Benny Boy

How can i make my hl tiger 1 have alot more power. Please help

ah64

its all about the gearing. If you want more torque you would have to play around with the gearing, if you want more speed you have to spin the gears faster!!! like a brush less. but brush less motors have to spin really fast in order to stay stable (COOL). If it is speed you are looking for tanks back then didn't go fast, they weren't designed to. There purpose was to deflect other tank shells and cause as much damage with there shells as could be done. Back to the gearing You would have to play with the pinion gear. the other gears have to stay the same. Unless you have a way to change the diameter and pitch of the gears you are stuck. You would have to find a pinion that would mesh with the Gear box primary gear. that is the gear that runs off the pinion. Or you could take those pinion's off the Stock motors and get some low turn motors in their place, I believe they are 400 Size motors. A 9-10 Turn motor would have torque. I believe lower the turn makes torque. [8D]

Benny Boy

can you give me a web site

tac23

Does anyone have a link for a correctly sized pinion, or for a higher torque motor that the existing HL pinion would fit onto?

Perry S.

Not sure they exist. The HL pinion is 8 tooth on a 2.3 mm shaft. I thought I saw a 7 tooth one before but can't remember where. Your kinda between a rock and a hard place here. A low turn motor will surely pull too many amps for the HL electronics to bear. Gearing is the only way to go if you want more torque to the tracks.
Perry

tac23

is there a relatively painless way to do this, or are we looking at a total rebuild of the gearbox as the only option?

Perry S.

I wasn't able to find a simple method. Be really happy if someone could suggest one. I had to take the path of pain.
Perry

icecreamslick

My Feedback: (9)

I think that the trick is to buy yourself a pinion puller. Once you get one off, you can take the gear to a local hobby shop and see if they can match the pitch to a similar pinion with one or two more teeth. You will probably have to make one of the motor mount holes in each gearbox into a curved slot, so you can adjust to the correct gear mesh and you will certainly have to make a flat spot on the motor shafts because the new gears will need to be held on with a grub screw (allen wrench set screw). I bet that even one or two more teeth would really slow down your tank and increase the torque.

....nothing is ever easy.

johnmar78

well,
The most efficint way and reliable that last for many years is to get youself a pair of tamiya heavy duty gear box. Its build are tuff, strong gear case so as gears. Lots of power and torque. If you have seem my pnazer III with tamiya gear box on hills taht I posted 23 weeks ago and you know why.

This is my personal taste that gives me no trouble or headache....do the right way and dnt feel sorry.
Have your say mate?

Perry S.

Icecreamslick,
Sorry, but you have it backward! More teeth on the pinion will speed up the gearbox and reduce torque. The opposite of what you want
Perry

johnmar78

wthin the same radious, more teeth means more torque and therefore more gear reduction. eg 54 teeth has more torquen than 50 teeth. other option is to increase the teeth count on the final gear off the 380 motor. Make sure you keep the same diameter.

Perry S.

Yes Johnmar, theoretically you are correct......but....Increasing the teeth and keeping the radius the same means that you are severely decreasing the pitch of the teeth and the pinion will not mesh with the next gear. It is impossible. You would have to change the pitch of the next gear to match the new pinion. Now your talking about building a new gearbox.
Perry

pzrwest

People confuse speed with power. Speed is how fast it will go where power is how much weight can it pull or move. f you take 2 vehicles with the same transmission with differnt sized motors the one with the smaller motor will not haul as much as the one with the larger motor. The larger motor will not have to work as hard as the smaller motor to haul the same load. And as was said tanks were not fast

StoneColdFreak

No, no, no, I'm sure that is right. More teeth on the pinion gear means that the diameter of the gear is larger. A larger gear takes longer to complete a revolution, so it is slower to make the circle. Slower gearing is more torque and less speed.

Perry S.

