Pro's and Con's
09-15-2016, 09:48 AM
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Pro's and Con's
Hey all! I'm brand new to RC tanks but me and some friends are preparing to take the plunge into the RC tank world. I was wondering what manufacturers you all would recommend for RTR tanks? So far we've all been looking at Taigen, Mato, and Heng Long.
Certainly like the Mato's and Taigen's for the metal parts but how are they as far as aftermarket upgrades? (Motherboards, smoke generators, etc.)
Thanks in advance!
Certainly like the Mato's and Taigen's for the metal parts but how are they as far as aftermarket upgrades? (Motherboards, smoke generators, etc.)
Thanks in advance!
09-15-2016, 10:22 AM
#2
First question is what do you want from them? People will come along and tell you their favourite brand is better, but its all down to what you want your tank to do:
Detailed shelf queen?
IR battler?
Suitable for shooting videos - i.e. where more weight is advantageous to make the tank move over the ground more realistically?
Where do you want to use it?
Indoors?
on short grass / smooth dirt?
thru muddy puddles or long grass?
'drive it like you stole it' through whatever you feel like?
Your answers will influence what the best tank for your enjoyment of the hobby.
In terms of what is out there, Heng Long and Tamiya are the two extremes (at least out of the tanks worth buying - there are others but all the brands you mentioned are 1/16 and not cheap crap so I'll stick with those criteria here
)
If I were to make gross generalisations:
Heng Long - Ready to run, cheap to buy, not so robust but plenty of cheap parts, not such great or accurate scale models, but their newer offerings are much improved over the older ones like the Tiger 1.
Tamiya - Comes as a complete Kit (unless you buy a second hand one), expensive to buy (again unless second hand), relatively robust so long as you aren't silly with them, expensive parts (so beware of second hand ones that don't look like they are in good shape!), accurate scale models that will please all but the most hardcore builder more or less straight out of the box.
Mato and Taigen sit between the 2. Some of their products have common parts with HL so spares are generally cheaper, but the out of the box finish is generally better also. Be aware that some of the Taigens like the M41 and M26 are little more than Heng Longs with a nice paint job, and if your plan is to fit after market electronics and paint the tank yourself (for example) you might be better off just buying the HL version and pocketing the change.
As I said, we all have different priorities here: some need a tank that is good at playing laser tag, some like a nice model that occasionally moves, some like a hefty beast that looks good in pictures and video, and some want the best off-road tank that money can buy - No one tank on the market can do all of that without getting prohibitively expensive for most people
Detailed shelf queen?
IR battler?
Suitable for shooting videos - i.e. where more weight is advantageous to make the tank move over the ground more realistically?
Where do you want to use it?
Indoors?
on short grass / smooth dirt?
thru muddy puddles or long grass?
'drive it like you stole it' through whatever you feel like?
Your answers will influence what the best tank for your enjoyment of the hobby.
In terms of what is out there, Heng Long and Tamiya are the two extremes (at least out of the tanks worth buying - there are others but all the brands you mentioned are 1/16 and not cheap crap so I'll stick with those criteria here
)If I were to make gross generalisations:
Heng Long - Ready to run, cheap to buy, not so robust but plenty of cheap parts, not such great or accurate scale models, but their newer offerings are much improved over the older ones like the Tiger 1.
Tamiya - Comes as a complete Kit (unless you buy a second hand one), expensive to buy (again unless second hand), relatively robust so long as you aren't silly with them, expensive parts (so beware of second hand ones that don't look like they are in good shape!), accurate scale models that will please all but the most hardcore builder more or less straight out of the box.
Mato and Taigen sit between the 2. Some of their products have common parts with HL so spares are generally cheaper, but the out of the box finish is generally better also. Be aware that some of the Taigens like the M41 and M26 are little more than Heng Longs with a nice paint job, and if your plan is to fit after market electronics and paint the tank yourself (for example) you might be better off just buying the HL version and pocketing the change.
