Tanker 10

It was an easy mod. A little time with the dremel tool and checking the fit is all it took. Glad pedoza posted his results for all to follow if they want a better runner.

TheBennyB

Yea, not sure why any of these tanks or kits come with such low ratios. Most seem to be in the 50-80:1 when they should be in the 80-100:1. Hell, I've got 103:1's in my tammy panther.

Panther G

My Tammy Panther has 88:1's in it and that is a stump puller at that ratio. Could have gone up too 120:1 with this set up.

Tanker 10

Is that the stock Tamiya gear box ratio for the Panther?

TheBennyB

I don't believe so. If I remember correctly Panther G and I(for sure) have custom boxes that Willy converted using Impact boxes hence the different ratio's to order.

Panther G

that is absolutely correct Benny. Not really sure what i would use If i where ever to need to replace them. I'm quit fond of these gear boxes.
I think willy is still working on his new style but i have not seen or heard anything about them in quite some time.

Panther G

I do have three seperate sets of stock Tamiya Panther G gear boxes in three other custom builds I did and they are very good TU's in stock form. Good torque and just only a little too quick to be scale speed but not so much as to disqualify you in a regulated match play. I was actually considering installing a set of these in my new HL Abrams that YHR set up for me but the boxes he modified are working quite well for now so this swap may come up some time down the road.

LukeZ

Sorry, I know this is an old thread, but I'm just wondering whatever happened to the planned Low/Low boxes?

There are photos of both the TAG14015S and TAG14016L on the back of the cardboard box the other V2 gearboxes is packaged in, but I've never seen them for sale anywhere, or heard what came of development. They are both listed as 5:1. I've never heard the "dual ratio" terminology nor sure what that refers too. But they look similar to the now discontinued brass Asiatam low/lows which I really liked.

It appears RCTank.de has something for sale right now that is similar to what Taigen was originally planning, and maybe it is the same thing, but then I'm not sure why Taigen doesn't carry them. RCTank.de calls them the "5:1 Pro steel gearboxes."

philipat

"Dual ratio" refers to the fact that the gear on the drive shaft can be shifted between two gears in the main gear box. As shipped, it's in the 5:1 ratio. Shift the drive gear towards the sprocket and it's in a 3:1 ratio, essentially bypassing the last gear reduction.

RCTank.de has what I would call an interim solution. Erik's plans had called for them to come with bearings on the gear shafts. I think the rctank.de version has bushings. But, they are basically the brass low/lows (which I also like a lot) in steel...like V2, or something.

Crius

The "Dual Ratio" moniker is what Erik came up with to try to give a little more accurate description of the product. All these places that are selling "3:1" and "4:1" are totally inaccurate. Those ratios are nowhere even close to accurate, and the way I heard it, the "3:1" term came about because the first aftermarket GBs were 3 times the speed of a Tamiya, so that's why they started using "3:1". Dan and I tried to get everyone to call them "3 shaft" and "4 shaft" GBs, referring to the number of reduction shafts in each box, but that never really caught on, even though it would be MUCH more accurate.

As for the Dual Ratio, that came about when Erik coined the term after having me machine a couple of shafts so you could do a "quick change" by sliding the axle gear back and forth, just as Philip said (without machining the shaft you'd have to take the axle gear off and turn it around to get the second ratio). Dual ratio is much more accurate then "5:1".

As for the Taigen dual ratio boxes, they're basically the same as the old brass gearboxes, but with steel gears, and that caused a problem. It takes a lot more power to turn the steel gears than it did the brass, and that's why they haven't been released by Imex yet, Erik is still trying to get the right motors to make the steel perform as well as the brass did. Personally, I'd really, really love to see them bring back the brass gears. I've never heard of anyone suffering a failure because the gears are brass and not steel, and the brass also runs MUCH more quietly than the steel. I've tried to convince Erik to get them to do a small run of brass gears for those of us that prefer them, and I really believe a couple hundred sets of the brass GBs would sell out quickly. I'd take ten sets (at least) if they did another run, so maybe if enough of us contact Erik and commit to buy a set or two (or 12) that might help to get them made? Otherwise I just keep my eyes out for the rare set of brass that comes up for sale and I scoop them up whenever I can.