Sorry and please don't take offense here but you are wrong. If you fix the pitch (expressed in teeth/in, teeth/radian, or teeth/degree) you will have more teeth on the gear as the diameter increases. When calculating gear reductions you can do it as a simple ratio or (teeth on gear2)/(teeth on gear1) and so on through the rest of the gearbox. Remember the pitch must be fixed or the gears will not move. So with some simple math try this;

For a 8 tooth pinion and a 40 tooth secondary gear you have (40/8) or a 5:1 gear reduction.

Now try it for a 20 tooth pinion - (40/20) or a 2:1 gear reduction.

This is simple powertrain engineering.

For further explanation you can reference this thread

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_59...gearbox/tm.htm

Perry

johnmar78

I agree totally. "pitch has to remain the same".....so we do really need another 4:1 reduction. But wait, on honda cars, we can change the final diff from 4.4 to 4.7. But still remains the same pitch? how is that possible?

mailedfist

don't worry BennyBoy!, i got your back...follow my new thread <Das Hen long Tiger 1 build> and i promise to reveal to you and this whole forum how to create a modified stock gearbox that will have tons of torque and reduce the speed of your tiger by over 2X!

swathdiver

Having read Benny's prior posts, I think the young lad is looking for speed. He's tired of his Tiger driving like a Tiger, takes too long to get anywhere. Benny wants his Tiger to move like a Hellcat! Graupner Speed400s and a big fan Benny Boy! My Pershing was at least 2x as fast as my Panther with the big sprocket with those motors in it. Should fly with Speed400s.

StoneColdFreak

I never take offense until people cuss at me. Sorry for the argument, Perry, you are right. I seem to remember making that same mistake with that gearing idea years ago, but I had forgotten the correction until I researched what you were saying. My bad. [sm=red_smile.gif]

A larger pinion gear (more teeth) moves its corresponding gear faster, increasing the speed of the gearbox. [sm=thumbs_up.gif]

Chad

Perry S.

No worries Chad, according to my wife I am wrong 99% of the time
Perry

WhiteWolf McBride

My Feedback: (3)

Pinions:

Less teeth = lower speed = more torque. Same thing with motors: more winds = more torque (like the Integy 45, 55 & 65 turn 500 class units)

To increase the speed as well, just use a 7 cell pack to compensate (if you chopped the battery compartment)

As for pinion supplies:

The Kyosho half-8's use one fitted for a 360, and it might fit... lemme bag my Bulldog at the end of the month and check. They have 12, 14 & 16 tooth metal pinions, and other makes have some for the Losi and other brands of mini-buggies. That would be where I started my search.

I'd also invest in a pinion puller... messed up a few Tamiya DMD stock units pulling the pinions by hand... (messed up the pinions too)

Perry:

Gah, brain was thinking one thing, paws typed another. Pinion error ~fixed~, no need to squal like a stick pig. A polite PM works better.

Perry S.

AAAAARRRRRGGGGHHHHHHH!!!! (banging my head)[:@][:@][:@]Please read above. For a pinion that has the same pitch as the other HL gears in the gearbox, MORE teeth will ALWAYS give you more speed and less torque.. It is an engineering precept that is as old as the understanding that an apple will fall as opposed to fly when dropped
Perry

Perry S.

Stuck Pig? LOL, sorry, that was my attempt at dramatic flair. No offense, you've helped me tons in the past.
Perry

johnmar78

I am thinking hard. For the pinion gears, the second gear(2o teeth) after the motor pinion brass gear(12 teehh)-i think.
say you have 12:20 reduction , by increase the teeth count on second gear to 40. instead of 20. This will incrase the torque 50% but reduce the speed by 50%, since its has double amount of teeth as compared to original teeth count-20.

Thats why, to save the money and redesign the gear mount, the 3;1 gear reduction is added to the end of the gear box, otherwise, you need re map the whole gear box...which is very time inefficient.

Perry S.

yes, that is correct. The Tamiya 3:1 reduction mods appear directly off the pinion. I think it is mostly because space is very limited near the final drive end.
Perry