Hi. I've seen that a lot of people have installed gearbox braces in the tamiya tanks. Are they really needed? I have a sherman and a King tiger which one day I hope to install metal tracks.

You're going to get a host of opinions on this.

Mine is simple, Tamiya is expensive, but you get an extremely well engineered tank for your money. I run all mine completely OOB stock and with tanks that have been abused beyond anything a plastic model should endure, I have yet to have an issue with any of it in terms of design.

That said, you want to start doing things like adding metal tracks (completely unnecessary in my opinion), or add weight to increase ground pressure, yadda yadda yadda then you've gone beyond what it was designed for.

Go down that road, you should expect to pay for it. Bigger motors, gearboxes, bearings, springs, braces, stronger batteries, etc.

Perfect example of this is metal barrels. No elevation arm had any problem when the barrels in the kits were styrene. But Tamiya caved to the AM market catering to people who can't fix a seam, so they added aluminum barrels to their kits. So now the ABS elev arm rounds out under the weight as well as now you need an etching primer. Change the arm and when stressed, a nylon gear will round out. Change the gears and the motors is under stress at the limit. Add micro switches to stop the limits and look at where we are, back to what the tank was before we added a metal barrel.

Jeff said it all there.

One would question why you really need metal tracks then? Those gearbox braces are not too expensive and if you're buying metal tracks, why stop there?

As long as we're talking about the plates that go under the gearbox right, and not this modification:

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Hi. I dont need metal tracks for my Sherman. They are pretty robust and I dont think I will need to replace them for decades. (But running over concrete is like sinking the tracks in acid...)
But the king tiger is a complete diferent story. The tracks are poorly designed, the pins are open and are conected just with a couple of plastic milímeters at each side of the track. A lot of people breaks the tamiya king tiger tracks at the first run.

So far I have only run my King Tiger inside home, but Im sure the first time I run it in the garden over grass or mud I will break the tracks.

But ausf you are right about what happens with the upgrades... I know that If I install metal tracks on my King tiger, I will need to replace the track tensioner, adding a gearbox brace and maybe bearings in the shafts... And then I might have another kind of problems, lol.

So it seems you can never reach the perfection... Im not sure what to do, but I dont want to have a shelf queen acumilating dust for years.

My first 2 Tamiya rc tank kit builds, done almost 14 years ago now, were built carefully out of the box and worked good. That is until I compared my builds to the running performance of similar Tamiya rc tanks at the local rc tank club.


What I quickly discovered is that if your aspirations are to join in on IR RC tank club fighting, in that type of setting, you will probably need some if not all the standard modifications to be competitive and have trouble free battle day fun. FYI, that is why the various parts were developed after all over the last decade and a half.

Unless your model is a show piece and you want more accurate looking metal tracks for presentation, I would not recommend metal tracks for IR fighting and or running around on your wife’s carpets and floors for that matter.


The case for upgrades:

1. My Pershing’s plastic elevation arm failed after about a year of gentle use and was replaced with a Daryl Turner metal elevation arm. I probably broke the plastic part by locking down the main gun, my bad and a not so gentle use. The metal elevation arm does not fail.
2. The Tiger IE worked great for 3 years and then both the barrel recoil arm and the plastic elevation arm failed and was replaced with ETO Armor parts. I added a metal barrel at that time, because the Tiger IE kit's barrel is/was to short and the replacement metal barrel is accurate in length. The swap out had nothing to do with filling plastic barrel seems. The barrel is the heart of a model tank and for sure that is the one thing you want right. The correct length metal barrel just looks better on the Tamiya Tiger IE.
3. The Tamiya King Tiger kit's idler setup simply does not work very well. That is why better alternatives are offered. The stock KT hull does flex and distort running hard on outdoor terrain and will throw its tracks. That is why you spec a gearbox mount brace to keep things aligned and your tracks on. My KT kit’s plastic barrel was replaced with a better looking scale metal barrel.
4. Both the Tiger and KT are kinda to fast built out of the box, so for that reason gear reduction is often used on the Tamiya Gearboxes along with 400 motors or larger motors to help keep you moving after 7 or 8 IR hits.
5. Several years ago I built my Tamiya Panther G without road wheel bearings and my Tamiya Jagdpanther with road wheel bearings. The Jagdpanther was a noticeably better and smoother runner, but I am not sure if that fact really translates in to any meaningful performance advantage in an IR fight
6, With my Sherman 105mm, I built it stock and a couple of years later significantly improved its out door terrain running ability by adding aftermarket Impact Idlers, rear side hull braces, metal elevation arm, a gear box mount brace and 400 motors. The tank could now climb outdoor inclines, run through grass and still move when being clobbered by Axis heavy panzers hits.

In conclusion, the various upgrades make a well built Tamiya rc tank kit that much better and way more fun to drive over outdoor terrain.