As I said, we all have different priorities here: some need a tank that is good at playing laser tag, some like a nice model that occasionally moves, some like a hefty beast that looks good in pictures and video, and some want the best off-road tank that money can buy - No one tank on the market can do all of that without getting prohibitively expensive for most people
09-15-2016, 10:34 AM
#4
(aftermarket electronics are available to retrofit any tank for IR battle, if that is your priority - even the Tamiya tanks require extra bits for IR battle)
09-15-2016, 10:41 AM
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Tamiya is pretty straight forward though, heng long takes a bit of fiddling to convert from airsoft, i had to for my heng long tiger i remember.
09-15-2016, 10:56 AM
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Sorry i realize how general my question was. What I'm looking for in a new RC tank is really a combination of all that you mentioned Pat. We are looking to do the IR battles a little at an outdoor RC car track/range. That location being said, it will get a little muddy and fairly dirty so I was assuming the metal tanks would be best for this. Also one of the people buying a tank is an amateur videographer so I can assume he will be filming away with the tanks so I'd like to have a heavier tank for the more realistic movement aspect. The metal stood out in my mind as they seem a more robust or reliable combination but I'll defer to everyone's expertise on the matter.
From a budget perspective, I'd like to stay around $500-$600 for an initial investment and then upgrade in the future as I go. I've been warned that when the RC bug bites, it bites hard.
From a budget perspective, I'd like to stay around $500-$600 for an initial investment and then upgrade in the future as I go. I've been warned that when the RC bug bites, it bites hard.
09-15-2016, 11:23 AM
#7
I'd look at the Taigen, Their customer service is fantastic and they visit this forum regularly. Also just my opinion, but all metal is over rated. It IS key to have metal at certain points such as the drivetrain, sprocets, idlers, gearbox mounts. This rest
is just not necessary and adds more work for the gearboxes and running gear to deal with especially metal tracks. It's also harder to model if you ever want to change the exterior look down the road. If you find a tank you like and it happens to be all metal, by all means grab it. Just don't think it has to be all metal to mechanically dependable. Where are you located? There may be someone local for you to meet up with.
is just not necessary and adds more work for the gearboxes and running gear to deal with especially metal tracks. It's also harder to model if you ever want to change the exterior look down the road. If you find a tank you like and it happens to be all metal, by all means grab it. Just don't think it has to be all metal to mechanically dependable. Where are you located? There may be someone local for you to meet up with.
09-15-2016, 11:58 AM
#9
5 to 600 and in an RTR, I'd go with Taigen. It'll be new and customer support (and they are members here) is good.
A used Tamiya could be found in that range also.
It ALL DEPENDS on what tank you really want. Both Tamiya and Taigen have models neither have BUT both have similar tanks as well.
I've never owned a Taigen (but will shortly as I have all the other brands discussed about) but it seems to get VERY HIGH marks and plan on working on whatever brand you DO decide on getting as things happen.
Jeff
09-15-2016, 11:59 AM
#10
Ok that helps 
All metal is a double edged sword for IR. (disclaimer - I don't have Taigen, I can only speak for Tamiya and its clones). As your tank takes more and more hits it starts to slow down - the heavier your tank, the more (and quicker) you will start to become immobile as those hits mount. You can go for bigger motors and more reduction in your gearboxes to overcome this, but you get this at the expense of speed. You might stay more mobile after 5 or 6 hits, but you'll take more hits because you won't be as mobile. There is also the issue of all that weight putting stress on your gearboxes and electronics - some gearboxes out there handle it better than others, but generally if you are battling you are going to end up driving it like you stole it, and really good gearboxes cost really good money...
$500 - $600 should get you a 2nd hand Tamiya, with enough change to buy the add on IR option set with the emitter and receiver tower (aka the 'apple'). This would require all of your friends to do the same, or buy other brands and upgrade them, in order to battle. (on the plus side, you would be compatible with pretty much any one else in the hobby who battles - not sure where you live, this might not be important). This will have a metal chassis, generally metal in the suspension arms, Brass gears in the gearbox, but a plastic upper, wheels (rubber or metal rims where appropriate) and tracks (with metal sprockets)
$500 - $600 should comfortably get you a Taigen of your choice. The cheaper ones (M41 and M26) only offer the IR battle ability (only with other Taigens) over the Heng Long equivalents, but the rest I think have chassis similar to Tamiya and should be available with black steel gears if you go to the right vendors (beware the cheap pot metal grey coloured gears, they won't last long for rough driving and battle). I'll let others fill in the blanks, I don't have any in my collection...
