Kabul Tanker

Hi

I am new to the tank worls as many people are this time of year but I have a question. I have searched the forum for the last little while looking for solutions to IMPROVING the rear idler wheel supports. I read mention of a solid, across chasis axle, but there was no directions. I am looking for any and all ideas anyone may have to create a new rear idler mounting system that...

1. Is stronger and will prevent actual breaking of the chasis and teh mounting point for teh idlers

2. Will allow the idler wheels to come off for maintenance and put back on easily, without using a hammer and a punch(I am sure you can only do this so many times before teh chasis is comprimised)

I do think a single axle configuration is likely teh best way to go... but I am hoping either to be enlightened to something different or for insight to installing a solid axle.

Thanks!!!

iggysmith

Hello Kabul

You are right about the weakness of the rear idler wheels on the Heng Long Tiger. I had to return one which arrived already broken I did however check it out and thought it was pretty poor. The single axle solution you are thinking about will not work unless both wheels are free to move independantly on a single shaft, as when the tank is turning the idlers move in opposite directions to one another.

My intention is to make a seperate metal plate with a stub axle fitted to it one for each side and then fit these inside the tank with the axles passing through the body, although I have not yet started working on it as the tank is dead electrically and I am going to have to replace the boards first.

I am going to do a full metal track conversion but do think that the support for the idlers is the most likely place for a failure to occur. I am sure that other chaps on here will have share their own remedies for this if indeed it IS a real problem.

Best wishes

Ian

let us know how you get on.

Brimauster

It seems as though these idlers are a sore spot with a lot of HL owners, myself being one of them. I have be searching for a solution to this problem myself for quite some time. In my travels, I have hit upon several unique approaches to this problem. There are some very ingenious people out there with some very impressive skills. This is what Willy at CustomRCmodels has done with a Tamiya King Tiger:

[link]http://www.customrcmodels.com/id511.htm[/link]

This looks VERY do-able in a HL, and honestly I plan on doing a modified version of this approach myself. My only problem is that I have no machining tools in my shop, and making the parts may prove to be difficult. I could have a machine shop do it for me, but it may take a bit of trial and error, do-overs and design changes for which I don't have the funds to pay a machinist for.

Now that the holidays are over, I am planning on getting to this mod right away. I plan on doing step-by-step photos of the job for all to see. There are many other people with many great ideas on this matter that I've seen here on this forum and at... ummm... another place.

Kabul Tanker

Those pictures look great but a little beyong what I want to do. The system in teh picture allows for vertical movement of the rear idler. I like it but, I do not thing HL needs this. But now I have a great idea based off this and the pictures provided for fixing metal suspension.....

I think a metal block in teh center is a great idea.... in that can be two threaded holes for set screws...... these will hold the rods in place.... to strengthen teh actual chasis itself, maybe bolt pieces of thin aluminum or stainless steel to one side with a drill hole through for teh axle.

Its likely hard to imagine but THANKS! for teh web site.... my mind is now working!

honestly I haven't even started working on my stock Tiger yet... I am just aquiring parts and ideas to make the refit smoother.

jason

swathdiver

I asked this same question recently on the Panzerkettan Forum:

[link=http://www.rc-panzerketten-forum.com/wbb2/thread.php?threadid=6780]Rear Idler[/link]

The easiest way would be to retrofit the Tamiya system. Now, how do we get Tamiya parts? I can do this one easily!

HVI

Hi Kabul tanker, I changed my HL tracks for metal ones and since then the left hand track kept jumping off. To stop this I made some track tensioners;

firstly make a crank to fit into the hull housing, I borrowed a mini lathe and made a 10mm metal disc with an offset 5mm axle mount, this joins onto a short axle inside the hull the short axle is held in a bracket mounted inside the hull and fixed to the floor by the two screws you can see under the hull. By loosening one of the screws I can adjust the tension on each track until they stop jumping off the wheels. The point of no return is drilling out the plastic rear ilder mounts - tricky because the existing hole is offset and drags the drill bit to the side.

HVI

KT, this is a better picture.... regards HVI

Kabul Tanker

Hi,

Thanks for the advice... so what I can see is you made a bracket which allows teh idler axle to slide through. In this bracket you have a collar with a screw so you can turn the shaft and lock it in place. I think I understand that at the end of teh shaft is another one, offset that the idler attaches to so that when the shaft is turned the track can be tensioned. Am I right?

Do you have a better picture, maybe one from above of the mounting bracket and also of the way the idler is attached... Did you simply use the Tamiya idler shaft?.... How did you join all of the axles together?

thanks.... what a great discussion this has become!!!

HVI

KT, no Tamiya parts, I made the brackets and axles from scrap, the collars came from my son's meccano. The stub axles screw into the rear idler mounts I cut m3 threads onto the axle and the idler mount. I've put a small bolt throgh the idelr hubs and these screw into the mounts - as you can see on the left wheel. Now I had best put the track back on before I loose the pin....

Kabul Tanker

Thanks... what a great job and idea!!!!

