Whats a warbird?
03-16-2011, 02:31 PM
#127
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RE: Whats a warbird?
ORIGINAL: brycesteenburg
It is to a guy racing in an accredited class that deems it so to race in that class along with many other types and manufacture of vehicles. Year of manufacture, style and make means nothing unless stated so in rules.
ORIGINAL: dasquirrelisme
calling an extra 300 a warbird is like calling a honda civic a musclecar
calling an extra 300 a warbird is like calling a honda civic a musclecar
It is to a guy racing in an accredited class that deems it so to race in that class along with many other types and manufacture of vehicles. Year of manufacture, style and make means nothing unless stated so in rules.
8 cylinders and big bore engines seem rather intimidating to a 4 cylinder small bore honda engine.
03-16-2011, 03:05 PM
#128
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RE: Whats a warbird?
60's & 70s muscle cars had HORSE POWER! Today's zoom zoom cars have valves. I have owned more than my share of muscle cars over the years. 
03-16-2011, 05:19 PM
#129
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RE: Whats a warbird?
ORIGINAL: rcphotog
In my opinion, as a life-long ( since I was 3 years old ) aviaton nut/enthusiast, the answer is ... no.
The history of Aviation has been segmented by ''Eras'' and as such the term ''Warbird'' ( in the U.S. ) has been coined to describe ( in a ''classic'' or ''traditional'' definition )
All aircraft flown in support of the ''war effort'' by all nations involved. This has been the ''classic'' definition as long as I can remember. ( I'm only 48 )
The airplanes of the first World War are grouped by the term ''The Great War'' = airplanes of the Great War.
The ''Golden Era'' of aviation refers to planes of the 1930s, sometimes also refered to as ''The Golden Age''....which includes all civilian planes ( no military ) including racing planes.
Paralleling the ''Golden Age'' would be the ''Pre-War'' group refering to Military planes of the 1930s
The ''Korean Era'' refers to planes flown in support of the ''Korean Conflict'' which also begins another group called the ''Century Series'' of fighters.
''Post-war'' would refer to planes placed into sevice after WWII. A ''post-war'' fighter would be like a Grumman F8F Bearcat and F7F Tigercat because they arrived too late to see combat. These and simular planes are still considered Warbirds. This leads to the term ''Post-war-aviation'' referring to civilian aviation around the world immediatley after WWII. A Pitts Special is a product of ''Post-war-aviation''
So, maybe today the broader definition of Warbird ( with a capitol W, not warbird or war bird ) has been expanded to include all military planes ever produced. If this is so, then I'm learning of this change here today.
The term Warbird ( in the U.S. ) has always refered to WWII aircraft. You can debate the nuaunces of what that means if you like. I'm only trying to answer the original posted question- is an Extra 300 a Warbird if painted as such. In the classic / traditional sense here in the U.S.A. ....No.
Here in the U.S.A., a Warbird airshow is a show intended to celebrate aircraft of WWII. ...again, you may debate what is considered a ''WWII airplane'' if you wish.
Happy landings whatever you fly,
Ken.
I hope this helps.
In my opinion, as a life-long ( since I was 3 years old ) aviaton nut/enthusiast, the answer is ... no.
The history of Aviation has been segmented by ''Eras'' and as such the term ''Warbird'' ( in the U.S. ) has been coined to describe ( in a ''classic'' or ''traditional'' definition )
All aircraft flown in support of the ''war effort'' by all nations involved. This has been the ''classic'' definition as long as I can remember. ( I'm only 48 )
The airplanes of the first World War are grouped by the term ''The Great War'' = airplanes of the Great War.
The ''Golden Era'' of aviation refers to planes of the 1930s, sometimes also refered to as ''The Golden Age''....which includes all civilian planes ( no military ) including racing planes.
Paralleling the ''Golden Age'' would be the ''Pre-War'' group refering to Military planes of the 1930s
The ''Korean Era'' refers to planes flown in support of the ''Korean Conflict'' which also begins another group called the ''Century Series'' of fighters.
