War Birds at the Toledo Show
#51
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (221)
RE: War Birds at the Toledo Show
ORIGINAL: bigphil
Yes I spoke to him as well. Nice fellow and justifyably proud of his plane. The detail on it was amazing. I'm not familiar with the judging requirements at Toledo, I thought it was primarily a beauty contest. That plane was a BEAUTY. No hanger queen either, there was video of it flying!
I've always loved the Albatros but I haven't been able to part with the kind of cash they want for the Proctor kits. Balsa USA has one in the works, I'm waiting to see what they come up with.
Yes I spoke to him as well. Nice fellow and justifyably proud of his plane. The detail on it was amazing. I'm not familiar with the judging requirements at Toledo, I thought it was primarily a beauty contest. That plane was a BEAUTY. No hanger queen either, there was video of it flying!
I've always loved the Albatros but I haven't been able to part with the kind of cash they want for the Proctor kits. Balsa USA has one in the works, I'm waiting to see what they come up with.
#52
Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Townsend,
DE
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: War Birds at the Toledo Show
Hey Phil
I was told that my plane wasn't judged because of the lack of documentation, it seems you have to write them a book report ( BS ). By the way mine was the P-47 ( Arkansas Traveler/ Mud N' Mules)
I was told that my plane wasn't judged because of the lack of documentation, it seems you have to write them a book report ( BS ). By the way mine was the P-47 ( Arkansas Traveler/ Mud N' Mules)
#55
My Feedback: (2)
RE: War Birds at the Toledo Show
Yes documentation is required.. but I'm not sure why? They don't turn the planes etc. so if you have a table spot that's less than ideal for viewing how do they judge it?
Most people I know that have competed don't get a score sheet etc. so you never know what's not "right" about your plane.
Greg Hahn told me that one year he didn't place at all with his plane only to get top static a few weeks later at Top Gun.. go figure! lol
Most people I know that have competed don't get a score sheet etc. so you never know what's not "right" about your plane.
Greg Hahn told me that one year he didn't place at all with his plane only to get top static a few weeks later at Top Gun.. go figure! lol
#57
Senior Member
My Feedback: (6)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Davenport, IA
Posts: 412
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: War Birds at the Toledo Show
Bfair,
Your 47 is one sweet ride too! Too bad about the judging.
I've never attempted to enter anything but I guess some research on the specific criteria for each class would be prudent if I ever decided to. Or maybe a few carefully placed pieces of US currency would make it happen...
Just kidding! Don't go all psycho on me.
Your 47 is one sweet ride too! Too bad about the judging.
I've never attempted to enter anything but I guess some research on the specific criteria for each class would be prudent if I ever decided to. Or maybe a few carefully placed pieces of US currency would make it happen...
Just kidding! Don't go all psycho on me.
#58
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (221)
RE: War Birds at the Toledo Show
ORIGINAL: scale only 4 me
Looks like I missed quite a few planes by going early Friday, sure didn't mis the crowded conditions, Those Display tables were half empty most of the day..
Looks like I missed quite a few planes by going early Friday, sure didn't mis the crowded conditions, Those Display tables were half empty most of the day..
We were a little tardy Friday.
Gary / Zombie
#59
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (221)
RE: War Birds at the Toledo Show
ORIGINAL: bfair67
Hey Phil
I was told that my plane wasn't judged because of the lack of documentation, it seems you have to write them a book report ( BS ). By the way mine was the P-47 ( Arkansas Traveler/ Mud N' Mules)
Hey Phil
I was told that my plane wasn't judged because of the lack of documentation, it seems you have to write them a book report ( BS ). By the way mine was the P-47 ( Arkansas Traveler/ Mud N' Mules)
#60
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (221)
RE: War Birds at the Toledo Show
ORIGINAL: BobH
Yes documentation is required.. but I'm not sure why? They don't turn the planes etc. so if you have a table spot that's less than ideal for viewing how do they judge it?
Most people I know that have competed don't get a score sheet etc. so you never know what's not ''right'' about your plane.
Greg Hahn told me that one year he didn't place at all with his plane only to get top static a few weeks later at Top Gun.. go figure! lol
Yes documentation is required.. but I'm not sure why? They don't turn the planes etc. so if you have a table spot that's less than ideal for viewing how do they judge it?
