Dishmop

Need help. Please.

Have just bought a Tiger 1 and was not impressed with the smoke unit.
Have now aquired a proportional speed/smoke unit and..........

I have no idea how to wire it up.

Any help.

Must justify expence to wife.

wackywheelz

Where did you get the proportional smoker unit? is it a clear or pinky/orange-clear one? What was the other one before that?

Dishmop

Old Unit.



New Unit

New one has 2 red 2 black and a red and black to a plug.

Old one just has 1 red 1 black

wackywheelz

you didnt overfill it with oil?

is the new one a different shape?

pattoncommander

smoke units seem to be an all around problem. The unit in my Pz III that I converted to the Jap 97 really put out some nice smoke....but it was eating up my batteries like crazy. [:@]I removed the unit and have had no further problems.

Been thinking about using this unit with a 9V battery under my knocked out T-34 for display. Whatchya think Wackywheelz? Think it would work? Been reading about Lionel Choo Choo smoke generators that do well, but as long as i have this unit.... ??

wackywheelz

by the looks of it, the 4 lots of wires (two red, two black) coming out the top/front of the PCB go to the motors for "sense" of how many RPM the motors are at (to figure out how much smoke to put out) while the single set of red/black coming from the middle of the board is for power

wackywheelz

underneath where the two sets of red/blacks go into the board (with 2pin white plugs) does it have plugs on the bottom of the smoker PCB (circuit board) -- if so, plug your motors in there (if you have a motor with plugs) and then the two red/blacks with plugs from the smoker go to SIP2 and SIP3 if you have an RX14 S&S main function board. If not, report back

borealis

I have a prop smoke board, but the seller told me to wire the black/white couples without plugs directly to the motors, in parallel with the wires coming from the board.
The wires with plug go into the smoker plug on the main board as usual.
When I tested it before burning the tx14 board, it worked fine, but when motors were still the smoke pump didn't move at all, which sounded strange.
Anyway, as I put some throttle, the smoke pump started moving and pumpin smoke proportionally to the throttle applied.
But after one day of test the board started smoking (the fets burned), therefore I am not 100% sure I did the connections right.
I am going to test it again with a tx13 within some days.

Dishmop

As you can see from the pic the wiring is nothing like that.

The seller has has now sent me a pic of where the red/black wires should be soldered to but hasnt responded as to where the plug fits.

wackywheelz

its hard to make out the pic, how many have plugs etc.

If theres a plug to plug in, then it goes to DP2 (RX14 board) as seen [link=http://members.iinet.net.au/~wackywheelz/tanks/hobbyhavoc/ssupgrade/pershing/mainboard.jpg]here[/link]

blitzkrieg65

whacky,

I think he hooked it up correctly, the plug goes to the board to location you have shown and if it was working at all he had the plug in the correct spot! As long as Dishmop had pulled each pair of the smoker units wires that connect to the individual motors, one pair that is Red & Black, the other pair that is Red and Black and Did not cross the pairs even! Then even if dishmop hooked up the polarity wrong it should still work and not smoke the main board! The descritiion he gave on how it functioned sounds just like mine and its been working fine, I have had two of the new boards RX14 and they both smoked nothing to do with the a smoker I didn't even have a smoke at that time! So I ordered 5 of the RX 13 from Tank Zone ( I may have got the last ones) and my porprtional smoker is woking fine off of the old boards, and of course I have added a larger heat sink it is a must!

The Blitz

wackywheelz

Were your RX14's in the last few weeks? theres been a few come out of MATO with dodgy daughterboards. Were your failures FET related?

blitzkrieg65

It was about six weeks ago, and yes one was in the fet area and the other was in DOA, and no smoke, and i did try that one with a new reciever board, or do you mean one of the daughter boards that connect to the RX14?

wackywheelz

yes, the main daughterboard with FETs that control the motors (TK-2020-A)

blitzkrieg65

Well it could be that but it is still dead, Mato agreed to replace it if I returned it. But then the cost of shipping is not worth it for one board, I did keep it for parts knowing that eventually the RX-13 will no longer be available!

