Okay,

I'm stumped. I'm getting my notes and images together for the build of Late model Tiger 312. I've elected that once I begin I will use Mr. Surfacer to get the proper effect on the armor. I am unable to find a reliable picture of where the texture should end. I know the top of the hull and the turret for sure. What about engine covers? Hatches? Late cupola? Barrel sleve?

Anyone get me unstuck?

Thanks

Don

I don't know what your talking about.. That has got me curious. What texture?

The rough armor texture. I read about it in "The Modeller's Guide to the Tiger Tank." It is very subtle but it is there.

I think it would add the right effect to give the areas a look of real armor.

Best

Don

Is this what your looking for?
http://the.shadock.free.fr/Surviving_Tigers.pdf

From what I can tell, it's just random bubbling and pitting. Should be fairly easy to accomplish.

I think he means the "rough" finish that replicates the one found on cast steel. YHR or Swath would be just two of the "Go-To Guys" on this.... (Speaking of Tiger Armor, I always womdered why the Germans weren't the FIRST to realize the advantages of "sloping" all those surfaces! )

I guess this texture is too subtle to really notice in most photos. This was just supposed to be on late Tigers? They either look smooth or covered in dust and dirt, or paint application artifacts, chips etc.. I've never noticed anything on them like say the rough cast texture on a Russian tank turret.

From the research I have done and from several TV shows. It seems they never thought they would need anything more than maybe the PZ IV. They imagined winning the war quickly and not needing to spend the money or time on other tanks.

Don

Well they did "plan" to have heavy tanks like Tiger, if my memory serves me right, the project for heavy tank actually started in 1939. It was on low priority only because it seemed Pz III and IV could do the job pretty well.

Don, there are a lot of old threads about using suede texture paint from Michaels for texturing armor... here a link to one http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_64...tm.htm#6419757

just type Suede in the search box at the bottom of the page and you'll see others

Hope this helps ~ I like the look too!!

The idea behind this comes from people studying many Tigers after the war some insist that these pitting marks are from the factory these claims are usually made by people who understand very little about engineering and what they are looking at firstly things like the mantle and various engine vents would be cast and of cause have a cast finish so would be rough, German armour plates where of rolled steel what this means is the steel would be heated to almost white or over 1000 degree would then be pulled through a pair of large rollers and would reduce the thickness of the steel this would be done several times till the steel reached the desired thickness so any marks would have come from the rollers and would be consistent all along the plate however modellers have been studying tanks that have sat outside for 60 years with little protection or paint and it would be fair to say that they have rusted considerably over the years this will have caused most of the pitting that is being recreated the other thing is multiple layers of paint some has come away with rust leaving a sharp edge then repainted several times again this has been recreated so what is being modelled is a restored tank, probably the only tank to have been looked after to any extent is the Bovington Tiger if you look closely this Tiger has far less surface imperfections than any other tank but is overlooked or ignored so if you insist on this type of treatment then do it sparingly, as for the “Modellers Guide to the Tiger Tank” talented as the author is there are a few mistakes in the book the biggest is his version of Wittmann’s Tiger he depicts this as a mid Tiger when it was actually a late Tiger one only has to study the picture to verify this fact.

Don I like the Mr. Surfacer 500, I see a lot of the german builders finishing theirs with it. As for the parts your talking about, you could try it and just sand it down if it doesn't look right. The Tamiya KT turret is rolled steel if I am not mistaken and it has the same texture your talking about. That texture came from the Tamiya factory. My JagdTiger has Mr. Surfacer on it, but barely noticeable 3 feet away.

Without going too far on the subject and the expense of Mr Surfacer, you would be amazed at the different paints available at places like WalMart. I stopped by there the other day for some primer and they have all types of paints that have 'texturing' capabilities.

I've even noticed some primers leave behind a less than smooth finish and I know sanding with a coarse grit sandpaper can give you the same or at least a better controlled texture. Like the difference in texturing on a Sherman tank. The turret is cast and the hull is not.

Get a sheet of styrene and experiment before the actual use of the model.



- Jeff

I would probably leave the cuppola and barrel smooth.

Anything cast will have a rougher surface texture. Anything machined (even if it was originally cast), stamped, or rolled/drawn will be smoother, like sheet steel, of course when new, not after years of neglect.

In essence, you need to know what was cast and what was not. If engine grates were cast and not machined afterwards, they would be textured as such.

From the picture of 131(?) shown here http://the.shadock.free.fr/Surviving_Tigers.pdf it would appear that almost all the vertical surfaces were NOT cast, short of the mantlet. (at least at the time of its manufacture)

jwilliams3 the picture of your turret looks a though all was cast this is in fact not true, yes the turret was cast but at the scale you are modelling it wouldn’t appear as you have done it would be smoother, as for the main turret dayeager535, is correct that all the main panels where of rolled armour this includes the turret which was initially rolled flat then bent into the horse shoe shape so would have a completely different texture than the cast mantle things like the pistol port, main gun ETC where machined or a mixture of cast and machineing

Rivotcounter has raised many valid points,but we can see the Tiger built from start to finish in pictures.And the texture of the rolled components would be smooth as the term hot rolled steel (HR) or cold rolled steel(CR) But most rolled steel is smooth and that is the texture that new TIGERS would have,Also the debate on the texture of the cast components depends on how much machining was required to complete these components.Thankfully the pictures of the factory have survived,and their are many detailed pictures of the whole assembly line,each section.I would like to ask one question about one Tiger component that seems to always have a texture but is built useing cast hub and machined parts,the drive sprockets.Here's a link to the factory pictures. http://www.alanhamby.com/history.shtml

That's why you folks are the best! Look at what we all learn. Rivet you should have a PHd, in Tiger History, and Saxon as always knows where to dig, and the rest who responded, thank you very much. Panther F knows where to get and what materials to use.

I also enjoy the friendly debate, as it all makes us take another look, and keeps us sharp. Because I don't know if you all realize it or not, we....and I mean all of us are just about the only ones who in 10 or 15 years who will really know. Rivet is also right that sometimes books can decieve. Once again you folks are true Top Shelf.

So here is what I'm gonna do. I'm going very very light on the texture. We'll see what it looks like.

Thanks again

Don

Just wondering...did one or more versions of the Tiger really have a "non symmetrical" turret? I forget just where I read about this but it seems one side of the turret was supposed to be several inches out of "true", to allow for extra stowage (?) . Can anyone confirm?

Don, my knolage of Tigers is only small there are people out there who have vastly more knolage.

Sax, as you say the sprocket hubs where cast obviously the runs for the sprockets would be machined as would the inside this would be mainly for clearance of final drive cover, the centre would also be machined the rest would be left in a raw cast finish save for the pour plug marks.

All Tigers had there turrets made at Krupp the horse shoe shape was stamped from one large flat sheet the right side protruded more than the left to give the asymmetrical shape, there where no modifications to the turret other than the 40mm turret roof and internal details, the initial Tigers a small number had no escape hatch and twin pistol ports