$500 - $600 should be enough to buy a Heng Long, a replacement set of the Taigen black steel gearboxes, and an aftermarket set of electronics such as El-Mod (for example), plus a 2.4GHz radio of your choice - ebay the original radio and electronics for pocket money.
$500 - $600 for the full metal Mato might work if you can get radio and electronics included for that budget - I've not looked at them that closely. I would however be leary of trying to battle a full metal tank without breaking the gearboxes under the conditions you describe - those brass Mato ones certainly haven't worked out for me in similar.
None of them are necessarily the right or wrong answer:
If you want Tamiya IR battle compatability, then I'd suggest either the HL or Tamiya (but not the really old Sherman, only buy the "full option" versions!) in order to stay with in budget, Taigen would require you to look at specific models and costs to see if the budget still works - some will, some won't.
If you want to battle and everyone accepts Taigen, then they are on the table - they will not talk to the Tamiya compatible systems tho, and even if you can get electronics to translate the signals they still won't slow down when your tank starts taking hits (that gets old quickly when one guy is running rings around everyone else because his tank is different!).
In terms of ease of getting the tanks 'talking Tamiya', the HL and Taigen will take a bit of opening up and modding to fit the electronics and IR system, the Tamiya should already have the niceties like recoil and a muzzle flash unit (but you will have to bust it open to fit the IR battlegear if its not already there). If you can live without recoil, then its a darn sight easier to shove a flash LED (or Taigen unit) up the BB barrel and plug it into the aftermarket board of your choice.
Electronic control modules are plentiful, and I'm sure their fanboys (and vendors) will be along to tell you how theirs is the best
I personally prefer Tamiya and El-Mod, other brands include Clark and IBU3. They all pretty much work the same way, its all about personal preference (driving experience, installation / reliability, and price that you are willing to pay for those) and which brand's vendor is more local / reponsive to your needs.
Enough typing from me - I hope I've been of some help, and opened your eyes to the idea that there is no right or wrong answer - its all personal preference about what you want to do, where you want to spend your money (electronics, gearboxes, appearance, etc.), and how much you want to spend in one go (buy it all now, or one piece at a time).
All metal is a double edged sword for IR. (disclaimer - I don't have Taigen, I can only speak for Tamiya and its clones). As your tank takes more and more hits it starts to slow down - the heavier your tank, the more (and quicker) you will start to become immobile as those hits mount. You can go for bigger motors and more reduction in your gearboxes to overcome this, but you get this at the expense of speed. You might stay more mobile after 5 or 6 hits, but you'll take more hits because you won't be as mobile. There is also the issue of all that weight putting stress on your gearboxes and electronics - some gearboxes out there handle it better than others, but generally if you are battling you are going to end up driving it like you stole it, and really good gearboxes cost really good money...
$500 - $600 should get you a 2nd hand Tamiya, with enough change to buy the add on IR option set with the emitter and receiver tower (aka the 'apple'). This would require all of your friends to do the same, or buy other brands and upgrade them, in order to battle. (on the plus side, you would be compatible with pretty much any one else in the hobby who battles - not sure where you live, this might not be important). This will have a metal chassis, generally metal in the suspension arms, Brass gears in the gearbox, but a plastic upper, wheels (rubber or metal rims where appropriate) and tracks (with metal sprockets)
$500 - $600 should comfortably get you a Taigen of your choice. The cheaper ones (M41 and M26) only offer the IR battle ability (only with other Taigens) over the Heng Long equivalents, but the rest I think have chassis similar to Tamiya and should be available with black steel gears if you go to the right vendors (beware the cheap pot metal grey coloured gears, they won't last long for rough driving and battle). I'll let others fill in the blanks, I don't have any in my collection...
$500 - $600 should be enough to buy a Heng Long, a replacement set of the Taigen black steel gearboxes, and an aftermarket set of electronics such as El-Mod (for example), plus a 2.4GHz radio of your choice - ebay the original radio and electronics for pocket money.
