What are the differences between the Tamiya KT and the Tamiya Panther kits? Is it just new vs old molds that make the Panther prices so much higher, or are there noticible improvements? I'm really biting at the bit to snatch a Tamiya and I am debating between these two models. The $125 price difference at AAF is certainly a factor as is the availability of a HL Panther. Is the KT the full Tamiya wet your pants experience or due I need to jump to the $700 kits?

KT has been around for many years, originally it was not FO, used a double clutch drive with a single motor. When they FO'd it some years ago, they just moded the hull and turret as needed to handle the extra goodies, no improvement in detail. KT also needs some upgrades to be a really strong fighter. It was quite well detailed for when it came out, some 30 years ago, and set the standard for a ruged tank with an excellent hull and suspension system.
As a first Tam, go for the Panther. Pretty well detailed OTB, and a very strong runner and fighter OTB. Tons of details etc you CAN add, but not if you don't want to. Only thing you got to do in the build is get the DP05 Main Gun Sleeve, as Tam screwed up on the mantlet and there is too much clearance between the main tube and the mantlet, giving some wobble when driving and firing. It's available here:
http://www.etoarmour.com/product_det...productID=DP05
Aside from that, it's a pretty straight forward build and one of the most reliable tanks out there.
Sev

Thanks Servo. I'll start saving the extra cash for a higher end Tamiya. Maybe I'll just take the plunge and grab a Leo, crossing my fingers that the wife will never know the real price and that having the ultimate kit will cure me from needing more. (not gonna happen but it sounds good)

I really like your Russian Panther.

Yup, Tamiya can't be beat for the money. HL is toy grade which of course with some work and money you can turn in to a pretty nice tank. Tamiya is upper end hobby grade. You will readily see the difference.
Panther is my wife's personal ride, that one and a T34/85. Once you are really hooked on the Tamiyas, here's the next level. There is no cure for the addiction, by the by.

I really enjoy my $500 Asiatam Heng Longs, but must see for myself what all the fuss is over the Tamiyas. I'm very tempted to just drop the $275 for Tamiya electronics in my KV, but it would be nice to build a kit from scratch. Make my $$$ go a bit further.

So is the only metal on a Tam Panther the bathtub? My biggest hangup is dropping $700 to throw away anything plastic below the fenders and then replacing it with really expensive metal parts. Why are 3rd party metal parts so much more for the same dang thing that you buy for an HL?

No, on the Panther the suspension arms, lower hull, suspension torsion bars, retainers for same, drive sprockets, idlers, idler axels and parts therefore including the idler adjustment system, and many other parts are metal. Wheels have bushings in them to ride on the metal axel, which is held in the suspension arm with a set screw. You can easily exchange the bushings for bearings before you build the wheels. Wheels are a tough type of plastic with rubber tyres. Bearings in the wheels are highly recommended to cut down on the little rolling resistance any tank has. However, you must do it on the Panther before you build the wheels, which glue together. KT wheels bolt together, and the wheel discs themselves are again metal.

Have a couple pics. One is a Panther interior. Ignore the TU's, that's a pair of heavy duty competition TU's modified to fit the Panther. Other photo is the interior of the Jagdtiger with an aftermarket suspension system, but it bolts right in to the existing Tamiya suspension rails, and you can see the metal suspension arm bolsters bolted to the metal hull, thru which the metal suspension arms come in to the hull to be joined with the stock torsion bars. The JT, as is the Panther, are fighters, and have many mods to suspension, TU's, etc for the all out competitions I participate in.

This is a thread about the difference between a Tamiya KT and a Panther, not so sure why the "toy grade" HL product had to be brought up

Pcsguy88. You are doing the right thing. You need to buy one Tamiya and see for yourself how much more overall enjoyment you get out of the final build. Keep on open mind, and just determine what do you find most rewarding about this hobby. Once I bought a Tamiya I came to understand the quality and value they present, and I quit ranting on here about their high price, because in the end they offered fair value IMO.

However I don't find them as challenging. It is a kit, everything is there and you put it together. What upgrades you need are readily available, and there is not much tinkering to do. You put it together just like the instructions say and it works fine. Good product.

