I did the same thing, spent $10 at Radio Shack buying a bunch only to see them inside while I was trying to solder the new 104s on!

i saw a mention of 5 pole motors somewhere on here, has anybody had any luck with them?

i will be converting an old style tamiya king tiger trans to dual motor and the new hen long boards in the near future and am collecting info before i start to spend <going to take out the clutches and put in a pair of universal spur gear mounts i will either find or make in the same place with slightly smaller or off set spur gears>

I've converted several old Tamiya KT using the HL gear boxes. I've used the standard ones (tiger box as the output shaft is long enough. You will need a strip of 2mm sprue to separate (space) the gear box from the side of the tank (it also keeps the gear axels from rubbing on the side. I use millioput to set the motors in place then when hardened I use small screws on the side and bottom to secure the motors. It has worked perfectly. You will need to grind flat one side of the output shaft to fit the tamiya drive sprocket (easy with a dremel) I just got the 3-1 gear box from RC Command and will install them shortly. I've been usuing the stock gear box with the white capped motor with a 8t pinion. It's worked fine (especially I have metal tracks) but the 3-1 will make it a real stump puller. You can also use the HL turret travere ring and motor (but you will have to space the ring to fit (I use a strip of sprue - don;t recall the thickness) I usually buy a cheap 1/24 HL tank off ebay to get all my miscellaneous parts like turrel ring, turrel motor.gun elevation motor etc /upper wire harness. you will still need the smoke and sound electronics. Its easier to do than you think

thank you, what i am after though is some info on 5 pole motors, the rest of the conversion i am not to worried about, i have been reworking rc's for at least 15 years now, scratchbuilding for more then half of that, all ready did the hen long turret ring mod

Isn't that what the stock white capped motors are?

checked yesterday the white cap are three pole, i will keep looking...

Hello swathdiver, I 've tried to figure out from the articles above but still I am not  quite clearly understand so could I ask for your comment on the motors selection? Which motor is more torquey? Which motor is more speedy?
Between  Graupner speed400 and Tamiya speed 380. I want to put them combined with 3:1 metal gear boxes in my M41A3.</p>

Don't remember the exact specs of the Tamiya 380 but believe the Graupner Speed400 is your best bet on all accounts.

Thank you sir
   I do believe in your answer.
siam
BKK THAILAND

You're welcome!

<p style="MARGIN: 5pt 0cm" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">Hi all,

</p></span></p><p style="MARGIN: 5pt 0cm" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial"> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">I have found the information on motors and gearboxes in this thread fascinating. I have a HL Tiger 1 and HL KV 1, both have the new silver capped motors. I would like to find the specs on this motor so that I can juggle gear ratios to suit the scale speeds of my two tanks. I guess because they are new, the informed boffs have not had time to test them?

</p></span></p><p style="MARGIN: 5pt 0cm" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">My simple tests have deduced that it drives my Tiger through standard HL metal gears at 1.76mph. This seems to put it somewhere between the output of the white and black capped motors. I have not tested my new KV1 yet.

</p></span></p><p style="MARGIN: 5pt 0cm" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">I don’t know if they are Suntech motors, they are all marked RS380SH followed by a serial number and a faded brand name that looks similar to the Mabuchi mark.

</p></span></p><p style="MARGIN: 5pt 0cm" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">I would be grateful for any information.

</p></span></p><p style="MARGIN: 5pt 0cm" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">Regards,

</p></span></p><p style="MARGIN: 5pt 0cm" class="MsoNormal"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial">Captain Bullshot<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">    </span>

</p></span></p>

Someone posted speed test specs and running it through the calculator the motors were said to turn almost 11,000 rpms. This was within the last 2-3 months I think.

It was YOU! 10,750 rpms was the calculation underway and under load based on the numbers you provided.

<p style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman">Hi Swathdiver,</font></p><p style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"> 

</p></font></font></p><p style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman">You’re right, based on the Tiger’s performance the new motor was turning at 10,750 RPM, but that was driving the tank under full load. The figures in this thread relate to no load or sprocket RPM so I can’t compare the new motor to the white and black caps as I don’t have the instruments to measure RPM.</font></p><p style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"> 

</p></font></font></p><p style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman">If the new motor is a Mabuchi then it's performance is almost identical to the black capped motors. The motor looks like a Mabuchi but is made in China. It may be a copy and not perform as well.</font></p><p style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"> 

</p></font></font></p><p style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman">Would a black capped Suntech push a Tiger through metal gears and HX18 at the same speed of 1.76mph? Would a drop from 16200RPM with no load to 10750RPM under full load sound about right?</font></p><p style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"> 

</p></font></font></p><p style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman">Any advise would be appreciated.</font></p><p style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman">Regards,</font></p><p style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman">Captain Bullshot</font></p><p style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><font size="3"><font face="Times New Roman"> 

</p></font></font></p><p style="MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt" class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes"><font size="3" face="Times New Roman"> </font></span></p>

We have a 1st generation HL Tiger that was upgraded to smoke and sound electronics (TK-RX13 board) but still runs plastic tracks and gearboxes. It did 2.49mph or 4.01Kmh on a speed run with the black capped motors, mathematically working out to about 15,200rpms under load.