''Post-war'' would refer to planes placed into sevice after WWII. A ''post-war'' fighter would be like a Grumman F8F Bearcat and F7F Tigercat because they arrived too late to see combat. These and simular planes are still considered Warbirds. This leads to the term ''Post-war-aviation'' referring to civilian aviation around the world immediatley after WWII. A Pitts Special is a product of ''Post-war-aviation''
So, maybe today the broader definition of Warbird ( with a capitol W, not warbird or war bird ) has been expanded to include all military planes ever produced. If this is so, then I'm learning of this change here today.
The term Warbird ( in the U.S. ) has always refered to WWII aircraft. You can debate the nuaunces of what that means if you like. I'm only trying to answer the original posted question- is an Extra 300 a Warbird if painted as such. In the classic / traditional sense here in the U.S.A. ....No.
Here in the U.S.A., a Warbird airshow is a show intended to celebrate aircraft of WWII.
...again, you may debate what is considered a ''WWII airplane'' if you wish.Happy landings whatever you fly,
Ken.
I hope this helps.
Rcphotog, I agree but I have a slightly different and more fun classification:
Box Kites, floaties, heavy metal, blow torches, targets, flying fence post.
I think you can figure out what they are, but here goes
Box Kite – WWI biplane… triplane
Floaties – eindecker, taube, cub, pt-17, pt-19, etc.
Heavy metal – WWII fighters
Blow Torches – the Me262 was the first
Targets – anything that was not a fighter, thanks Dave.
Flying fence post – extra’s, Suckies oh sorry sukhoi
Joe
Tongue in cheek
03-16-2011, 06:55 PM
#130
RE: Whats a warbird?
ORIGINAL: TimT2000
I took your advice and read a lot about the cub in WWII. I have seen many cubs at WB events over the years
but never ran across this one. I like it.
Tim
I took your advice and read a lot about the cub in WWII. I have seen many cubs at WB events over the years
but never ran across this one. I like it.
Tim
03-16-2011, 07:40 PM
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RE: Whats a warbird?
Here is another Navy plane. Designated the R4D then transferred to NASA for X-15 support And other duties. I hope to fly at Warbirds over the Rockies. Will they let me in?
03-16-2011, 09:39 PM
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RE: Whats a warbird?
Warbird is a term used to describe vintage military aircraft. Although the term originally implied piston driven aircraft from the World War II era, it is now often extended to include all military aircraft, including jet powered aircraft, that are no longer in military service. Vintage jet aircraft in flyable condition, however, are much rarer due to technical complexity.
Sometimes, the term "warbird" also applies to newly built replicas and reproductions of vintage aircraft, such as Allison V-1710 powered Yak-9s from Yakovlev, Me 262s built by the Me 262 Project and FW 190s by Flug Werk, and can, for earlier eras when military aircraft design was of a less complex nature, even include any one of a large number of different World War I and later military aircraft designs, up through the late 1930s in origin, sometimes powered by vintage engines from the era of the aircraft design being flown.
Restored warbirds are a frequent attraction at airshows. Highly modified as well as "stock" warbirds can also frequently be seen at air races, since late-war fighter planes are among the fastest propeller-driven planes ever built. Some of the most popular warbirds for races are the P-51 Mustang, the Hawker Sea Fury, the F8F Bearcat, and the T-6 Texan.
I don't know if there is an "official" definition of the tern, but the above is probably close.
03-16-2011, 10:55 PM
#136
RE: Whats a warbird?
ORIGINAL: jessiej
Warbird is a term used to describe vintage military aircraft. Although the term originally implied piston driven aircraft from the World War II era, it is now often extended to include all military aircraft, including jet powered aircraft, that are no longer in military service. Vintage jet aircraft in flyable condition, however, are much rarer due to technical complexity.
