Rad_Schuhart

Hey, both the SFR 1 D and SFR 1 HL have indeed IR battle-unit capabilities, but the problem is both boards have Heng Long and Taigen code, but not Tamiya code, hence are not Tamiya compatible.
A reader from my website wrote me some days ago. He told me he wrote Beier for implementing Tamiya battle capabilities but the software engineer refuses to do it because the demand is too low.
I must say even when I love my Beier boards, I do not understand this movement. They only have to add a few lines of code, that is it, but still they refuse to. This is really something I will never understand. A huge market is there and money is waiting, but for lazyness, they don't do it... yet. Maybe if some of you write him, he will open his eyes and will end adding it. I can only encourage you all to write him. If he sees a demand, he might add the new functions.

I said many times that IR for me is irrelevant, I never battle, neither I will, but if you want it, just write them.

cleong

Too true. If those guys start making things to meet their own needs, they will realize it is 1. Time consuming 2. Takes a lot of effort 3. No one is willing to pay them what they had put in. The math will never add up if you don't add passion and I respect the people who do this. Support them!

About a year back, I called in some favours and put in my own money to get a small batch of idler tensioners designed and made for the Tamiya Abrams, and got first hand experience on this. If you're a business and need to tack on a profit margin, you're going to have even less punters.

Everyone's going to have their own expected value proposition, intended use, and prioritization of features for their ideal tank board. It doesn't mean any single board is comprehensively better than the other.

Just choose the one that fits your purpose.

Just for the sake of discussion, the last board that was successful in the market would have been the Clark TK22 series, which (to me) had the right blend of price, features and a pent-up market (non-Tamiya tanks wishing to get into IR battling). Later Clark products didn't quite seem to hit the same combination and now we're back to a fairly scattered ecosystem of on-again, off-again, board makers who obviously and understandably do this on the side in their spare time.

Tanque

What he said, primarily because in the SF Bay Area, no in all of Northern California as far as I can determine RC tanks as a
serious hobby is essentially dead let alone IR RC combat. After Littlefield passed away it seems all the enthusiasts dried
up and blew away.

Durahl

Not exactly a new revelation... I have a not actively maintained Shapeways Shop for a bunch of 3D printable convenience parts in mostly the 10-20.- range from back then when I didn't have my own 3D Printer including parts for a TBS Crossfire 8CH Diversity Rx to prevent the antenna connectors from a) coming loose due to vibrations or b) the antennas falling into the props and getting clipped thus potentially downing whatever you're flying with that Rx.

The two parts together are like 25.- which is arguably a bit pricey considering their material worth but most of that is cashed in by Shapeways with me just riding along for the scraps.

Didn't stop people from contacting me about them not being able to afford them and requesting the files for free after they spend 125.- for the Rx, 150.- for the accompanying Tx Module, about 250.- for a Module compatible Radio and obviously a UAV/Plane in a sensible size for such an Rx in the 500-1'500.-, and most likely to top it all off a GoPro for ( back then ) 399.-. Didn't even ask "to pay" a reduced price for the files - Went straight to "for free" because they're 3D printable ( indicating that he must have access to a 3D Printer when 650.- Prusa i3 MK3 were among the cheapest back then ) - **** that mentality... If it isn't for free to begin with don't ask if you can have it for free man - The choice was already made the second you saw that price tag! You're only wasting everyone's time asking.

People using their Brains has really become a lost art these days... 😤

RichJohnson

Well what we see here in the US is IBU2 Ultimate and Clark and now DKTank. Elmod is here but rarely seen.

IBU2 ultimate still has its inertia issue making it useless or very difficult to battle.

DKTank is in its infancy with about 30 boards out there now and I have 5 and love them so far. But they have supply problems.

Bier and Elmod are cool but just too much tech and too costly for most of us.

And then there is Clark. I’m now going to step into it here….. Clark is doing more to kill my hobby than anyone.
most of my club in San Diego area is using HL and Clark, A lot of Clark. From 40s to 80s some channelized and some Sbus.
Nearly all of their Clark tanks are dead now. There is a theme of several common malfunctions from tank won’t go one direction any more to it takes one hit and flat dies to it takes one hit and goes invulnerable and some other quirks as well as burning up too. I have members that have spent big money on metal hull Abrams and leopards and such and other expensive taigens and then their boards fail. One very astute RC person had 3 Clark tanks fail at our last battle all for different reasons . He’s about to give up the hobby now because he already has 2 80s sent in for repair.
I know what your thinking this must be operator error but I have looked at these tanks and even helped set up a few of them. There is no operator error involved in most of them, save the ones that were stalling out from retaining the HL speaker which overloads the audio amp and then shuts the board down and that was corrected.
So we held our battle with a handful of members that could not come because their tank boards had already failed and they don’t have operational tanks yet, and then we had the guy who lost 3 in one day.

