BAT battle
09-23-2007 | 02:52 AM
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From: Los Altos,
CA
BAT battle
Today my brother Eric and I were invited up to Bay Area Tankers' battle at Jacques Littlefield's battlefield. Dan and Neal are members of my model warship combat club as well as BAT and Kelly's Heroes. I've attended a tank battle with them before, and ran some tanks then, and Dan was kind enough to provide Eric and I with a pair of Shermans to run for the day. This battle sounded particularly exciting because the guys from southern California were coming up to join BAT in a two day tank-fest. Unfortunately I'm working on Sunday, so I can't make it for tomorrow, but I had a blast today.
Today started off cold, cloudy, and rainy, though it was only a light sprinkle when we arrived at the battle site. The first order of events was a quick look at Jacques' shop, where a Panther and Sherman Jumbo were being restored. I started snapping photos, though I haven't looked at them yet. Everyone then moved on to Jacques' museum (with a propeller from the RMS Lusitania in the parking lot) for a tour. There was one WW2 veteran among the crowd who had fought in tank destroyers (one in the museum was the same type he used to use, though I forgot which one it was). The tour went through four buildings with filled with tanks. I saw everything from a WW1 American 6-ton tank to a French scout car with two front ends (quicker to retreat with) to Russian armor captured from Iraqis during the first Gulf War. It was impressive, and really gave me a sense of the scale of the 1/16 scale models, just like a visit to the USS Texas gave me a sense of scale of the 1/144 combat warships that I build and battle. I saw pock marks on the armor of the American tank, which were from bullets fired at each plate to test if it was hard enough: if the bullets didn't go through, it was used. I saw a tiny 1/2" hole in the stern of an Israeli tank from the Egyptian RPG that took out it's transmission, and heard that that tank was lost along with 53 others in less than 10 minutes in a cavalry charge without infantry support. I took a close look at the tiny Locust tank and the giant Conqueror tank. I had a blast! The last time I had been to the museum was about ten years ago with a boy scout troop, and I enjoyed seeing everything again with a better understanding of what I was looking at. Unfortunately my camera ran out of batteries near the end of the tour, so I couldn't take photos of the battle area, the model tanks, or the battle. On a better note, it stopped raining and was dry for the rest of the day.
After the tour, everyone took a break for lunch. Hot dogs, burgers, green salad, potato salad, fried rice, and other dishes were handed out in sufficient quantity by BAT members to keep everyone fat and happy. We then moved down to the battle area and brought out the tanks. There were lots of tanks, from the usual Panthers, Tigers, King Tigers, Shermans, and Pershings, to some unusual ones. I saw a KV-1, an early cast-hull Sherman or two, a Kubelwagon, and a recovery vehicle and trailer (I think it was an M26A1, like in Jacques' collection). There was also a 1/6 Stuart, King Tiger, and a German scout car that showed up to show off.
I forgot to mention the battlefield, which looked very good. It was hard packed dirt with a stream going through the middle. Yes, a stream, filled with water, which provided incentive to not fall off the bridges (which I did, but fortunately the water didn't harm the tank or the apple which was fully submerged). One side of the stream had a small town with several detailed buildings, while the other had more trees and a high ridge. There were three bridges, with one on each side and one in the middle. There were several knocked out tanks strewn about the battlefield, including a Panzer IV, Tiger, and Sturmtiger. The dirt had dried a little, so there wasn't too much mud, and there were no leaves to be found in the whole battle area that could get caught in tracks. Overall, I was very impressed.
Before the battling officially began, there was a free-run testing period, with no particular rules. I discovered that neither of the Shermans Eric and I were lent had turret rotation, and one made nasty grinding noises and was very slow when turning (it was nicknamed "Grinder" ). It was all fun and games driving my Sherman around until I heard someone testing their cannon. Then I went on the attack. What followed was a free-form battle with no rules. You fought until you were dead, then you could go again once the tank restarted. At one point I had a one on one duel with a Leopard 2, but most of the time I paired up with Eric to battle any and all comers. Our favorite tactic was to form a crossfire with a single enemy tank, while staying separate from each other. If we stuck too close together, a single shot would hit us both, but by staying about 90* apart from my brother relative to the victim, we could both fire on him without fear of hitting a friendly while only one of us could get hit in return.
Eventually, the battle was organized into Axis and Allies, with 5-6 people per team. My friend Neal ran a T-34 with Eric and my Shermans, and an ever changing mixture of light tanks, Shermans and Pershings. The Axis had a Panzer 3 and a mix of Tigers, King Tigers, and Panthers. Neal, Eric, and I formed a squadron that operated together, while the rest of the team filled in the other side of the battlefield. In the first round of fighting, my squadron played a very slow, boring, defensive game at the edge of the city, but slow heavy tanks with many hits picked apart our weakly defended medium tanks, then mopped up the rest of our Allies. The next round saw a change of plan. Since the T-34 and Sherman were both fast suckers with only medium defence, my squadron decided to play offense. We started the battle with a fast charge across the more open side bridge, and hit the heavy German tanks as fast as possible to throw them off balance and put as many hits on them as possible before we were knocked out. Round three saw a repeat of the strategy, with similar success (my squadron got a medium and two heavy tanks before being eliminated, and our allies finished the job). Since this style of fast, mobile play was much more fun, and slightly more successful, I stuck with it for the rest of the day. It wasn't always successful, and we occasionally lost when the Germans put up a strong initial resistance to our charge.