Sometimes, the term ''warbird'' also applies to newly built replicas and reproductions of vintage aircraft, such as Allison V-1710 powered Yak-9s from Yakovlev, Me 262s built by the Me 262 Project and FW 190s by Flug Werk, and can, for earlier eras when military aircraft design was of a less complex nature, even include any one of a large number of different World War I and later military aircraft designs, up through the late 1930s in origin, sometimes powered by vintage engines from the era of the aircraft design being flown.
Restored warbirds are a frequent attraction at airshows. Highly modified as well as ''stock'' warbirds can also frequently be seen at air races, since late-war fighter planes are among the fastest propeller-driven planes ever built. Some of the most popular warbirds for races are the P-51 Mustang, the Hawker Sea Fury, the F8F Bearcat, and the T-6 Texan.
I don't know if there is an ''official'' definition of the tern, but the above is probably close.
Warbird is a term used to describe vintage military aircraft. Although the term originally implied piston driven aircraft from the World War II era, it is now often extended to include all military aircraft, including jet powered aircraft, that are no longer in military service. Vintage jet aircraft in flyable condition, however, are much rarer due to technical complexity.
Sometimes, the term ''warbird'' also applies to newly built replicas and reproductions of vintage aircraft, such as Allison V-1710 powered Yak-9s from Yakovlev, Me 262s built by the Me 262 Project and FW 190s by Flug Werk, and can, for earlier eras when military aircraft design was of a less complex nature, even include any one of a large number of different World War I and later military aircraft designs, up through the late 1930s in origin, sometimes powered by vintage engines from the era of the aircraft design being flown.
Restored warbirds are a frequent attraction at airshows. Highly modified as well as ''stock'' warbirds can also frequently be seen at air races, since late-war fighter planes are among the fastest propeller-driven planes ever built. Some of the most popular warbirds for races are the P-51 Mustang, the Hawker Sea Fury, the F8F Bearcat, and the T-6 Texan.
I don't know if there is an ''official'' definition of the tern, but the above is probably close.
Much better than "because I say so" or "if you have to ask, you're not worthy".
03-17-2011, 06:51 AM
#137
RE: Whats a warbird?
warbird
The Oxford Essential Dictionary of the U.S. Military | 2001 | © The Oxford Essential Dictionary of the U.S. Military 2001, originally published by Oxford University Press 2001. (Hide copyright information) Copyright
warbird n. a vintage military aircraft.
So, there you have it. Quite simple. Of couse this will not change what you think it means. For one thing it disqualifies all current aircraft still actively in use. So, many years from now, the Extra will qualify if painted with the colors of the Military Air Force of Chile (for example).
Are the F16, F18, etc. warbirds? Of course not! They are not vintage... Je je
Gerry
The Oxford Essential Dictionary of the U.S. Military | 2001 | © The Oxford Essential Dictionary of the U.S. Military 2001, originally published by Oxford University Press 2001. (Hide copyright information) Copyright
warbird n. a vintage military aircraft.
So, there you have it. Quite simple. Of couse this will not change what you think it means. For one thing it disqualifies all current aircraft still actively in use. So, many years from now, the Extra will qualify if painted with the colors of the Military Air Force of Chile (for example).
Are the F16, F18, etc. warbirds? Of course not! They are not vintage... Je je
Gerry
03-17-2011, 07:01 AM
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RE: Whats a warbird?
The Rhinebeck Jamboree, sponsored by the Mid-Hudson Radio Control Society held at the Old Rhinebeck Aerodrome, is a good example of a type specific model fly in. The event is advertised as "a scale model airplane fly-in for pioneer, WWI and Golden Age aircraft". The overall requirements sectionon the information page further states: 1) Aircraft must be scale models of aircraft built prior to December 31, 1939. 2) Models of aircraft used in WWII combat situations are NOT eligible. And there are other other regulations for AMA membership, aircraft weight and frequency control. So anything, any scale from a Curtiss Model-D pusher to Fokker DR. 1 to Gee-Bee and J-3 to an Aerocoupe or WACO can fly, but no P-51's or Me-262 or F-16 or Extra's can. Pretty simple if the requirements are laid out ahead of time..and a lot of fun!
http://www.mhrcs.com/pages/Jamboree.htm
Jaybird
http://www.mhrcs.com/pages/Jamboree.htm
Jaybird
03-17-2011, 09:51 AM
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RE: Whats a warbird?