Dishmop

This is how I have been told to solder the 4 wires which have bare ends but he doesnt know where the red/black with the plug goes.

To be honest, when I removed the old unit I just cut the wire so there may be a plug on the end of the wires which are left inside the tank.

Any body know how to make black smoke, as I am sure that a Tiger would not conform to smoke emission regulations!!!!!!


Update......

Have just removed main board and as I am sure you all know, yes, the bare wire I left after cutting do go to a plug on the underside of the board.

Now all I have to decypher is excactly which are the points I have to solder unto because the yellow number are printed in just the wrong place.

Dishmop

Think I have worked this out now.

The pic shows where I have to solder the wire to but there are white wires on that board which I do not have on mine.

The 2 red and 2 black wires from the board go to the two motors.
Therefore it is my assumption that the wire form the smoke unit would connect to these wires??????

borealis

That connection is exactly a parallel connection to the motors. That means using the motor drive current to drive the smoker too.

I have one question about how it works:

- What if the smoker switch is turned off? What is the effect of applying throttle? There is no more a switch between the board and the smoker with that kind of connection.

- What if the smoker switch is ON but NO THROTTLE is applied? Does the pump move at all?

wackywheelz

I dunno what happened to my post in here, but here re-goes:

The Tiger didnt smoke much anyway - one guy on here had his smoking like it was on fire (not you Perry! ) .

The bare wires to be soldered to the main board are just for "sense" of movement - no input from motors = smoker idles.

For smoker power and on/off, the plug must be plugged into the board. If you have RX13, I'm not sure if it has plugs? (all my S&S are RX14's which have plugs for everything)

borealis

Sure, the tx13 has a plug (same place than the 14), but when I tested it with the tx14 board, I could not stop the pump from moving (when throttle was applied), whatever position the switch was.
That's why am I asking, I want to understand if my board was totally defective (before burning) or if it's working as intended.

So, you confirm that switching the smoker off the pump does not move under any circumstance?
And that there is no "idle" pumping when the tank is still (and smoker on)?

Dishmop

So I could actually solder the wires to the motors?

blitzkrieg65

Dishmop,

That is what I did and it works great! And yes there is intermitent time when the pump will come on even if the switch is off but the once the board is warm it will stay off if the switch is off!

Borealis if you want you can add a multi connection switch that turns off all of the ground lines to the smoker unit!

The Blitz

Dishmop

Done it all now.

As The Blitz says, the unit only starts up once the tank is ready to roll.

Not impressed with the amount of smoke at the moment but the battery now needs a recharge.

How many hands do the people have who put these things together???

pattoncommander

OK question on smokers. One I took out of a tank ate up batteries like crazy but put out a good volume of smoke..I have another that does OK but minimal smoke. Reading some of the FAQs I removed the wick tucked that blocked smoke production on some and resealed the unit but now it won't smoke at all. Should part of the wadding be put back in? I just want the smoker to put in my knocked out T-34. A trial test really looked neat with smoke coming out the engine compartment and driver's hatch, just the noise bothers. I have it wired straight to a 1700 battery thru the small board that is on it. ???????[&o][&o].

blitzkrieg65

Pattoncomander

The wadding should be covering the eliment fully at the same time keeping it low so your pump can push the smoke off of the top of your eliment & wadding. If you have plugged it straight into the battery and had the eliment exposed you may have blown the eliment!
Unless someone can correct me, I believe that the unit it has to run through the smoker circuit on they main board. HL is using a transistor to regulate or intensify the votage through the heating eliment! Not exactly sure why, I am still trying to get a good grasp on the circuitry myself, so if someone wants to chime in help us fill in the blanks? Oh and so far the porportional unit from TankZone is not too bad but like Dishmop says smoke is about the same as a good working older unit!

I have the SCAT battle that I am furiously trying to get a couple of tanks ready for with some Tamiya compatible battle sytems! But the dang smoker is a pet peave of mind as well! It is on my list to conquer but will be glad to not to proud to borrow from other ideas who have conquered it already! I have a Pershing that I named "smokey" becuase it has smoked so many boards and it is just waiting to be the experimental smoke machine!


The Blitz

This is the fun kind of stress!