I'm closing in on a final design on a substitute apple. The prototype has 45 degree and slope defense at distance but takes hits from all sides from about 12-15 feet and closer (these are indoor results).

According to the Tamiya directions, it's supposed to take hits from all directions up to 5 meters,which is inline with my results, but when I test both my TBUs, they only take all direction hits from 10 or less feet. Actually, I wasn't even aware of the close proximity exception until I looked it up when trying to figure this out.

I know Cleong was toying with me with his Panther and the 45 when we were battling it out and I was in pretty close, but that was in brilliant sunshine.

Do you guys depend on 45 defense in close or assume it isn't an option?

I don't rely on the 45 when in close. In such ranges, all you can do is drive the tank with the objective of throwing off the opponent's aim, or staying ahead of his turret traverse or pivot turn. After he's spent his shot, you have his reload time to get out of the 360-lethal range while trying to land your own hit on him.

I assure you though, no toying was going on! What was happening when I was engaging you at the fringe of that 5 meter zone is a tactic that is used quite often whether you're on TFA or standard apples.

- Close down the opponent enough that his turret orientation is not a factor in stopping your shot;
- After firing, back away while tending your turret angle so that he cannot effectively return fire even if he aims accurately;
- Repeat.

You will often see two tanks in one-on-one situations almost do a slow-motion forward-backward dance as each takes a shot and moves back, while the other moves forward to take a shot and pulls back after firing.

The above is an open field situation. When you have more obstacles, those can also buy you time/opportunities. You want to be under cover until you are ready to fire. There's no sense in sitting out in the open unless you have a round chambered and ready for the opponent to pop out. The best thing to do after firing is to (1) scan the tactical situation (2) take cover (3) tend your turret angles.

If ranges continue to close up till we're fencing with our gun barrels, desperate countermeasures including forcing an overshoot are required just to stay alive. Overshoots can be both left-right as well as up-down, depending on the relative heights of tanks, and how quickly each can pivot and turn its turret.

At NEAD and most RC tank clubs the 45 degree is not a big concern. At Danville where the level of competition is higher, this more relevant. I have never really used 45 degree defense and I have no trouble getting kills without it. It is just a matter of personal battle style. I just requires more movement to get a good angle of attack. The battlefield is very fluid and Veteran tankers are more aggressive and attempt breakthroughs. Less experienced tankers snipe and flank to get kills. It is all great fun and we team up veterans with the newbies to make sure they enjoy the battle and live as long as possible. That is why I always recommend a heavy tank for use at Danville is you are new to IR tanking. There is so much cover at Danville that you can always find a good spot to kill from. I can't wait to see you apple Jeff. Fins will prove to be an important feature lacking on many others aside from Impact & DBU apples.

photos???

Thanks guys.





Not yet.

When I have a production example ready, absolutely. After I test out a few baffle thicknesses and openings, I'm increasing the capacitor voltage (and longevity) so I need to shift some things around to fit. I've got the pyramid, IR filters and LED selection done. It mates perfectly with the Tamiya GPS base. I've been popping it off and on all four of mine. Once I finalize the design and start a small run of housings, I'll test it with my fellow NEAD members and put it through the paces.

Designing as close to the Tamiya design parameters will get best response/sales.

My battle experience has been at 10 feet or less, the 45 degree defense goes away.

Be aware slope defense, due to apple orientation fins or top hat is still quite effective at less than 10 feet, so this needs to be simulated as well.

Also the range needs to touch 100 feet to be equivelent to Tamiya (this is repeatable outdoors).

Thanks for the input Eric.

Tamiya states 30 meters and I've heard the 100' claim, but I've never experienced either with any of my TBUs due to physical constraints. The longest distance I've used them indoors is 30 feet and all battles outside have been on uneven terrain, so I can't remember anything longer than about 45'.

I plan on taking both this and a TBU to the local school gym to test range inside and to either the local roller hockey rink or a tennis court to test outside. I took a spare Tamiya DMD/MFU and rigged a 'shooting platform' using a kit supplied emitter tube for consistency since all my tanks have the emitters buried in the mantlets.

In current form, the slope defense kicks in about 25 degrees off horizontal, both up or down, I have yet to test a TBU.

Component-wise, everything meets or exceeds Tamiya (with brighter LEDs) so I don't expect a dropoff in performance. Most efforts have been concentrating on toning down to Tamiya.

That said, this isn't an exact copy of a TBU. I do understand that anything different will face scepticism and scrutiny, so as of now I only plan on making a bunch for myself and NEAD to mess around with.

Jeff wnen I talk of indoor versus outdoor I am speaking in terms of sunlight. Bright sunlight diminishes IR range outdoors. Just test it at night

I'm using filters that eliminate the entire visible light spectrum, but I'll still run tests in overcast or dusk type conditions.

All of my tests some 10 years ago were outdoors on overcast skies and repeatably tagged 100 feet on level test ground.

I'm hoping that using the tennis court or hockey rink will give me the same results. I have a couple of laser pointers on order to make sure I'm on target. I'll have access to an extremely long hallway next Tuesday to test indoor distances.