Im at the point I am now telling people just use the HL system and stick with it, it likely won’t fail. And don’t by Clark boards. I have two myself, an old 24 in my Stewart and a 40 in my m32 which has not had much use but I’m kinda expecting it to develop problems when I do.

it’s not a matter of being cheap, most of my club is willing to shell out 200 bucks for a board. Let’s face it RC tanks used to be even more expensive but they still ain’t cheap. The problem is like you guys said the engineers aren’t listeninng to their customers. IBU refuses to fix his code and get rid of the inertia, which I know personally caused 5 club members to return their boards as intolerable driving conditions. And it lost him customers. His problem I guess. You guys complain about bier not tweeting to be better for users. And Clark, who knows what his problem is but I have heard that Solie the dealer complained to Clark about his failures so much Clark shut him down and he switched over to IBU….LOL.

I was happy with the old IBU2 base. It did everything I wanted. Then they had to go an “improve it”. Now I found the DKT tank and I have high hopes for him being able to flood the market. I got some nice comments on how my m51 sounded at our last battle (DKTank). I also noticed how much better it drives over my old IBU2 EZ8. Feels like it has a more powerful ESC or something.

Fsttanks

IMO Rich is stop on with the Clark issues. Nothing but problem after problem and these problems are turning people off to the battling aspect of the hobby. The tanks work “great at home” but as soon as they get on the field and start taking hits all kinds of functioning issues come up. Some people are so upset they are going back to using the HL 6.0-7.0 system with LegoDEI IR receivers for battling because they work reliably (within the 6C-LP rules for HL battle use).

The DK boards Rich is running do perform very well and in battles reliably register hits equally well to Tamiya or HL 6.0+ tanks with LegoDEI receivers. Can’t say that is the case with Clark’s in recent days.

Crius

Can you tell me more about the 6C-LP rules? Just exactly what do those entail? We all know the HL boards aren't fully compatible with Tamiya, but I'm sure you could create a set of rules that would get around that so I'm very curious as to what you guys have come up with.

Fsttanks

6C-LP = 6 count for reload time and Low Power mode.

We have found a good balance for HL vs Tamiya “protocol” is to have the HL 6.0 + (equipped with a LegoDEI IR receiver or equivalent) to be set on “Low Power” mode and have a “6 second count” between shots (6 because people count at different rates and it tends to averages out to 5 seconds). This in combination with the normal 6 hit of the HL system is about equal to a Tamiya “protocol” tank set to medium. By default it also means that all HL 6.0+ tanks have to fight as medium tanks, which in better then nothing at all.

The Tamiya “protocol” tank typically has the advantage in speed at the beginning of the battle, but the HL running on Low Power has the advantage at the end. They meet somewhere in the middle which is where the balance comes into play.

As long as the HL 6.0+ tank user has his tank set up with the LegoDEI (or equivalent) IR receiver and counts between his shots are not rushed, our experience shows the HL 6.0+ systems interface quite well in IR battling with Tamiya “protocol” tanks.

It’s not perfect (we do monitor players and enforce the rule) but the 6C-LP rule allows new players to join in, have fun and learn the battling aspect of the hobby. Many shortly upgrade to other control systems, mostly Clark for cost and “ease” of set up. Hence why we are seeing so many Clark’s and the issues with Clark systems.

Note: We do highly recommend that the HL tanks have their airsoft feature disconnect and their “yellow recoil wires” jumped for best performance and interfacing with Tamiya. Otherwise they are at a rather substantial disadvantage at firing shots effectively.

tankme

I have a HL 6.1S board in my T-72 that hasn't gone more than about 4 battle days and now it won't fire the IR LED or trigger the servo recoil. All other functions work. I've swapped IR LEDs and servos and still nothing. I can't swap in a different board as I don't have another HL 6.1 or 7.1 to swap in. I'm troubleshooting some weird issues with my TCB boards now when it won't drive forward or reverse, but will do a neutral turn. The only boards I haven't had issues with yet are my Clark TK40s, 50s, and 80s... I guess we can't win these days. I'm about to swap the Tamiya electronics back in my KV-2 and pull the TCB out of it. Still need to do more testing with the TCBs to see what the issues are.

Crius

I have a few tanks with the 6.0 board in them but I haven't really run them enough to see how well they hold up. Maybe now that the weather is getting nicer I can correct that. If I can tear myself away from the slot car track.