For me I like to tinker, scratchbuild and improvise. For me the Heng Longs offer that opportunity at a low price. With that in mind I am sure that is why there are so many Tamiya Sherman Fans. What made that tank popular was not the fact is was a great Tamiya kit, but the fact you NEEDED to kitbash and improvise to get it to look different then it came stock. Some people enjoy this part of the hobby immensly, so a shake the box, everything you need kit may not necessarily be as much fun. It all depends on you. Only you can decide what it is about this hobby that you enjoy most. You will then lean to the product that does that for you. So Buy a Tamiya, build it and run it and then let your hobby dollars go to the place that give you the most enjoyment
In the end only you know what you like best. Some people don't seem to understand that this isn't just about money, or out of the box quality for some of us. It is about overall satisfaction in the result, and yes depending on the individual, a Toy heng long can give you more of that then a Tamiya kit, and too be fair, the flip side could also be true. I have heard some people throwing away their Heng Longs in the garbage, so obviously those types of individual did not get much hobby satisfaction out of their Heng Long purchase. If something ends up in the garbage it doesn't matter how much you spent on it, it was too much.

Sorry for the rant. There are a couple of phrases that set me off, one is "Toy like Heng Long" and "overly priced Tamiya" Both of these are very subjective, and I feel compelled to debate either remark when they are presented as negatives.

Oh I see you can take a Tamiya kit and spend extra to upgrade the TU and Suspension too. So all the upgrade fun isn't just limited to the Heng Long. I stand corrected.

The difference is you generally don't have to upgrade a Tamiya unless you want to. You've seen my sight, you know what's there. You can build the Tam OTB, just like you can run your HL OTB. There are lots of tankers from both ends of the spectrum who do both, run OTB and heavily modify and scratch build. Just look at my King photoed above. Zimmerit, aftermarket metal wheels with bearings, bearings in the idlers, the TU's are as shown in the Panther photo, suspension is same as the JT photo, idlers are moded as in the JT photo, metal tracks, on and on. The JT itself is surely no shake the box kit. Panther inside is the same as the KT, with the same mods. My tanks are fighters, pure and simple, and therefor need the strongest motive equipment and the best suspensions available.
You will notice a singular lack of PE on my tanks, reason being again they are fighters, and the tiny and fragile PE will be lost in the mud rather hurriedly. You can fight a Tamiya well OTB, but not in this rock and mud garden called home I live in now. Oh yeah, and my other current project, in addition to the Jagdtiger, is an early Panther G. He will actually get a little PE, fenders, skirts, and cleaning rod tube. JT also has PE fenders, but they will be removed before combat. Panther also has lots of NS parts on him already. He will, however, run stock TU's to see how they will hold up here. If they crap out, there's a set of the super razzle dazzle TU's built and waiting. If not, so much the better. I will be using a Turnigy chip in him, so in actuality the stock TU's may well last here.
Sev

I hear you. Which is kind of my point. "Best" can only be determined by what goals and expecatations you have for yourself. You want to build the best batlting tank, so certain things apple to you more then others.

This is not meant as a slight to Tamiya, but I did hear that the Panther was not good OTB, and this came from an owner of many Tamiya's. Are all the new kits improved now?. We all share the warts on a Heng Long, so I think it is important to be frank about what might be wrong with a Tamiya panther as well for someone who is contemplating buying one. You did mention the wobbley barrel, but there was a track, drive sproket interference issues brought up when the kit was first released. Is this a worry anymore??

Tamiya addressed the drive sprocket problem early in the run. The sprocket halves were a mm or so too shallow, to wit, the sprocket teeth bound on the inner part of the tooth hole in the track links. At first Tam produced a shim to go between the two halves, then changed the sprocket itself in subsequent production runs. My two Panthers are early ones, however I run aftermarket tracks and sprockets on them, but on one did switch back to the Tam sprocket, as the aftermarket ones were way off true, IOW they looked out of round, way out of round.
The barrel problem to the best of my knowledge is still extant. Everything works well, just there is some noticeable barrel side motion when he recoils. Daryl's little sleeve stops that. Asides from that, it's one of the best fighters OTB, and an excellent runner OTB with a straight forward relatively easy build.

That Panther hull looks very nice and the suspension is an uprade over the Asiatam. I wonder if those adjustable bars would fit in mine...

that is an Asiatam KV-1 hull not a Panther hull.

pcsguy, that I could not tell you for sure, but it looks possible. Suspension is Wecohe, as is the JT. Uses Tam TU's, suspension arms etc, idlers, DMD/TO electronics, recoil, etc. The JT kit is a bear to build, but nice when it's finished. The suspension kit is also adjustable, IOW you can set the proper ground clearance with it. Gives a very supple ride for the AFV. However, with all the room in the kit, I've still got to get two small speakers for the sound, as the Tam ones, there's no room left over with the electronics, the massive main gun trunnions and recoil, and the modified idler adjustment systems with hull cross braces for stiffening to stop hull flex, a problem with such a long AFV.

