I have a question on the new Stug III... specifically the figures that came with it...ie. the two tankers with the puppy dog. If I'm not mistaken didn't these same figures once come with an old Tamiya 1/35 scale kit..?? I seem to remember seeing or hearing something about this somewhere, but danged if I can remeber where.[:@] Anybody got pics or a link to these figures finished and painted....??

Thanks.[8D]

I would like to know what's 'up' with those two - so odd. And yes they seem to be knock offs of figures from an old Tamy kit, and they didn't make sense there either!

you mean these ones ???

Yep... those are them...

They came in this kit: http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10000264

WOW, great... thanks.[8D] I was pretty sure these were from a Tamiya kit. Notice that the nomenclature (ie. Sturmgeschutz III Ausf. G Sdkfz. 142/1, fruhe version) on the Tamiya box is virtually identical to that on the HL Stug box..?? Interesting... Chinese reverse engineering at it's very best eh...?? LOL...

Can you post a pic of the HL Stug box?

Chinese manufactures have proven that they don't give a damn about copyright and I doubt such laws exist in a communist country. But I guess we shouldn't complain too much... [:-]

Sure, no problem. OK, the box art on the HL Stug is different, but the nomenclature is the same, and the figures look pretty much identical (albeit scaled up) to me..?? For what it's worth, Ive heard that many (most..?) of HL's tanks are "reverse engineered" versions of Tamiya models, for example the Tiger I... the flipped mantlet and other minor variations being somewhat feeble attempts at avoiding outright coyright infringement issues.

I don't buy this argument. Sure they look the same, why wouldn't they. The rest of the parts are molded different. I suspect they would use a 3 d model as a guide. Why wouldn't they?

The figures though. Now there you got a point.

So ... the figures do come with HL Stug III?

How difficult would it be to convert the dog into a cat?

Just joking as I realise I need to put some food out for my "third Tiger".

Not that I'll be allowed to forget.

I'm not making any argument...that seems to be your forte. I said, and I quote..I've heard many are based on Tamiyas models..

Actually, I've seen them use 1/35 Tamiya & Dragon kits in addition to a 1/16 Tamiya KT for reference models along with plans. Their designer then draws in AutoCAD, probably SolidWorks or similar 3D program. This is China, home of the copycat. Just like with the model boats & planes one sees at the trade shows, I'd not be surprised that 90% of what's produced here isn't copied from someone else.

The Chinese have never recognized the concept of copyright. This is why the US and many other countries refused to supply them with computer chips and other similar technology for many years, as they new full well that it would result in copying, mass production and loss of business/profit to the original owners.
However, many of the restrictions that were applied with regard to exporting technology to China have been lifted or simply eroded into none-existence.
Which is why we can now buy almost any item of an electrical/technological nature, including model tanks, at a much cheaper price than would previously have been possible.

So endeth the lesson in global economics
John

The Chinese is only part of the problem (if you would call it a problem). If there's no demand for cheap knock-offs, then China wouldn't make knock-off items.

But alas, a lot of people are willing to turn a blind eye, or sometimes even defend it, to save a buck or two.

*Edit* Those figures are extremely creepy-looking, by the way.

I think some better hands, heads with a new dog and it's good to go.

So it seems there is some truth after all to the idea that more than a few of HL's tanks have at least a partial Tamiya pedigree... Hardly surprising, and I have heard pretty much the same thing regarding the static models from 21st Century Toys whose models are also manufactured in China.

Had a talk with a Chinese copyright lawyer a bit ago, and asked them about the copying of.....everything. Their philosophy is that "ideas are public property". This extends to much more than copying a mold, or whatever. To them, it's not wrong to copy someone else's idea or product. Particularly for ideas, it's open season. Seems wrong to us, but then who hasn't copied software or media, with whatever rationalization fits.

And our patents laws or any others countires are not enforced in China! Also all of these tanks are what is considered prior art, being the real tanks themself! If the individual or group who designed the tank does not have a patent on the shape, or ( design patent ) it can be copied and sold! And lets say they did, a patent in US is only good for 30 years.

The Blitz

That's fine for their manufacturing industry but it will hit them HARD when they try their hand at copyable digital media. I suppose that explains why the chinese software industry is non-existent! Without copyright law and intellectual property rights, we simply wouldn't have personal computers, the internet, digital movies or anything else.

I also have had conversations with a retailer here who has travelled to China to make contacts with their factories. Their philosophy is to do things quick - put out the product before others can, and cash in for that period until others make copies, then move on.

I'm not an advocate, but it is interesting to actually know the reasoning behind the differences. Sorry for the topic drift...

I suspected as much. I suppose that's why we don't associate China with any quality brands ('cept HL of course!). I can't think of anything to come out of there other than knock-offs of foreign products. This WILL come back to bite them I'm sure.

But as I've said...cheap tanks! yay!

You are right. I have had a look at the 1/35 scale Tamiya stug and Heng long upscaled it and copied everything about it. Every part and the crew men have all be upscaled from a Tamiya parts tree. I think I owe Pcomm an apology. This Stug, without a doubt it is an exact copy of the Tamiya 1/35 offering

Sorry if I come across as being argumentative. I do like a good debate. I find it entertaining, but if you don't know that about me then yes, I do tend to stir the pot. No harm intended.

Everybody's been there once or twice before.