Most people I know that have competed don't get a score sheet etc. so you never know what's not ''right'' about your plane.
Greg Hahn told me that one year he didn't place at all with his plane only to get top static a few weeks later at Top Gun.. go figure! lol
In fact Bob has the worlds largest commercial scale documentation business. www.bobsairdoc.com He advertises in most of the magazines we read. His CD catalog, (I picked one up at the show), has 39,000 pages of 3-views alone, and he has in all 8,200 packs listed, containing about 500,000 photos. Also on the CD is 10 articles on scale building, written by leading builders in the field. He is one of the judges, and does a very good seminar on scale judging. Worth your time to attend if you want to get into a judges head a little.
#63
Senior Member
My Feedback: (-1)
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Bad Lippspringe, 1944, GERMANY
Posts: 2,658
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: War Birds at the Toledo Show
ORIGINAL: ram3500-RCU
Good three views, color docs, and up to 8 pages in all of whatever you want to highlight. Standard stuff really.
Good three views, color docs, and up to 8 pages in all of whatever you want to highlight. Standard stuff really.
a couple of paragraphs of the subject. hate to think one would loose becouse of lack of color photo's & documents
on 65+ year old aircraft on a otherwise flawless replica. mabey they need more qualified judges with a broader
understanding of all aircraft.
#64
My Feedback: (1)
RE: War Birds at the Toledo Show
As Ram stated this all is pretty standard stuff at competition level. If one pic is all that is provided and this does not fulfill the stated or implied needs then it will not do well no matter how great your model is.
Fair.
Not really, but it's the standard. In the long run it keeps everyone on an even field.
If you wanna play, you have to play by their rules
That why it's very important if you want to compete to pick your subject matter carefully.
Fair.
Not really, but it's the standard. In the long run it keeps everyone on an even field.
If you wanna play, you have to play by their rules
That why it's very important if you want to compete to pick your subject matter carefully.
#65
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (221)
RE: War Birds at the Toledo Show
ORIGINAL: Experten109/40
and this is for the benefit of who? the judges? sometimes the best one can find is a couple b/w photos &
a couple of paragraphs of the subject. hate to think one would loose becouse of lack of color photo's & documents
on 65+ year old aircraft on a otherwise flawless replica. mabey they need more qualified judges with a broader
understanding of all aircraft.
ORIGINAL: ram3500-RCU
Good three views, color docs, and up to 8 pages in all of whatever you want to highlight. Standard stuff really.
Good three views, color docs, and up to 8 pages in all of whatever you want to highlight. Standard stuff really.
a couple of paragraphs of the subject. hate to think one would loose becouse of lack of color photo's & documents
on 65+ year old aircraft on a otherwise flawless replica. mabey they need more qualified judges with a broader
understanding of all aircraft.
#66
Senior Member
My Feedback: (-1)
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Bad Lippspringe, 1944, GERMANY
Posts: 2,658
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: War Birds at the Toledo Show
ORIGINAL: glazier808
As Ram stated this all is pretty standard stuff at competition level. If one pic is all that is provided and this does not fulfill the stated or implied needs then it will not do well no matter how great your model is.
Fair.
Not really, but it's the standard. In the long run it keeps everyone on an even field.
If you wanna play, you have to play by their rules
As Ram stated this all is pretty standard stuff at competition level. If one pic is all that is provided and this does not fulfill the stated or implied needs then it will not do well no matter how great your model is.
Fair.
Not really, but it's the standard. In the long run it keeps everyone on an even field.
If you wanna play, you have to play by their rules
yup... a pity.
Ram nice pics BTW.. anybody have anymore of the Albatross???
#67
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (221)
RE: War Birds at the Toledo Show
ORIGINAL: glazier808
As Ram stated this all is pretty standard stuff at competition level. If one pic is all that is provided and this does not fulfill the stated or implied needs then it will not do well no matter how great your model is.
Fair.
Not really, but it's the standard. In the long run it keeps everyone on an even field.
If you wanna play, you have to play by their rules
That why it's very important if you want to compete to pick your subject matter carefully.