$500 - $600 for the full metal Mato might work if you can get radio and electronics included for that budget - I've not looked at them that closely. I would however be leary of trying to battle a full metal tank without breaking the gearboxes under the conditions you describe - those brass Mato ones certainly haven't worked out for me in similar.
None of them are necessarily the right or wrong answer:
If you want Tamiya IR battle compatability, then I'd suggest either the HL or Tamiya (but not the really old Sherman, only buy the "full option" versions!) in order to stay with in budget, Taigen would require you to look at specific models and costs to see if the budget still works - some will, some won't.
If you want to battle and everyone accepts Taigen, then they are on the table - they will not talk to the Tamiya compatible systems tho, and even if you can get electronics to translate the signals they still won't slow down when your tank starts taking hits (that gets old quickly when one guy is running rings around everyone else because his tank is different!).
In terms of ease of getting the tanks 'talking Tamiya', the HL and Taigen will take a bit of opening up and modding to fit the electronics and IR system, the Tamiya should already have the niceties like recoil and a muzzle flash unit (but you will have to bust it open to fit the IR battlegear if its not already there). If you can live without recoil, then its a darn sight easier to shove a flash LED (or Taigen unit) up the BB barrel and plug it into the aftermarket board of your choice.
Electronic control modules are plentiful, and I'm sure their fanboys (and vendors) will be along to tell you how theirs is the best
I personally prefer Tamiya and El-Mod, other brands include Clark and IBU3. They all pretty much work the same way, its all about personal preference (driving experience, installation / reliability, and price that you are willing to pay for those) and which brand's vendor is more local / reponsive to your needs.
Enough typing from me - I hope I've been of some help, and opened your eyes to the idea that there is no right or wrong answer - its all personal preference about what you want to do, where you want to spend your money (electronics, gearboxes, appearance, etc.), and how much you want to spend in one go (buy it all now, or one piece at a time).
09-15-2016, 12:01 PM
#11
Assuming you want to eventually become Tamiya compatible, you can't go wrong with the Imex Model Company in Florida. Taigen and Torro tanks in IR that you can use with the stock system to start and then later get into new boards and Tamiya compatibility.
Another way to go may be this ... since there are several of you, get the lowest price all plastic Taigen or torro tanks you can right now and have fun playing around with the stock system. Just go straight out of the box and get to blazin' at one another. Then you each get the heavier, more expensive tanks and concentrate on making those Tamiya compatible. That way you all get to play right away and you can take your time making the switch to more sophisticated stuff.
And if you guys get together and order several tanks at once you'll be surprised how well Imex will be able to do for you.
Another way to go may be this ... since there are several of you, get the lowest price all plastic Taigen or torro tanks you can right now and have fun playing around with the stock system. Just go straight out of the box and get to blazin' at one another. Then you each get the heavier, more expensive tanks and concentrate on making those Tamiya compatible. That way you all get to play right away and you can take your time making the switch to more sophisticated stuff.
And if you guys get together and order several tanks at once you'll be surprised how well Imex will be able to do for you.
09-15-2016, 12:03 PM
#12
Sorry i realize how general my question was. What I'm looking for in a new RC tank is really a combination of all that you mentioned Pat. We are looking to do the IR battles a little at an outdoor RC car track/range. That location being said, it will get a little muddy and fairly dirty so I was assuming the metal tanks would be best for this. Also one of the people buying a tank is an amateur videographer so I can assume he will be filming away with the tanks so I'd like to have a heavier tank for the more realistic movement aspect. The metal stood out in my mind as they seem a more robust or reliable combination but I'll defer to everyone's expertise on the matter.
From a budget perspective, I'd like to stay around $500-$600 for an initial investment and then upgrade in the future as I go. I've been warned that when the RC bug bites, it bites hard.
From a budget perspective, I'd like to stay around $500-$600 for an initial investment and then upgrade in the future as I go. I've been warned that when the RC bug bites, it bites hard.
09-15-2016, 12:15 PM
#13
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As it sits right now my group is a solid 3 drivers with potentially 3 or 4 additional. I'm the only one new to the RC world. They are experienced with RC planes, cars, and boats with a little experience with robotics. The product of nerdy kids who've grown up and hit their 30's .