So if anyone has any brass gearboxes they want to part with, I'm most definitely interested.

One thing I will say about the dual ratio steel gears, they work pretty well in a light tank like a Stug III or a Panzer III. I have the brass in my Stug and just put steel in the P3 and they both perform well. However, when I tried the steel dual ratios in a Torro King Tiger it burned up the MFU!

pedzola

I ordered a couple of the "5:1" versions a year or so ago from rctank.de. For me there was no appreciable difference in speed or torque from the "3:1's".

I checked the final drive ratios and discovered they are 46:1 vs 39:1 for the "3:1" gearboxes. They also have smaller motors (less torque) with higher rpm.

So in my opinion the only benefit over 3:1 boxes is if you need lower profile or perhaps if you switched to the faster gear position (i only checked in "5:1" mode) then they may be the fastest boxes out there if thst is what you are going for.

5:1 is really a misnomer as it leads you to believe it has a better gear ratio than the "4:1's", but the 4:1 boxes from taigen are actually about a 90:1 ratio.

pedzola

I would also note that the main reason i bought the 5:1 was for a jagdpanther, which doesnt have clearance for the 4:1's. It seems rctank.de now had an adapter set that allows you to offset the higher motor so the 4:1 boxes can now fit in the JP chassis.

In my opinion there needs to be a set that is around 60:1 to replace the 3:1 boxes for faster tanks, keep the 90:1 for medium tanks, and come up with a 110+ for the jagdtiger, king tiger, other large tanks. Matched with the right motors of course.

Crius

For me the main advantages to the dual ratio are, 1) the low profile (4 shaft boxes can't be used in a Jagdpanther), and 2) the noise level. The brass gears are just so much quieter. (Is that even a word, quieter? )

philipat

Brass is much quieter (yep...that's a word).

I used the brass low/lows // 5:1s // dual-ratio...whatever...in my PzIII with the metal hull and running gear. The smaller motors weren't cutting it. But, with Speed400s, I got scale speed with excellent torque for climbing hills or crawling through the lawn (before mowing it). Unfortunately, the PzIV is narrower than the PzIII and these gearboxes with Speed400s don't fit.

Afrikakorps

Guys you are definitely right about the speed an torque of the metal 5:1's.
I put them in a Taigen/Torro Metal upgraded KV-2 and found the speed was too fast and the lack of torque meat that the tank would not climb hills or even turn on carpet.
I would only recommend them for a light/medium tank that needs low/low gearboxes because of space and height restrictions.
P.S
I finally fixed the heavy KV-2 by "just" managing to fit Taigen 4:1's in. No room for a smoke unit now.
Cheers
Afrikakorps

LukeZ

Thanks guys for all this info and historical perspective. I have the old Asiatam brass low/low in my Pz III with Speed 400s (same as philipat) and I really like them, but I admit I had assumed they were much higher ratio than the 3:1 and what I really like is slow speed. Pedzolla's findings on the actual ratios is enlightening. Nevertheless they work well and I was thinking of doing a second Pz III and wondered about getting another set.

I agree with everyone that upgrading the gears to steel in these boxes is unnecessary and probably a step in the wrong direction. The brass is indeed quieter and in the small models these would typically be used in not an issue for strength. The place where strength is needed is the sidewalls and these had very beefy case construction, much more sturdy than the thin sheet metal used even still today on the V2s. The fact they lacked ball bearings did not bother me (except for the final drive) since the whole trend of putting bearings on shafts that don't even turn is beyond silly.

Although really only ideal for a few models there were several things these old gearboxes got right and I wouldn't mind another set.

On the topic of gearboxes generally, it seems to me there is a very big gap still today between the ultimately unsatisfying boxes all derived from the original Heng Long design, and high end options like the DKLM PDSGB or ETO versions. The latter are terrific and wonderful but really out of the price range of most, and even if you can afford one you are not likely to put them in a whole fleet of models. The holy grail that remains elusive are designs that are slow, powerful, whisper quiet, and affordable.

philipat

That would be sweet!

Crius

If you are able to find another set of brass dual ratio, grab them and don't let them go.