KT

Kabul Tanker

Hi,

Actually one last question because I am having a hard time picturing it....... sorry.....

OK.. I understand teh bracket you made and screwed on through the hull....I understand teh collar with the set screw....... I understand the long axle which extends from the idler wheel hole in the side of the chasis and slides through teh collar and bracket..... I understand teh idler wheel itself is attached to teh shorter axle usuing a screw (M3).....but.....

I am having a hard time understand how the smaller axle is attached to the offset disc and how the disc is attached to the longer axle......

Attached is a picture of teh offset mount for the Tamiya tiger, ignore the bushing..... is this similar to your set up?

HVI

KT. I have drawn the idler in power point and word docs, but cannot upload either onto this can you send me a private email and I will send iton to you. H

Kabul Tanker

Thanks!!!

That would be great!

[email protected]

KT

Kabul Tanker

Hey,

Here are two options from Tamiya.... All I have to do is make sure the Tamiya Chasis is the same or bigger than the HL. I do not have a lathe.... Also I do not see a problem with a single axle as long as teh idler wheels can move independantly....

KT

Kabul Tanker

Oh and the axle kit from Tamiya is ONLY $21.oo including shipping.... Might be easier and more time efficient..

swathdiver

What parts and where to buy the Tamiya stuff to make a working idler for the HL? What about the spindle that the idler wheel attaches too, can we use the Tamiya one too?

Kabul Tanker

Its just an idea... basically.. the suspension does not need to be independent but the idler wheels need to spin indepenently.. That is why I think the axle in teh picture will work. Even if it is not wide enough, The axle.. you can get your own stock to attach the ends to..... Then use a secondary axle.. one for each wheel.. and place in the offset hole.. From teh picture it looks like I may have to tap the hole and put in a machine screw to hold teh secondary axle in place.....

To hold the main axle in teh chasis I figure I can use two piece of alumminum channel stock... bolt it in from the bottom... then use two sleeves with set screws so I can spin the main axle to adjust the slack.

What do you think? I am new to all this but am thinking my tank out very carefully. I know you are a vet here... opinions would be great swath

Kabul Tanker

http://www.backyardarmor.com/Elite_A...r_Upgrades.htm

That is teh link of the part I think I will order.... it is only $21.00 with shipping...

Kabul Tanker

Also swath... I think it would be better to get all tamiya stuff.. and if the secondary axles for the idlers is a little thincker than teh HL idlers, simply drill out the idler itself, assuming you have teh metal upgrade kit of course...

I really think this will work... the toughest part I think is finding a way to mount the sleeves around teh main axle so it can be spun and then held in place to adjust teh tension and to line the hole from teh chasis to teh mounting brackets and to the chasis....

KT

swathdiver

I've only been in this hobby since last Christmas. Almost all of my development time has been in the airsoft units and the motors. I originally shelved the idler idea but my Tiger throws tracks when backing and turning (like the real ones) and since I'm going all out on detailing a Tiger after the Pershing, might as well do the idler conversion too.

Are the ends in the picture the pieces that would be outside of the hull? They attach to the idler wheel itself right? I'm having a hard time conceptulizing, need a picture!

Kabul Tanker

Hey James,

I have not done it yet... but yes the idea would be the ends in the picture would be outside the tank, between teh chasis and the idler wheel.... and the axle of teh idler wheel, the secondary axle would fit into teh "end"... Because teh end is OFFSET then you could adjust the tension...

Sorry no pics.. but once I get teh parts I will take some..

Jason

swathdiver

Ok, so what we need to build then is a mount inside the tank, cut the axle if the hull width isn't right and some way to hold the axle position in place with adjustments. I'm a litlte dense, I'm getting it now!

Kabul Tanker

Exactly, thats my idea so far... and for mounts I would use u shaped (channel) aluminum stock... 1 inch wide.. 2 pieces, one for each side. I have not figured out yet how to attach the collar with the locking screw to adjust the tension, but when I do I will post it here...

If you come up with any improvements let me know.. but so far, combining alot of other people's ideas, I think that is teh easiest and best way thus far...

Brimauster

If I could get some help posting pictures, I could show what I have come up with to solve the weak HL idler setup. I used Willy's solution as a basis for my design. Since I have no lathe or other machine tools, all parts are from scavenging and from the hardware store. In theory it should work. If anyone can tell me how to get pictures up, I can show you.

HVI

Jason,

if you can imagine the collar that holds the inboard axle has threads on both sides, then you can use the upper most thread to lock the axle in position, and using a screw through the hull floor fix both the mounting bracket and the collar in place with the same screw. On my tiger of the 2 screws you can see under the hull the out screws do this, the inner screws prevent and rotation in the bracket caused by the track tension.

I like the idea of using the Tamiya parts too. What I cannot picture is how the swing arm will fit against the hull wall. I am guessing the parts in your picture break in to 3 bits (2 arms and an axle?) Surely the flangs on the swing arms will get in the way and prevent a flush fit??

regards Harvey