As Ram stated this all is pretty standard stuff at competition level. If one pic is all that is provided and this does not fulfill the stated or implied needs then it will not do well no matter how great your model is.
Fair.
Not really, but it's the standard. In the long run it keeps everyone on an even field.
If you wanna play, you have to play by their rules
That why it's very important if you want to compete to pick your subject matter carefully.
Also, duplicating a restored or museum aircraft is much easier, as heavy weathering and wear are usually not visible. A whole level of surface detail is eliminated.
Now, that isn't our cup of tea, so we shoot ourselves in the foot on the competition level, but so be it. We will continue to produce war birds that look like they just came back from a sortie.
Next year, it will be a different war bird, but still the same goal in the final appearance (with documentation)
#68
Senior Member
My Feedback: (-1)
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Bad Lippspringe, 1944, GERMANY
Posts: 2,658
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: War Birds at the Toledo Show
ORIGINAL: ram3500-RCU
How can you tell it is a "flawless replica" without documentation? No judge is an expert on every aircraft produced. The good judges rely on the documentation you give them, and then judge how close you come to replicating or simulating it. That is why it is important to document what you do and do what you document or show.
ORIGINAL: Experten109/40
and this is for the benefit of who? the judges? sometimes the best one can find is a couple b/w photos &
a couple of paragraphs of the subject. hate to think one would loose becouse of lack of color photo's & documents
on 65+ year old aircraft on a otherwise flawless replica. mabey they need more qualified judges with a broader
understanding of all aircraft.
ORIGINAL: ram3500-RCU
Good three views, color docs, and up to 8 pages in all of whatever you want to highlight. Standard stuff really.
Good three views, color docs, and up to 8 pages in all of whatever you want to highlight. Standard stuff really.
a couple of paragraphs of the subject. hate to think one would loose becouse of lack of color photo's & documents
on 65+ year old aircraft on a otherwise flawless replica. mabey they need more qualified judges with a broader
understanding of all aircraft.
and theres no color photo to back it up ( although it is the correct colors{ very common knowledge} ) I
would hate to loose points based on that. thanks again.
#69
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (221)
RE: War Birds at the Toledo Show
ORIGINAL: Experten109/40
what a pity. theres so many rare birds out there that can't be showcased @ a profesional level according to the rules.
yup... a pity.
Ram nice pics BTW.. anybody have anymore of the Albatross???
ORIGINAL: glazier808
As Ram stated this all is pretty standard stuff at competition level. If one pic is all that is provided and this does not fulfill the stated or implied needs then it will not do well no matter how great your model is.
Fair.
Not really, but it's the standard. In the long run it keeps everyone on an even field.
If you wanna play, you have to play by their rules
As Ram stated this all is pretty standard stuff at competition level. If one pic is all that is provided and this does not fulfill the stated or implied needs then it will not do well no matter how great your model is.
Fair.
Not really, but it's the standard. In the long run it keeps everyone on an even field.
If you wanna play, you have to play by their rules
yup... a pity.
Ram nice pics BTW.. anybody have anymore of the Albatross???
Bottom line is, if you intend to seriously compete, you can't ignor the issue of the documentation, and it has to be brought into the building process very early, not as a mere afterthought at the end.
#71
Senior Member
My Feedback: (-1)
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Bad Lippspringe, 1944, GERMANY
Posts: 2,658
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: War Birds at the Toledo Show
ORIGINAL: ram3500-RCU
I would say that I deeply enjoy seeing these masterpieces at events and shows. Whether they win prizes or not, they still are labors of love by their builders and receive all the attention they deserve by those attending, and other modelers, as all these entries at the Toledo Show did. Hundreds of people shake your hand and compliment you on your work. I saw virtually every builder answering questions about their creations as I looked down the line.
Bottom line is, if you intend to seriously compete, you can't ignor the issue of the documentation, and it has to be brought into the building process very early, not as a mere afterthought at the end.
ORIGINAL: Experten109/40
what a pity. theres so many rare birds out there that can't be showcased @ a profesional level according to the rules.
yup... a pity.
Ram nice pics BTW.. anybody have anymore of the Albatross???
ORIGINAL: glazier808
As Ram stated this all is pretty standard stuff at competition level. If one pic is all that is provided and this does not fulfill the stated or implied needs then it will not do well no matter how great your model is.