Scale speed for the Tiger is about 1.50mph/2.41Kmh.

The white capped motors running through metal gearboxes and tracks ran about 1.56mph on another Tiger, about 9500rpms.

I don't know the differences between boards, if there are any as it relates to these tests, as TK-RX13s are still used in our motor pool.

Judging from the available data, the black capped motors are fastest and should work well with your TK-RX18.

black capped motors, plastic gears and a RX 18 board would make a tiger like a race car

I bet changing to an 8-tooth pinion would slow it down some and offer a nice gear reduction for more tractive effort without compromising speed too much. Yes, according to the calculator it would still run almost 2mph with an overall ratio of 49:1 compared to 39:1.

Thanks for the response, it sounds like the silver caps are more akin to the white caps than black caps. That leaves me even more confused as exactly what they are.

I don't want to buy a couple of white capped motors if they are going to be the same the silver, and I understand 3/1 reduction gears are now supplied with silver caps. Based on the performance with standard gears that would make my tanks very slow indeed.

I want to try Swathdiver' s suggestion of fitting an eight-tooth pinion but cannot find a supplier who stocks them in the UK. Does anybody know of a stockist?

here is what I use (with a standard metal gears with white capped motors)

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXMRG2&P=7

They work great especially if you are using the RX18 board

If you go 3:1 I suggest getting speed400 motors (without them the tanks are really slow)

Many thanks for the suggestion thomasjohnmurphy, I'll order a couple of 8-tooth pinions today.

Captain Bullshot

Hi Everyone,
    My first bulldog combo is as per the suggestion, 3:1 gearboxes with speed 400 graupner motors,I really happy with it.
And my friend who also have another bulldog just want to make another combo which is 3:1 gearboxes with speed 540 motors[X(] and he said he'll modify the gearbox housing to provide more room for the bigger motors. How you guys think about it? Other things are similar to mine such as, RX18 with vent fan,high capacity batt.,metal tracks,...etc
     I think if he succeeded he would gain more both power and speed, do you think so?

I think he'll rip the tank to pieces with 540 motors if the board doesn't blow up first. Even if he changed the electronics to handle the high amperage draw of the 540s the stock running gear will not last very long zipping along at 6mph in my opinion.

Hi swathdiver,  
   I'm urging to know really[:-]!!! Just now I 've told him and still he also wants to try by using metal gearboxes 3:1,metal tracks&amp;sprockets.
I told him that for the sake of knowledge try it and if any thing happen that's a cost of learning(  purchase one more M41A3 for spare)
Do you think that metal gearboxes will last?</p>

Ask him to take lots of pictures and video, it will make for a great post!


As for the gearboxes, if properly broken in they will last a while but how long with just bushings and not bearings? We shall see with his project!

 I will not only ask him but I  purchase that 2 speed 540 motors for him by my own( I play with you guys).
Last night he told me that he will prove his idea to all of us(by his clips) within december or early of jan10,I DO WANT TO KNOW REALLY.
Let's wait and see. Oh before I forget......His user name is  " navasamut"

Hi Tankers,

I've been unable to play for the first few months of the year so have not been able to try the 8 tooth pinions on my tank untill recently as suggested by Swathdiver. Now my problems are resolved, or nearly so, I have been able to get back to tank driving.

I hope this information will be of help to anybody purchasing a Heng Long Tiger 1 and a KV-1 and want them to run at scale speed. Fitting the 8 tooth pinion was not as straightforward as I thought, it required modifying the gearbox cage. The 8 tooth is of course is a smaller diameter than the standard 10 tooth so won't make contact with the drive cog. I chose the screw hole furthest from the drive cog centre and elongated it by about 3mm. I also had to file away about 1mm at lower edge of the large hole that accomodates the motor's shoulder. This allows the motor to swivel on the second fixing hole. Just like the fanbelt adjustment on the car. When locking the motor in place, adjust untill it rotates as smooth as possible.

The result of this is that my HL Tiger with Mabuchi silver cap motors, standard metal gears, 8 tooth pinion driving plastic tracks has a top road speed of  1.40 mph or a scale speed of 22.5 mph. which is pretty close to the quoted top speed of 24mph. I wonder if the real thing was measured empty or fully loaded?

The KV-1 has a quoted speed of 22mph but that is for the original 1939 model. The Heng Long KV-1 is the e version that has four and a half tons of aplique armour added. After a lot of research I have found a source that quotes this model as 18mph top speed. As the KV-2 was only 15mph and all these models had no upgrades to the engine I would say that this sounds about right.

I first tried the 8 tooth conversion as on the Tiger, this produced a scale speed of 24mph. After trying a couple of different motors without much success I purchased the metal 3/1 reduction gears with black capped motors. This moves the KV-1 at a top speed of about 1.12 mph or 18mph. Spot on!

My next project is to get the turrets to rotate at the correct speed. They both run through the nearly 360 decrees at about 16 seconds when it should be nearer 30 seconds. Has anybody tried this?

Regards