Eventually, Dan had to go and took the Shermans I was borrowing with him, and that ended the organized battles. Afterwards there was more free-run time and a bit more free-form battling, but I had to go soon, too. Overall, I had a blast. I enjoyed the museum and the battling. I especially enjoyed the free-form battling, because it didn't end with your death. I would like to see a 15-20 minute battle where you simply keep track of how many times you were killed then restart and go back out to fight again. This is how the 1/6 guys at www.rctankcombat.com do their battles, and it seems like a more fun system to me. I also noticed that many people have problems with their batteries. While the Shermans Eric and I borrowed could run for a couple hours on a single pack, other tanks seemed to run out of gas after 20-30 minutes. Is this a common problem? One final thing that marred the battle was when my Sherman was registering hits but didn't slow down or get knocked out even after seven hits (some guys called this Testing Mode). I did not touch the inside of the tank, so I don't know how this happened, but it drew some complaints. I saw this happen to one other tank. Has this happened to other people before? Does it happen often?
It seems I wrote for so long that tomorrow became today. I will be busy lifeguarding at Raging Waters (last day of the season) so I won't be attending the second day of battling.
Today started off cold, cloudy, and rainy, though it was only a light sprinkle when we arrived at the battle site. The first order of events was a quick look at Jacques' shop, where a Panther and Sherman Jumbo were being restored. I started snapping photos, though I haven't looked at them yet. Everyone then moved on to Jacques' museum (with a propeller from the RMS Lusitania in the parking lot) for a tour. There was one WW2 veteran among the crowd who had fought in tank destroyers (one in the museum was the same type he used to use, though I forgot which one it was). The tour went through four buildings with filled with tanks. I saw everything from a WW1 American 6-ton tank to a French scout car with two front ends (quicker to retreat with) to Russian armor captured from Iraqis during the first Gulf War. It was impressive, and really gave me a sense of the scale of the 1/16 scale models, just like a visit to the USS Texas gave me a sense of scale of the 1/144 combat warships that I build and battle. I saw pock marks on the armor of the American tank, which were from bullets fired at each plate to test if it was hard enough: if the bullets didn't go through, it was used. I saw a tiny 1/2" hole in the stern of an Israeli tank from the Egyptian RPG that took out it's transmission, and heard that that tank was lost along with 53 others in less than 10 minutes in a cavalry charge without infantry support. I took a close look at the tiny Locust tank and the giant Conqueror tank. I had a blast! The last time I had been to the museum was about ten years ago with a boy scout troop, and I enjoyed seeing everything again with a better understanding of what I was looking at. Unfortunately my camera ran out of batteries near the end of the tour, so I couldn't take photos of the battle area, the model tanks, or the battle. On a better note, it stopped raining and was dry for the rest of the day.
After the tour, everyone took a break for lunch. Hot dogs, burgers, green salad, potato salad, fried rice, and other dishes were handed out in sufficient quantity by BAT members to keep everyone fat and happy. We then moved down to the battle area and brought out the tanks. There were lots of tanks, from the usual Panthers, Tigers, King Tigers, Shermans, and Pershings, to some unusual ones. I saw a KV-1, an early cast-hull Sherman or two, a Kubelwagon, and a recovery vehicle and trailer (I think it was an M26A1, like in Jacques' collection). There was also a 1/6 Stuart, King Tiger, and a German scout car that showed up to show off.
I forgot to mention the battlefield, which looked very good. It was hard packed dirt with a stream going through the middle. Yes, a stream, filled with water, which provided incentive to not fall off the bridges (which I did, but fortunately the water didn't harm the tank or the apple which was fully submerged). One side of the stream had a small town with several detailed buildings, while the other had more trees and a high ridge. There were three bridges, with one on each side and one in the middle. There were several knocked out tanks strewn about the battlefield, including a Panzer IV, Tiger, and Sturmtiger. The dirt had dried a little, so there wasn't too much mud, and there were no leaves to be found in the whole battle area that could get caught in tracks. Overall, I was very impressed.
Before the battling officially began, there was a free-run testing period, with no particular rules. I discovered that neither of the Shermans Eric and I were lent had turret rotation, and one made nasty grinding noises and was very slow when turning (it was nicknamed "Grinder" ). It was all fun and games driving my Sherman around until I heard someone testing their cannon. Then I went on the attack. What followed was a free-form battle with no rules. You fought until you were dead, then you could go again once the tank restarted. At one point I had a one on one duel with a Leopard 2, but most of the time I paired up with Eric to battle any and all comers. Our favorite tactic was to form a crossfire with a single enemy tank, while staying separate from each other. If we stuck too close together, a single shot would hit us both, but by staying about 90* apart from my brother relative to the victim, we could both fire on him without fear of hitting a friendly while only one of us could get hit in return.