09-15-2016, 12:28 PM
#14
As a beginner as well, the main upgrade you will need to have if you plan on running offroad and non-smooth surfaces, is a gearbox with some metal gears (even the zinc is better than the plastic). Plastic tracks are dirt cheap, but keep your tank light. Realism equals metal for tracks and such for decent "sag" effects, You'll want metal tracks and sprockets/idlers for that as well. One of the best I've seen is Taigen's KV-1 metal lower.
Heavier = higher levels of stress
Heavier = higher levels of stress
09-15-2016, 12:39 PM
#15
Cant do better than a Tamiya kit tank, next best is a Taigen.
I would stay away from the Mato all metal tanks. I have had them and have a low opinion of the product in many aspects.
henglongs are toys, all plastic and while can be made to look very good, and run good with upgrades, the plastic chassis is the drawback.
I would stay away from the Mato all metal tanks. I have had them and have a low opinion of the product in many aspects.
henglongs are toys, all plastic and while can be made to look very good, and run good with upgrades, the plastic chassis is the drawback.
09-15-2016, 01:09 PM
#17
Thanks for the kind words guys! Ok so I'm not going to comment on brand vs brand, I think honestly these guys on the forum can explain just as good if not better than myself and most aren't biased. I will however comment on the IR side of things and my preferences...
I like a metal chassis tank personally but with as much plastic as possible except for the gearboxes. For the gearboxes I only run our new steel variants (and yes, they will fit on some other models just in case you need to upgrade another brand, though Tamiya is a bit more work than others) and for the drivetrain I run metal sprockets and idlers. The tracks and road wheels I keep plastic to save on weight. This is going to be your best bet for a PURE infrared battle tank and I'm sure most here will agree with the general setup no matter what brand it is.
I do occasionally run my metal edition tanks for battle and my Tiger 1 is over 20lbs and has larger motors, aftermarket control board, and as much metal as I can slap on it. It is also very customized on the inside and looks nothing like most other tanks internally, but to each his own. The lighter the tank the quicker the response you will get but this is also heavily dependent on your motors/drivetrain/motherboard as well. With enough power or something like a Sabertooth then 20lbs is nothing to push.
We do have a Tiger 1 kit as well if you like to build, it can save you a decent amount of money while providing you with the knowledge of the model itself while not killing the wallet (or making the wife/gf hate your hobby from the start). This gives you the option to run whatever electronics you like whether it be ours or something like the IBU or Clark boards. If you are a RTR type of guy then as stated above there are lots of options from multiple brands in multiple price levels. Either way you go you will most always have plenty of support from this forum as there are a lot of seasoned tankers here with many years of experience.
I like a metal chassis tank personally but with as much plastic as possible except for the gearboxes. For the gearboxes I only run our new steel variants (and yes, they will fit on some other models just in case you need to upgrade another brand, though Tamiya is a bit more work than others) and for the drivetrain I run metal sprockets and idlers. The tracks and road wheels I keep plastic to save on weight. This is going to be your best bet for a PURE infrared battle tank and I'm sure most here will agree with the general setup no matter what brand it is.
I do occasionally run my metal edition tanks for battle and my Tiger 1 is over 20lbs and has larger motors, aftermarket control board, and as much metal as I can slap on it. It is also very customized on the inside and looks nothing like most other tanks internally, but to each his own. The lighter the tank the quicker the response you will get but this is also heavily dependent on your motors/drivetrain/motherboard as well. With enough power or something like a Sabertooth then 20lbs is nothing to push.
We do have a Tiger 1 kit as well if you like to build, it can save you a decent amount of money while providing you with the knowledge of the model itself while not killing the wallet (or making the wife/gf hate your hobby from the start). This gives you the option to run whatever electronics you like whether it be ours or something like the IBU or Clark boards. If you are a RTR type of guy then as stated above there are lots of options from multiple brands in multiple price levels. Either way you go you will most always have plenty of support from this forum as there are a lot of seasoned tankers here with many years of experience.
09-15-2016, 02:06 PM
#19
Almost all our members who have upgraded their HL's have added resin floors or stiffening braces across the lower hulls (or both) to reduce the flex and resulting misalignment of running gear.