Panther G, he was talking about the earlier pics of the Panther and JT hull. JT is longer than a KT, but the length is all between the last road wheels and the idlers on the lower hull, and between the front and rear deck on the upper hull. They needed a little extra room to cram in the 12.8cm, so the upper hull where the fighting compartment goes is if memory serves about 50cm longer, enough to be noticeable. Lots of JT kits and tanks out there, but to the best of my knowledge Wecohe's is the only one of proper length commercially available. Also, on the JT the front deck is a little lower than the rear deck, noticeable with a hard look. This was to allow the 12.8 to have more depression.

Ya know, the more I look at it, the more I think the Wecohe suspension system will fit. Looking close at the photo, it looks like the suspension arms are the same as Tamiya, and if so, the kit will probably fit. Pity I'm not nearer to you, as we could try it. Lemme talk to someone I know who has both the kit and the AT KV hull. He'll try it I'm sure.

Now, a question for you on the KV hull. Are the return rollers bolted to just the plastic hull, as I see triangular cutouts in the hull for what I think are the return roller bolts.

Thanks for the update on the Tam Panther. I have heard they are excellent out on the field.

While the early release Tamiya Panther kit's, such as my kit had their share of issues, as has been mentioned above, the Panther kit tracks were also faulty, kinked, held a distorted shape and felt rubbery to the touch. So hopefully Tamiya corrected the kit track issue too.

Tossing bucks at all the mentioned issues corrected the kit problems, but pissed me off for having to do so to get the thing setup to run as well as my far cheaper to setup Tiger I.

The costly purchase and installing the Impact tracks, new Impact drive sprockets, Impact glacis plate guides to fix a poor fitting kit deck – glacis plate, Daryl Turner gearbox mount, DT barrel sleeve etc etc helped my Panther to become a silky smooth runner.

And I am happy with my Tamiya Panther G rc setup and I am now over the additional cost thing.

But for all the good things now said about the merits of the club battlefield Panther, probably, started by the Tamiya stealthy rc tank marketing reps; my Tiger IE with Bob's ETO basic gear reduction setup mounted on Tamiya stock gearboxes; sitting atop a Daryl Turner gearbox mount; running kit plastic tracks does make the basic Tamiya Tiger IE a far more agile and capable fighter than the $1275.00 after market parts improved Tamiya Panther G. LOL.

And importantly, my Tamiya Tiger IE tank cost me exactly 1/2 the cost of the Panther build.

So, if you really want a Tamiya Panther G, well, it is very cool but I think still a costly kit to build.

And if you really want to win at your club battle day: set your Sherman on "9 hits" and I just blow away the Kraut armor, if you don't cheat you are not trying.

And remember the Sherman is cheaper still to build, setup and fight than either the Tiger IE or Panther G.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year, John

Wow. Mail order brides are cheaper then that and they run great OTB.. But on a serious note, I understand the quality, but wow. I know this isn't a cheap hobby, just didn't realize the tamiya's, well some of them also need work just like the HL's. So when people say you bought an aftermarket metal tub/suspension for your HL and you are now approaching the cost of a Tam you should have just purchased the Tamiya, isn't true because they are also buying a tub/suspension because theirs wasn't up to par either, and now the tamiya is approaching the cost of a 1/6 model so then you should have just bought that, but then you need a better tub/susp for the 1/6 and now you are approaching the cost of a 1:1 Lol j/k figured I would put in my sarcastic approach.

Cheers,
Wade

Oh and BTW pcomm1 those are some sweet looking tanks

No, you do not HAVE to do the suspension etc on the Tamiyas, but you can. There are actually two available, one from Wecohe as in the photos of my tanks, and one from Schumo, much less expensive, which simply replaces the stock torsion bars with a more supple one. Wecohe suspension is a bear to adjust, but one you have it properly set, it's grand. These aftermarket suspension systems are for the Tiger 1 and 2, and Panther/Jagdpanther, as they use a prototypical torsion bar suspension.

Stock idler adjustment systems are also good, but the DP spring loaded ones are better, especially if, like in my AO, the soil is full of small rocks, aka track breakers. In some of my tanks I use the DP idler system, in some I use the stock system, and in some I use my own idler adjustment system.