John

Thanks for sharing your experience, Pcomm. Nice photos by the way.

What you share is what I've read a lot of times and what I experience myself. Some upgrades are definitelly needed. For example my king tiger track tensioner does not work very good even with plastic tracks... About the hull flex, I have not experienced it yet (or at least I have no noticed it) but a lot of people talks about it, so yeah, a gearbox brace might be needed too.

Of course I have also seen the oposite opinion. "I built my tanks 25 years ago and never had a problem" but usually when I met those people, they never want to run outside home (not even over carpet!) or even I have seen people that wont move the turret or barrel because they dont want to break it. Of course that people did not have any problem in 25 years using the tank like that.

Unfortunatelly I have no tank club in thousands of kilometers around, but I love to drive the tanks with my sons in the garden and I need some reliability.


Uh, I almost forgot it, I saw you installed the impact idler in your sherman. Well, I need that too. My sherman idler wheel is worn, I must say, Ausf, that the tamiya kits are not that extremelly well designed... I still cant believe that the sherman idler wheel is the only one that comes with the plain plastic wheel over the metal axle. So after some time runing, the wheel wears. Happened to many people and unfortunatelly happened to me too.

BTW, not to sound like I am defending Tamiya but their 1/16 Sherman started out as a computerized toy back in 1974 and wasn't designed for REAL R/C action like their following kits are. So what, you have to replace a $40 part? Tamiya felt it was good enough for awhile and several members here haven't replaced theirs yet!

Pretty much all of us have done it and the IMPACT part does work despite what you've read.

My thoughts exactly since I'm in the camp of long time, no change. My tanks aren't shelf queens, they are battle hardnened in muck, gravel, grass and ditches. My oft repeated Tiger story persists, in a battle my son went too close to the edge, barrel rolled it down a set of concrete steps where it landed on it's tracks and continued to battle.

The Tiger I and M4 were training tanks for my sons and all their friends and the only issue was I needed to replace a gearbox bearing after one kid hit the throttle while the other was carrying it and it dropped onto pavement. N

Never had an idler problem, perhaps it's a case of over tensioning the tracks.

I stored the Tiger I on it tracks instead of blocks for it's first 6 or 7 years and the suspension ultimately sagged. It's my fault, completely, yet I could easily hammer Tamiya as not holding up over time.

I don't have a KT, so I don't have any first hand experience regarding throwing tracks, whether there's flex or idler. Could be both, I don't know.

What I do know is my tanks get tortured. I also know that modelers love to tinker and improve and there is always someone willing to sell you a upgrade, so enjoy it either way.

When I used to golf, I'd carry 3 Ping Zings, a 2 iron, 8 and putter. That's the minimum number a course will let on with. I can't count how many people told me that it was absurd. I'd just say I'm here to relax and you should too. Inevitably some guy with a $6000 set of 'tuned' carbon shafts would lambast me on the first tee. By the 9th he'd be seething since he was a few strokes behind the idiot with 3 clubs. By the 18th he'd be on the verge of tears.

"When I used to golf, I'd carry 3 Ping Zings, a 2 iron, 8 and putter. That's the minimum number a course will let on with. I can't count how many people told me that it was absurd. I'd just say I'm here to relax and you should too. Inevitably some guy with a $6000 set of 'tuned' carbon shafts would lambast me on the first tee. By the 9th he'd be seething since he was a few strokes behind the idiot with 3 clubs. By the 18th he'd be on the verge of tears."

...and that would be Tiger Woods you were playing?

"ausf" enjoys running "bashers" which is cool and who doesn't.

These are my basher builds and purposed for the family and local interested kids. Perhaps a better choice for a child's rc basher tank, just saying.

And these are my shelf queen builds, but built for rc tank club battles. All about form follows function gents.

John

If you mean because of the cost of the clubs, that's not that extreme, golf is a stupidly expensive sport. A Ping Zing iron was $85 new.
Multiply that by the entire set plus woods and it adds up quick. Then of course the dope is talked into 'upgrades' like carbon shafts for more flexibility. Then again, he's told that he'd get better performance out of them if they were custom sized...

Which is my point, like any hobby, you can dump as much money into it as you want, but it doesn't necessarily mean the end result would be better.

I build my tanks as I would a static, hardly what I'd dismiss as a basher.

My Tiger I was built with the full Aber kit.

Unfortunately, the archived uploaded photos don't seem to be available, but I found two of the StuG on my computer. This has full elevation, traverse, Benedini, Visation, Tamiya IR compatible with hidden sensors in the cupola periscopes and well used by the neighborhood.

In conclusion, for Tamiya rc tanks a gearbox brace, a metal elevation arm and depending on which Tamiya rc tank your building and improved idler adjuster system are the basics for dialing in some reliability. Installing larger motors increases the ability of the model to run better in the backyard or survive longer in rc tank club battle games.