ORIGINAL: ram3500-RCU
Only ''vintage military aircraft''? I don't think so. But opinions vary.
Only ''vintage military aircraft''? I don't think so. But opinions vary.
jess
03-17-2011, 10:54 AM
#142
RE: Whats a warbird?
ORIGINAL: G-Pete
When it looks like, flies like and sounds like one.....
When it looks like, flies like and sounds like one.....
BTW, every single gas engined R/C "warbird" that I have ever seen and heard sounds like a lawn mower. Some of the 5 or 7 cylinder 4 stroke radials sound pretty credible.
03-17-2011, 11:00 AM
#143
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RE: Whats a warbird?
ORIGINAL: xcell23
When you get outside of the major powers, you can come up with some strange warbirds. In the early 80's, Libya had cropdusters painted in camo, I was told that they were for ground support for the army. They looked like Agwagons, but you didn't spend a lot of time looking at military aircraft in Tripoli airport. Or at least I thought it might be safer to look unobservant.
When you get outside of the major powers, you can come up with some strange warbirds. In the early 80's, Libya had cropdusters painted in camo, I was told that they were for ground support for the army. They looked like Agwagons, but you didn't spend a lot of time looking at military aircraft in Tripoli airport. Or at least I thought it might be safer to look unobservant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Tractor_AT-802
http://www.defence-update.net/wordpr...rnborough.html
An Extra IF USED AS A MILITARY TRAINER has to be as much of a warbird as a PT-17, PT-19, AT-6 etc etc.
03-17-2011, 11:00 AM
#144
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RE: Whats a warbird?
The "13' CORSAIR MID AIR AUG, 2006" video that shows up when P-38 one finishes is very convincing...no doubt about being warbirds!
Jaybird
Jaybird
03-17-2011, 12:28 PM
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RE: Whats a warbird?
Hey Guys,
I guess it depends on what the intent of the term Warbird is in the context of the event the OP is trying to attend. It would be out of place in the Classic/Vintage events or flights. It wouldn't bother me in the Modern Military flights with a couple caveats. It would need to be flown in the style of the full scale, well documented it's a demo team scheme, and a good explanation of it's history/use written up and given to the announcer for him to use as he wished to explain the aircraft as it would be an unusual sight.
I don't really care to see a Spitfire being chased by an Extra..... However, in a flight of modern aircraft, seeing an Extra go by along with some acknowledgment of it's role wouldn't bother me. That's why I say it depends on the intent of the event and/or flight. The Extra might fit and in might not depends on the event. If I were trying to do this I would be proactive and ask when it would be appropriate for me to fly and if the event didn't segregate flying I'd do it myself only flying when the Modern aircraft were going up. The joy of warbird flying is seeing similar types together. Seeing the wrong aircraft at the wrong time spoils the illusion.
I haven't seen anyone mention the primary role of a Demo Team is recruitment. I guess that's why it wouldn't bother me if flown it was in a scale manner in the correct context. It's not for me to judge what's an appropriate aircraft for any air-force to use. If the Chilean's use Extra's so be it. Weird to see, but Demo Teams motivate many to join the armed services and this is defiantly a military role. If other support roles are allowed then recruitment has it's place.
Just don't go chasing a DR-1 around and making gun noises
Joe
I guess it depends on what the intent of the term Warbird is in the context of the event the OP is trying to attend. It would be out of place in the Classic/Vintage events or flights. It wouldn't bother me in the Modern Military flights with a couple caveats. It would need to be flown in the style of the full scale, well documented it's a demo team scheme, and a good explanation of it's history/use written up and given to the announcer for him to use as he wished to explain the aircraft as it would be an unusual sight.