Anyway, I sent an email to Kevin Grannum to see if there's any possibility that he might do another run of the asp. What do you guys think? Do you think there's enough interest here to make it worth his while? I know if he reproduces the asp I'll buy at least two of them myself, what about the rest of you guys? Rich, do you think the guys in your club would want to try out this board? Most guys that have an asp really love it and wouldn't give it up for anything, myself included. I sent a link to this thread so if there's anything you want Kevin to know, this would be a good time to say it. I'm pretty sure he'll at least skim this thread so I really think we should take this opportunity to tell him what we think. Those that have an asp board, how well do you like it? Let's give Kevin a little feedback. And what about the guys who don't have one? Are you interested? Would you be willing to try one if he produces another run? For those on the fence, if you want, I have some good videos of the ASP in action that I can post here, just let me know if anyone wants to see them. As far as I'm concerned this is the finest tank board that's ever been made, but of course I have not tried the elmod. You can find the asp on the rcta website where you can read the description, but they're listed as out of stock.

So I'd really like to hear what you guys think about this.

Rad_Schuhart

Interesting message you wrote. I have been a RCTA fan, my first hobby tank was a heng long with the RC5HL adaptor, which made me start in the world of programmable radios which I enjoyed a lot. Later on I got an IBU 2 pro, and then got two ASP 2, which I found BASTLY better than any other alternative in the market at that time. One of those two ASP2 has been inside my son's fauvorite tank until three months ago. Even when I liked them, I must say I sold both my ASP 2, because, sorry to say, I got much better alternatives, like the Beiers I reviewed in my website. I know it is not fair to compare new with old tech, but what is true, is true.

There are some things I'd fix or add in newer ASP boards, and all of them I already told to Kevin several times along the years.
For summarizing them:
1) More light outputs. I love lights and I really do need a bunch of fully configureable light outputs. That means if I want 10 machine guns in a tank, I can have them. If I change my mind and I want 4 blinkers, 1 fog light, 2 machine guns, 2 boat lights and one aircraft light, I can have it.
2) I want to be able to play the sound of my choice. Not sound banks with 4 slots where you trigger a random sound. Nope, I need to have perfect control of at least 24 user sounds.
3) Not needing to recalibrate the board everytime I switch the tank On (you know, when you switch the tank on and it takes some seconds to read the radio signal that needs to be neutral)
4) No headlights blinking at start
5) Better control while turning (turned too sharp) and fix the sounds while driving at super slow speeds with tamiya motors (the rev up noise keeps looping most of the times)
6) More servo outputs.
7) 16ch SBUS use.

For good or for bad, all those needs are more than well solved in Beier boards, hence I (and I remark I) don't need any more boards.
You all know I am rare and exigent with my toys and want one trillion functions or I don't have fun, but most of the people is not like me, so I do believe a simple board with basic functions and with the massive RCTA IT battle capabilities could sell very good in the USA and pretty much everywhere else. Something like an improved and smaller IBU2 Pro would be what market needs, and then, if he rises some funds, to launch a super complex mega full functions board to suit freaks like me. Then I might jump into RCTA products again, but as I wrote in my SFR 1 HL review, I don't see space for improving besides controlling mini robotic crew inside of the tanks. That would be the coolest thing in earth, don't you think?

Crius

Rad, I think the only way you'll ever get a board that will completely satisfy you is if you design it yourself. You're at the very top of the Spectrum, in the 1% of tankers that want all the fancy gizmos. For the other 99% of us, we just want a decent board that can battle with Tamiya and is reliable without all the failures. I understand what you want and I know you would make good use of it, but 99% of us wouldn't be able to use 90% of the stuff that you want on a board. I think if Kevin decides to do another run of the ASP it would be a very good solution for what's going on right this minute, and would provide an option for a very good board at a reasonable price that I truly believe a lot of tankers would really embrace. I already told Kevin that if he does another run, I'll take at least two myself.

Rad_Schuhart

I wish I could make my own! Yep, I already said I am a very rare case and most people does not need what I do need, hence if I were a retailer I'd make something that people wants like an improved IBU 2 Pro, and I'd definitely listen to the clients. But at the other hand, man, many people writes me through my website wanting to have the same features in their toys as I do. Really, there are more people that might seem interested in having toys with full bells and whistles. I am sure they are still minority, maybe less than a 5%, but hey, they do exist.

I understand most people won't need so many light outputs, but I believe 6 fully configureable is not something crazy. If you count them, it can be two machine guns, headlights, notek and another two for extra functions, for example. Same with the user sounds, maybe 24 is too much for everybody, but sure thing 4 in the IBU 2 Ultimate are too few. Something in between would work.

