of an M-26A1 Pershing, an M-45 and M-46, the latter with expensive El mod. The Pershings are great to work with and do not need metal tracks. The stock tracks are very robust and dependable. All are with late model HL electronics and added sound cards. The Mato Sherman is a good base for modelling but needs better electonics and slower gears. The HL with RX-18 board works great. Like most, the HL and Mato tanks all need some modelling to make them fully accurate. Prices on both the HL and Mato are something one can live with when you procure more....you will NOT have just one .

With HL, the Pershing, Tiger I, Panzer III and M-41 Walker Bulldog are good runners, reliable and nice, especially if you are doing some modelling. I am not familiar with the new KV-1, but have read a lot of good posts. Many conversion kits are available for making other versions or variants, mostly German. 3;1 gears are always an option, but I find my hands can control the speed with no additional cost. Good luck.

Bill

The Heng Long product get progressively better. If you go that route make sure you buy a S&S (smoke and sound) minimum. That SHOULD ensure the 10 step ESC as opposed to the on/of of the earlier tanks. Better yet if it has the RX-18.

The Tiger I was their first tanks so is still possible to find some real electronic dogs out there. The early Panther (Pan-Tiger) was just a Panther inspired upper hull stretched to fit the Tiger I lower hull (look for the Tiger I spare track and incorrect glacis angle at the front of the tank). The later Panther (G??) gets much better reviews.

The HL Tiger I also suffers from numerous scale inaccuracies you did say you were a "scale nut". The main gun in too short (aftermarket barrel). The Pistol Port is upside-down (rotate it). The Turret is the wrong shape (major surgery). A lot of the tools are molded in. Moving or upgrading requires scraping them off and replacing with aftermarket. I sure there is a thread listing all of them and how to rectify them.

Attached are some picts - First is a stock HL Tiger I (S&S) Second is my 5 year old Tamiya Tiger I that is ready for a re-build all the deck items have been removed)

Need more space... here are the Tamiya picts

What do you think of these kits being that they are HL tanks? Notice if you scroll down past the first row of pix and look at the next set of three tanks... (special edition Tiger tanks) Notice their description... I was looking at the one that shows price of 299EU on the left of the page (Weathered) or the other two next to it for something like 189EU and so on. They have the new gears and RX-18 you speak of. Would these be good for playing around the yard? I would install higher output batteries and maybe better motors too with lots more torque.

http://www.tankzone.co.uk/cart/henglong.htm

or picture:
http://www.tankzone.co.uk/images/tam/T1/T1LD.jpg

Notice in the description about the tracks and wheels...

<a href="http://www.tankzone.co.uk/images/tam/T1/T1LD.jpg"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">1/16 Late Production Tiger 1
in Yellow with Zimmerit</font></a><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#666600">
Smoke &amp; Sound System</font></font></font></font></font></font></font><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">
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Full length Metal Gun Barrel</font></font></font></font></font></font></font><font color="#666600">
Realistic Gun Recoil

with </font><font size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="2" face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><font color="#666600"> Metal Sprockets &amp; Idlers</font></font></font></font></font></font></font>,
<font color="#666600">All Metal Roadwheels &amp;
High Grade Metal Tracks</font></font></font></font></font><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">
<font color="#333333">&pound;299.95</font></font></font><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">
</font>




I like the Tamiya tanks very much but I don't think I can buy one of those right now, not sure yet.

Doe's anyone sell these tanks here in the states instead of just Tankzone? I can't imagine the shipping cost from TZ

Buy your tanks stateside from either Phil at RCtankwars. Phil is a one man operation who gives service.

[link=http://rctankwars.com/]RCtankwars[/link]

Or from Mato. Mato is a major distributor with a history of being the best when it comes to the big suppliers. If there is an issue Mato, although not as personalized as Phil will work with you to get a situation resolved if one should arise.

[link=https://matomart.com/login.php?link=account.php]Mato USA[/link]

In my opinion the above two vendors are the only guys to deal with. If you are a gambler you could try one of the other discount sellers, but normally if you get a bad tank or they are damaged in shipping, you tend to be on your own to try and get the problem resolved.

I'm a little confused why you wouldn't be able to purchase a Tamiya Tiger I kit when the cost of what you're looking at is....well, going to cost you roughly the same or more.
<font>&pound;299.95 (GBP) to USD = $486.24
<font color="#333333">&pound;29.20 (GBP) to USD =47.48 for shipping
</font>Total=$533.48

The difference between this tank over a stock Heng Long is that it comes with a the metal hull, metal road wheels, 3:1 motors, and custom paint job (and whether or not you care flash/recoil w/metal barrel.)


If you go Tamiya (as said, you will have a premium tank at hobby grade)
It will have a metal hull or support, metal idler/sprockets, metal suspension, metal gearbox, metal main gun, metal machine gun, tensioners, and an impressive audio and control experience over an RX-18.
It only comes with plastic tracks and plastic road wheels with rubber lining if I'm not mistaken.
$579.00 herehttp://www.rareplastic.com/product_i...roducts_id=266but I would contact Dave personally for a better deal.
$575.00 here<a href="http://www.aaftankmuseum.com/TigerI.htm">http://www.aaftankmuseum.com/TigerI.htm
</a>If you don't have a radio (but I'm sure you do)<a href="http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php/radios-servos/radios/2-4-ghz-aircraft-radios/hobby-people-aero-sport-5-ch-2-4g-radio-tx-rx-comp-w-atx-fhss-1.html">http://www.hobbypeople.net/index.php...tx-fhss-1.html
</a>
Anyway, if I were you. I'd go stock Heng Long first (with variable speed and metal version.) If you end up not really caring much about the hobby, it's less of an investment sitting on the shelf. But then again, if you went Tamiya and ended up not caring for the hobby.....you have a greater chance of getting a return (lots of times, near what you paid for) should you sell it.

As said, Phil at RCtankwars will head you off in the right direction.
Also, another place I have gotten my tanks ishttp://www.raidentech.com/can't beat the freeshipping and low cost. (Code is CJFREESHIPPING)



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Welcome to the forums

Here is a great review/build of the Tamiya Pershing I think you will find interesting.

Really shows Tamiya's level of complexity and why comparing [ under the hood anyway ] HL to Tamiya could be like comparing a Ferrari to a Ford Pinto. A well sorted HL will most likely be just as fun to drive though.

http://www.dansdata.com/pershing.htm

I kinda like his paint job, makes me wonder how Camo flames would look

I have to go back and read most of the thread, as others probably already mentioned the latest HL Pershing is a really good runner right out of the box as is the Panzer III/IV. The metal gears are pretty loud even after break in but the low speed performance is good

YHR beat me to it.

RC Tankwars or Mato USA would have been my two recommendations and for the same reasons.

Phil is a club members. I have bought from both Vendors with no major issues. Got a Sherman and a US 1/2 Track with El Mod system from Phil at RC Tankwars. Phil is good about answering email and followup after the sale.