Enjoy whatever you choose to do, from basher, to IR fighter to shelf queen! It just doesn't have to be only one type of model, now does it, of course not!

John

Too touchy, you wrote you run your rc tanks like a basher, I never said they look like a basher tank. All agree you built very nice rc tanks.

I have a Tamiya Tiger II. The plastic tracks and the idler are the weak points to the running gear. I replaced the plastic tracks with Kenny Kong metal tracks and modified my idler adjustment with stronger springs and that fixed the issues I had. At some point I may replace the idlers with Darryl's upgrade or use the the Hentec upgrade. I have not added a gearbox brace upgrade to it. I am still using the original gearboxes. The kit is about 6 years old so I think I have gotten my money out of the original gearboxes. Now all that said I do not run this tank like a race car. I go for a more scale speed. If I were to battle it like they do at Danville I would have to add that gearbox brace or at least reinforce the lower hull to keep it from flexing and would definitely replace the gear boxes. Just look at the videos they post of Danville battles, the tanks are moving all over the place like race cars. Not a knock on the battle speeds just making it clear that if one is just driving at scale speeds the Tiger II may be ok with stock parts.I do agree with Ausf about the metal barrels changing the longevity of the plastic elevation arms.I used the plastic barrel on my King Tiger and it is still going strong. Same for my Tiger I as well.

Agree, for scale speed the Tiger II uses gear reduction and black motors and 8T Pinion gears and all the rest from ETO Armor and Impact (pinion gears). My IR tanks run at scale speed, but are used like a purposed race car, meaning that they are only taken out and run for track days, in this case IR club battle days.

The Tiger II is one of my few builds that used Kenny Kong metal sprockets and tracks for the reasons MAUS45 stated. FYI, the Henntec idler setup is a joy to use, but may not be strong enough for very heavy metal King Tiger Tracks. I used DT spring loaded return idlers from ETO Armor, but used Henntec Idlers on the Leo 1 which work fine with the lighter (though still heavy) Leo 1 Kenny Kong metal tracks. If one cares, the problem with the Tamiya Tiger IE and KT barrels is that they are not not scale parts, hence the aftermarket part upgrades. The Tiger I plastic recoil arm failures was a known issue and that is why ETO Armor offered at one time an improved replacement part.

That's absolutelly right. Its so unrealistic that I've lost the interest. Is not only how fast those tanks drive, is the way most people fights: Moving back and forth the tank every half a second jumping like rabits...

About the king tiger hull flex, where does it exactly flexes? Just on the gearbox area and with a brace would be enough? Or some hull braces like the taigen tanks are needed?

Agreed, I am on the other side of the country and not a Danville player. I observed a while ago that their normal gaming style (at least viewed in their You Tube videos) was not for me.

King Tiger Hull Bracing: The hull flexes longitudinally (a twist) along the length of the hull. The photo is of the Tamiya Porsche Tiger II Hull Conversion (same hull as the KT Production Turret Kit). This is the masterful commissioned custom work by Daryl Turner. One of his best mechanical design efforts, converting the static display kit's hull to FO IR RC. FYI, this hull flex stuff is old news gents.

So a short but sweet answer to this from a tanker that battles 2-4 times a year at the 3 day events at Danville. The gearbox brace is a must to stop gearbox/shaft deflection due to the lower hull flex. Unless your doing some serious rock crawling or plan on a running your tank at a prolonged event. Wouldn't worry about it.

What didn't you like about the Danville vids John? You label all your tanks as "Danville tested?"

Yup, Danville allows road speeds. I'll be the last guy to tel someone who just spent $800+ on a tank they can' t play. We all know the KT is way fast out of box, so we have to find a medium. Also with 30-50 people.











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Rad, have you done IR combat yet? Dont rely on whats here do your own thing. What your seeing at Danvile I guarantee you'll end up at though. It's just laser tag on a platform. Also if you have an unbuilt tammy lower and give her a twist holdng front and back you'll get it.

Live today at Danville! NEAD event at AAF TANK MUSEUM.

Pcomm: Woah! That king tiger of yours looks bulletproof. I imagined the hull twist would be like that, but I was not 100% sure. I've read that it was way way worst in the older models. The "new" model has an extra angled plate on each side that helps a lot to prevent that torsion.

BennyB: Yep. I've done combat IR. Not at any tank club but with friends and my sons. The Danville battle area looks great and Im sure it is fun to drive through it but still dont like the way people battles. Yep. I know its just a laser tag game and people is playing with (expensive) toy tanks, but I would try to make the battles as realistic as possible.

Of course I imagine there is no way to tell people how to control their tanks reallistically...

Anyway, heading back to the topic: I think im boing to install the DKLM gearbox braces due to Im one of those guys who drive the tanks over rocks and drive my tanks for hours and hours, and its allways better to prevent than to cure.