Anyway, not everything is lost. I know a very nice guy in Denmark who makes his own "Open panzer" boards, but in all-in-one package. That is with ESCs, sound card, a nice bunch of light outputs at an affordable price. He makes them himself in very small batches. I don't have any board from him but if I did not have the Beiers or if I have more tanks in the future, I'd be getting one for sure.

I will write him, he might be interested in helping some of you, guys.

jha13

There are more than just 1% of users - who use a Beier SFR-1-D / SFR-1-HL or Elmod.
Here in germany tank battle is no longer common - it is indeed dying out here.
At meetings you see more and more finely detailed models built with many functions and realistic sound.
Those who do not need a board with a lot of functions, will be happy to stick with the TK-6.0 and newer.

Tankster

I agree100%. My only boards are Beier SFR-1-D, SFR-1-HL and an Elmod Fusion Pro. My main enjoyment is in realistic sound, appearance and movement. I personally have no interest in battling but respect those that do. Such a great inclusive hobby.

tomhugill

so warthunder….

Crius

I think you may have misunderstood what I said. I never said that 1% of tankers use elmod or beier boards, I said that only about 1% of tankers are on the same level as Rad. There's a big difference. I don't even battle, and I'm still not satisfied with the 6.0 and I'll never be happy with just that. What we need is a decent board, that's reliable, reasonably priced, and fully Tamiya compatible. IR battles are not dying over here, they are alive and well, and I understand fully what these guys want and need, even though I don't use the stuff myself. I'm more in line with the finely detailed stuff that has lots of functions (don't forget you're talking to the guy that built a 1/6 Hetzer that shoots .50 caliber paintballs, I love fancy gizmos), but I would still love to see another run of the ASP board. For a mid-level tanker like myself, it's easy enough to program it and make it do the things that I want it to do without pulling out half my hair. I don't need the same level of functions that Rad does, but my tiger with the ASP board has two different machine guns on two different channels with LEDs and two different soundtracks, plenty of other good sounds, like voice and the incoming rounds, Airsoft Barrel recoil, and the driving and handling performance is excellent. I also have an IR tiger with an asp in it and not only is it fully tamiya compatible, it goes beyond because it contains the tamiya 2 Shot kill code, you can fight with limited ammo, it detects MG hits, and other functions that aren't found in a standard tammy kit. Like I said, if Kevin makes more, I'll take at least 2 and I know there are many, many other guys that feel the same way. I'm trying to get those guys to speak up here so that Kevin can see what I see. I think we all can agree that the more options we have, the better off the entire hobby will be.

tomhugill

doesnt rich run a club in cali? They seem ardent battlers

Crius

Yes, Rich has a pretty active club, and there are a couple more out there, I think one in Colorado as well. One little trick that those guys will love about the ASP is the machine gun detection feature. You can fire your machine gun as many times as you want to as quickly as you want to with no reload times, and when you hit another tank the sound changes so you know that your IR emitter is in line and if you hit your main gun fire button right then you are almost guaranteed a hit. Not quite as good as a scope, but better than nothing.

tomhugill

I honestly think Clark’s have an issue with the heat, I remember Roland from hk saying they had had lots of issues in this direction. Where as in chilly old blighty with be generally not had issues even on club displays where they’re driven hard for 2 days solid.

cleong

We didn't have problems with Clark on the heat front, and we're one degree off the equator here, although that was the TK22 series of boards.

Shagnifico

Clark.. No circuit protection and only a thirty day warranty. It’s almost as if revenue from repair fees is part of their business plan 🤔

Rad_Schuhart

The RCTA Infra red functions are unmatched. Machine gun combat, repair tank function, friend or foe, black box recording everything, to be able to see in your radio who shoots you, to read everything at home after the battle, setting rounds (ammo level)... and more. Nobody has done more and better than IR combat than RCTA.

For those interested on it, I believe you can wire those RCTA mako boards to almost any existent setups. That is also an option to consider, but please correct me if I am wrong, because I have no experience with makos.

Crius

I don't know if the mako works with the new 6.0, but they can handle everything that came before from most manufacturers. Hooking one to a 6.0 might be an option to be explored, especially since I heard back from Kevin and there will be no more asp boards. Between the pandemic and the lock downs in china and the supply chain issues it's just not worth it, and I can see that. Getting a board to market even before the pandemic was a major PITA, now it's even worse. This virus has pretty much fracked up the entire world. I wonder if anyone will ever be held accountable for that? Silly me, of course they won't.

Crius

But I did take a stroll down memory lane and found this short video that has just a couple of features I like and why I'll never give up my asp boards.


Model matching is a function of the radio, not the asp, but it's still cool.