I don't really care to see a Spitfire being chased by an Extra..... However, in a flight of modern aircraft, seeing an Extra go by along with some acknowledgment of it's role wouldn't bother me. That's why I say it depends on the intent of the event and/or flight. The Extra might fit and in might not depends on the event. If I were trying to do this I would be proactive and ask when it would be appropriate for me to fly and if the event didn't segregate flying I'd do it myself only flying when the Modern aircraft were going up. The joy of warbird flying is seeing similar types together. Seeing the wrong aircraft at the wrong time spoils the illusion.
I haven't seen anyone mention the primary role of a Demo Team is recruitment. I guess that's why it wouldn't bother me if flown it was in a scale manner in the correct context. It's not for me to judge what's an appropriate aircraft for any air-force to use. If the Chilean's use Extra's so be it. Weird to see, but Demo Teams motivate many to join the armed services and this is defiantly a military role. If other support roles are allowed then recruitment has it's place.
Just don't go chasing a DR-1 around and making gun noises
Joe
03-17-2011, 01:28 PM
#146
RE: Whats a warbird?
ORIGINAL: JeffH
Air Tractor is making armored and armed crop dusters as we speak.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Tractor_AT-802
http://www.defence-update.net/wordpr...rnborough.html
An Extra IF USED AS A MILITARY TRAINER has to be as much of a warbird as a PT-17, PT-19, AT-6 etc etc.
ORIGINAL: xcell23
When you get outside of the major powers, you can come up with some strange warbirds. In the early 80's, Libya had cropdusters painted in camo, I was told that they were for ground support for the army. They looked like Agwagons, but you didn't spend a lot of time looking at military aircraft in Tripoli airport. Or at least I thought it might be safer to look unobservant.
When you get outside of the major powers, you can come up with some strange warbirds. In the early 80's, Libya had cropdusters painted in camo, I was told that they were for ground support for the army. They looked like Agwagons, but you didn't spend a lot of time looking at military aircraft in Tripoli airport. Or at least I thought it might be safer to look unobservant.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Tractor_AT-802
http://www.defence-update.net/wordpr...rnborough.html
An Extra IF USED AS A MILITARY TRAINER has to be as much of a warbird as a PT-17, PT-19, AT-6 etc etc.
Gerry
03-17-2011, 03:04 PM
#148
RE: Whats a warbird?
ORIGINAL: perttime
I've already seen a couple of explanations that make sense. Your's doesn't.
BTW, every single gas engined R/C "warbird" that I have ever seen and heard sounds like a lawn mower. Some of the 5 or 7 cylinder 4 stroke radials sound pretty credible.
ORIGINAL: G-Pete
When it looks like, flies like and sounds like one.....
When it looks like, flies like and sounds like one.....
BTW, every single gas engined R/C "warbird" that I have ever seen and heard sounds like a lawn mower. Some of the 5 or 7 cylinder 4 stroke radials sound pretty credible.
then
it does not matter if the single two stroke 80cc sounds not like a V-layout engine. + the Betty Page does not sound like a lawn mower....
Now show me yours.....
03-17-2011, 04:30 PM
#150
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RE: Whats a warbird?
ORIGINAL: GerKonig
The extra would not qualify as a PT-17, PT-19, AT-6 because it is not VINTAGE.
Gerry
The extra would not qualify as a PT-17, PT-19, AT-6 because it is not VINTAGE.
Gerry
Having asked - I'm more amazed now about how all you so called "warbird aficionados" cannot even agree between yourselfs about what constitutes a wirbird. There is so much disagreement here that I'm surprised you can have a "warbird" event without a punch-up as to whether it's WW2, seen combat, dropped bombs, armed or is Vintage. I think you guys just make this up as you go.
From the W.M.W.A site
Welcome to the W.M.W.A. Website. We are an organization dedicated to building and flying R/C models built after the designs of the many aircraft used for combat and defense around the world. Model size, method of power and construction are not an issue. We're about friendship, we're about helping each other, we're about introducing this fascinating hobby to young people.
The only debate here would be the words "combat and defense" - and how they are interperted. The other bit about "friendship and helping each other" is just there to fill a sentance.