I've been trying to tell Erik all along that you don't need steel in the dual ratio, the brass works fine, has plenty of strength and durability, and is considerably quieter. Maybe he'll listen to you, so I certainly hope you'll discuss this with him. As I stated earlier, I've been trying to convince Imex to do another run of the brass gearboxes, just for those of us that love them so. I really think that a run of somewhere between 200 and 500 brass dual ratio gearbox pairs would sell quickly. I wasn't kidding when I said I'd take ten sets all by myself.

Rad_Schuhart

What I would like to see is something like the Dklm gearboxes but with affordabe prices.

I have a lot of different tanks, motors, gearboxes and electronics and my tanks never drives straight unless I trim it. It seems that having oke motor for going straight and another for turning is the only way to go.

Imex-Erik

This is pretty much spot on. The brass was ok, but it did wear a lot faster than the steel. While we were upgrading the 3:1 and 4:1 gearboxes we looked into these as well. They were never meant to push a heavy tank and with the 360 motors it really showed. The "5:1" gearbox as it was called can in fact be ran at two ratios, and with a small mod can be made to swap ratios on the fly between a fast and slow speed. The problem was sourcing a 360/380 motor with the torque to get the tank to drive a metal tank (as more and more of our models are becoming) in both ratios. It was found the upgraded 3:1 with ball bearings did a better job once the new motors were installed and we decided not to go further with the advancement of this gearbox. There are a few places in the EU where you can get the gearboxes still, but I wouldn't choose them over even the 3:1 due to the changes made to both of them. The 5:1 now has steel gears which are heavier than the older brass ones and still running the same motor. It also runs on bushings and not bearings so there is no additional benefit from that either. The actual ratio for the 5:1 is pretty weak as well. The 3:1, 4:1, and 5:1 monikers were used by the factories to show how many reduction gears are used, unfortunately the actual ratio is not reflected correctly this way. Here are the actual ratios for the gearboxes I've found:
3:1 - 39:1
4:1 - 90:1
5:1 - 8:1 & 46:1

So if you compare the 3:1 and the 5:1 and add the fact the 3:1 has the larger 380 motor with much more torque it doesn't make too much sense to produce the 5:1 much IMO. This may change in the future, I'll speak with the factory when I visit later this year and see what they think as well but IMO I would rather thin the heard out a bit and focus on newer ones if I had a choice
How about some 380 motors with a RPM increase from 18k to 25k? This should be a good match for your 3:1s New listing for them coming soon on the Taigen site this week.
I'll see what I can do, personally I would rather invest in new stuff than reruns of the older stuff. Taigen has a lot on the plate this year and I have to pick and choose battles wisely. IMO I think they are nice, but I think a motor 390 motor on a 3:1 will do you much better if you can fit it.

I'm sorry I was completely absent over the weekend, it was my 10 year anniversary and we went out to Tampa for the weekend and had some fun down there. I'll get those 390 motors up soon for you guys and of course link it here first

maillemaker

After less than a year, the metal transmission in my stock Heng Long Jagdpanther has bit the dust.

What would be a good Imex replacement transmission?

Thanks,
Steve

Imex-Erik

Well you are pretty much stuck to the same configuration of Mid/Low for the gearboxes, with 58mm shafts. I would suggest our TAG14006L gearboxes HERE. If you will wait until later in the day I'll have some 390 motors posted as well to match up with them. The 390 motors will come with the pinions already installed and placed to match up with the 3:1 gearboxes though you may need to move the pinion just a hair to match yours.

maillemaker

Hi Erik,

Are they available to buy with the 390 motors installed or is this something extra to buy in addition to the gearbox? It looks like the gearboxes come with motors?

Steve

Imex-Erik

Ok so I've loaded the 390 motors + gearboxes, they are a limited time offer as of now, I'm not sure how long we will run them in this format. The motors are coming for sure, but I have a limited supply at the moment. You can get either the motors or motors installed in one of our gearboxes (3:1). Please let me know if you have any questions, you can find the listing here: http://www.taigentanks.com/taigen-tank-parts/390motors

maillemaker

OK I've made my first Imex order! I ordered 2 gearboxes and 2 smokers for 2 stock Heng Long Jagdpanthers. One has metal tracks and drive/idler wheels and the other is all plastic.

Steve