Panther, I never had a problem with the stock tracks, ran them for a while on the Jagdpanther. They are strong and look good. I generally run metal tracks, especially on the competition tanks, for the weight. And never had to buy another metal tub. Don't actually know of anyone who makes one for Tam. As for the fit "issues" with the upper to lower hull, again, not problem, at least for me. The Tamiya Panther was a quicky design and production deal to beat another Panther to market..which they did, anbeit no fault of theirs. All in all, it is a good and enjoyable build, runs quite well OTB, and is hugely popular in EU and USA, and former SSSR.

Expensive as a mail order bride? Son, lemme give you a little wisdom about women: they are without a doubt THE most expensive hobby on the face of the earth, bar none. That being said, they are also the most enjoyable hobby on the face of the earth.

I hear ya, after numerous "long term" relationships and going through a divorce, expensive doesn't even fit lol. But my fiance, is and has been the most enjoyable "hobby". As far as the comments I made, was just my attempt at being funny, I know they are upgrades that are the decision of the individual and not a requirement, and on that note I can't wait to get my Tamiya Sherman and upgrade it, I just need a few more pennies and I will be set.

Rebellion, you hit the nail on the head. I hold Tamiya up high in the clouds, far superior to HL. The problem is, I really don't drive HLs, in reality, my KV should be called an Asiatam. Now that I have a Panzer III and a KV built out in similiar fashion, I'm tryng to figure out where they measure now. I know the electronics are not up to par, but less than $300 fixes that. The more I read about Tamiya, the more upgrades I hear about being considered mandatory and the lists tend to get long. I think it's safe to say HL and Tamiya upper hulls are molded very well, if not exact copies, so now I'm looking suspiciously at the lower hulls and suspension systems. Servo's suspension is nice and enough to end the debate in my head, but then he tosses in that it's 3rd party. Then the question arises whether it could bolt into the asiatam. How interesting this development is. I am curious now as to what the best $1000 battle ready tank is, radio and receiver not included. Has Asiatam made it possible to build an equal tank for the same or lower cost than a Tamiya?

Yes Servo, the return rollers do appear to be attached to plastic only, but the don't feel like it as there is no give. I have always scratched my head over that decision and can't logically with it. The only thing it does is place the bolts flush with the interior wall so the electronics tray can slide by.

Well, answering this question of Tamiya or not seems to be getting bigger, not smaller in my head. I always thought it was clear as black vs white. I think I will hold off on a Panther G until Asiatam rolls their shiny hull out and then do a detailed comparison. I would really like it Servo if you could help me part out what is considered a competition Tamiya Panther and maybe work with me to plan out an Asiatam Panther up to specs. We can figure out what upgrades are swappable between the two. I do not mind dropping $1k into an Asiatam Panther if the end result is better or equal to a $1k Tamiya only because I have not owned a Tamiya yet and I already have 2 $500 HL/Asiatams. If anyone has a competition ready Tamiya KV, we could do the experiment with that model since I already own it and just need to work on the electronics side.

This is not an attempt to compare HL vs Tamiya guys. This is my attempt to build the best $1,000 tank. Like in paintball, you buy the stock gun, then upgrade every part in it. If the upgrades are the same in quality as the upgrades to the Tamiya, then it's time to start asking where the best starting point is.

pcsguy88,


I know what you mean about the paintball gun, I used to be into that a few years back, and yes I bought a spyder can't remember who made it, but basically upgraded everything until it surpassed some of the guns I was eyeballing but couldn't afford at the time. You say asiatam will be releasing a lower hull for the panther? Interesting, because as far as an axis battle tank is concerned I had been planning on a HL panther in the future w/dbc/dbu, but maybe depending on pricing the asiatam with HL upper hull, and maybe elmod or tamiya electronics might be the way to go, and as others have stated it would be nice if tamiya elec would drop in price, heck if you price out the sherman innards it basically tallies around $435 for the dmd mfu and dmd control unit I assume you would need both, well for a little more you have the whole tank

Rebellion, no word on a Panther hull from Asiatam yet, but with the Jagd and the Panther out now, I can't see them not doing one. You can get the DMD and MFU for about $265 plus shipping, which is what started this whole thought process in my head. I too own a Spyder and I think the only part that says spyder is the body of the gun. How interesting would it be if RC tanking has hit the level where you can build a superior tank with 3rd party parts that all bolt together flawlessly? That would really shake up this hobby and produce a new generation of tweakers.

I'll try to keep my wallet in my pocket a bit longer on the Panther until confirmation of an Asiatam hull is announced and I can buy it together with the metal tracks. When purchased that way, it's about $400 out of the gate, then you start on gearboxes, etc...

Where can you get a DMD and MFU for that price? Looks attractive. Is it one of those $150 shipping things?
Perry