Eventually, the battle was organized into Axis and Allies, with 5-6 people per team. My friend Neal ran a T-34 with Eric and my Shermans, and an ever changing mixture of light tanks, Shermans and Pershings. The Axis had a Panzer 3 and a mix of Tigers, King Tigers, and Panthers. Neal, Eric, and I formed a squadron that operated together, while the rest of the team filled in the other side of the battlefield. In the first round of fighting, my squadron played a very slow, boring, defensive game at the edge of the city, but slow heavy tanks with many hits picked apart our weakly defended medium tanks, then mopped up the rest of our Allies. The next round saw a change of plan. Since the T-34 and Sherman were both fast suckers with only medium defence, my squadron decided to play offense. We started the battle with a fast charge across the more open side bridge, and hit the heavy German tanks as fast as possible to throw them off balance and put as many hits on them as possible before we were knocked out. Round three saw a repeat of the strategy, with similar success (my squadron got a medium and two heavy tanks before being eliminated, and our allies finished the job). Since this style of fast, mobile play was much more fun, and slightly more successful, I stuck with it for the rest of the day. It wasn't always successful, and we occasionally lost when the Germans put up a strong initial resistance to our charge.
Eventually, Dan had to go and took the Shermans I was borrowing with him, and that ended the organized battles. Afterwards there was more free-run time and a bit more free-form battling, but I had to go soon, too. Overall, I had a blast. I enjoyed the museum and the battling. I especially enjoyed the free-form battling, because it didn't end with your death. I would like to see a 15-20 minute battle where you simply keep track of how many times you were killed then restart and go back out to fight again. This is how the 1/6 guys at www.rctankcombat.com do their battles, and it seems like a more fun system to me. I also noticed that many people have problems with their batteries. While the Shermans Eric and I borrowed could run for a couple hours on a single pack, other tanks seemed to run out of gas after 20-30 minutes. Is this a common problem? One final thing that marred the battle was when my Sherman was registering hits but didn't slow down or get knocked out even after seven hits (some guys called this Testing Mode). I did not touch the inside of the tank, so I don't know how this happened, but it drew some complaints. I saw this happen to one other tank. Has this happened to other people before? Does it happen often?
It seems I wrote for so long that tomorrow became today. I will be busy lifeguarding at Raging Waters (last day of the season) so I won't be attending the second day of battling.
09-23-2007 | 12:33 PM
#3
RE: BAT battle
Sounds like you had a great time! Thanks for the great write up. S.C.A.T. was invited, but I was one of the ones who couldn't make it.
The 'Testing Mode' issue does come up from time to time. The guys at H.E.A.T. are doing some detailed research into why it can happen. One of the main causes seems to be the battery - either when it is low, or the Tamiya plugs momentarily short out - both seem to allow the electronics to reset. Our club members who have switched to Deans Connectors think they help eliminate the problem.
The 'Testing Mode' issue does come up from time to time. The guys at H.E.A.T. are doing some detailed research into why it can happen. One of the main causes seems to be the battery - either when it is low, or the Tamiya plugs momentarily short out - both seem to allow the electronics to reset. Our club members who have switched to Deans Connectors think they help eliminate the problem.
09-24-2007 | 12:34 PM
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From: Alta Loma,
CA
RE: BAT battle
Nice after actions report!
You and Eric did a great job out on the battle field; I thought the two Shermans belonged to you guys. The test mode phantom struck a number of times over the weekend. My Hen Long, Tamiya modified PZ III was a victim once and it has dean connectors and had a fresh batterie. I swithed the tank off and on and it was fine the rest of the weekend.
BAT did a great job on the battle field; as soon as I get a chance I will send photos to Kevin for the SCAT web site.
You and Eric did a great job out on the battle field; I thought the two Shermans belonged to you guys. The test mode phantom struck a number of times over the weekend. My Hen Long, Tamiya modified PZ III was a victim once and it has dean connectors and had a fresh batterie. I swithed the tank off and on and it was fine the rest of the weekend.
BAT did a great job on the battle field; as soon as I get a chance I will send photos to Kevin for the SCAT web site.
09-24-2007 | 06:35 PM
#7
RE: BAT battle
I've had my Sherman drop into "testing" mode by turning the TX on and off while the tank is on. I was horsing around in my living room with a family member but my TX battery was low, so I'd shut off the TX for the 15s it took for the tank to restart after dying, and I noticed that if I left it off for too long, once it woke up it would be in "testing" mode.
So, if turning the TX off will do it, loss of radio signal would probably also do it (from the RX/DMD's perspective, it's the same thing).
D.
So, if turning the TX off will do it, loss of radio signal would probably also do it (from the RX/DMD's perspective, it's the same thing).
D.
09-25-2007 | 02:22 PM
#10
RE: BAT battle
First picts coming in......... including Tiff Williams VVS Shermans.
See the S.C.A.T. website for more
http://web.mac.com/ksoc/S.C.A.T._Pho...A.T._2007.html
UPDATE - More Panther Picts added
See the S.C.A.T. website for more
http://web.mac.com/ksoc/S.C.A.T._Pho...A.T._2007.html
UPDATE - More Panther Picts added