Fair.
Not really, but it's the standard. In the long run it keeps everyone on an even field.
If you wanna play, you have to play by their rules
As Ram stated this all is pretty standard stuff at competition level. If one pic is all that is provided and this does not fulfill the stated or implied needs then it will not do well no matter how great your model is.
Fair.
Not really, but it's the standard. In the long run it keeps everyone on an even field.
If you wanna play, you have to play by their rules
yup... a pity.
Ram nice pics BTW.. anybody have anymore of the Albatross???
Bottom line is, if you intend to seriously compete, you can't ignor the issue of the documentation, and it has to be brought into the building process very early, not as a mere afterthought at the end.
#72
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (221)
RE: War Birds at the Toledo Show
ORIGINAL: Experten109/40
that is my problem here.. plenty of b/w pics, no color photos. oh well, not gonna change my mind now lol
ORIGINAL: ram3500-RCU
I would say that I deeply enjoy seeing these masterpieces at events and shows. Whether they win prizes or not, they still are labors of love by their builders and receive all the attention they deserve by those attending, and other modelers, as all these entries at the Toledo Show did. Hundreds of people shake your hand and compliment you on your work. I saw virtually every builder answering questions about their creations as I looked down the line.
Bottom line is, if you intend to seriously compete, you can't ignor the issue of the documentation, and it has to be brought into the building process very early, not as a mere afterthought at the end.
ORIGINAL: Experten109/40
what a pity. theres so many rare birds out there that can't be showcased @ a profesional level according to the rules.
yup... a pity.
Ram nice pics BTW.. anybody have anymore of the Albatross???
ORIGINAL: glazier808
As Ram stated this all is pretty standard stuff at competition level. If one pic is all that is provided and this does not fulfill the stated or implied needs then it will not do well no matter how great your model is.
Fair.
Not really, but it's the standard. In the long run it keeps everyone on an even field.
If you wanna play, you have to play by their rules
As Ram stated this all is pretty standard stuff at competition level. If one pic is all that is provided and this does not fulfill the stated or implied needs then it will not do well no matter how great your model is.
Fair.
Not really, but it's the standard. In the long run it keeps everyone on an even field.
If you wanna play, you have to play by their rules
yup... a pity.
Ram nice pics BTW.. anybody have anymore of the Albatross???
Bottom line is, if you intend to seriously compete, you can't ignor the issue of the documentation, and it has to be brought into the building process very early, not as a mere afterthought at the end.
#73
Senior Member
My Feedback: (-1)
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Bad Lippspringe, 1944, GERMANY
Posts: 2,658
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: War Birds at the Toledo Show
Roger that. 8 b/w photos per pagew/ detailed explanations,+ 1 color profile Drawing = I'm now
playing by the rules. you just made my year Gary. thanks a bunch!
playing by the rules. you just made my year Gary. thanks a bunch!
#74
My Feedback: (158)
RE: War Birds at the Toledo Show
ORIGINAL: ram3500-RCU
We would have been there by 8:30 am Friday, but as we were driving across the turn pike, and less than an hour out, my brother exclaimed OH $%^&#@!!!!!!! I asked what the heck was the matter. He said........I FORGOT THE PROP!!!!!!!!!...........Well, it was another 16 miles till we could turn around. All the way back home to get the darn prop.
We were a little tardy Friday.
Gary / Zombie
ORIGINAL: scale only 4 me
Looks like I missed quite a few planes by going early Friday, sure didn't mis the crowded conditions, Those Display tables were half empty most of the day..
Looks like I missed quite a few planes by going early Friday, sure didn't mis the crowded conditions, Those Display tables were half empty most of the day..
We were a little tardy Friday.
Gary / Zombie
BTW,
The Date for the Warbird Fly in in Grafton is Aug. 27,,,
I may not be able to be there, Wife has Vacation that week
#75
My Feedback: (1)
RE: War Birds at the Toledo Show
It's a delicate balance between what you have for documentation, and what you present them with. All to meet what they need.
i.e. Prepair your own paint chips, they only have what you have given them...i.e. The paint chips you've provided, so your plane should match your paint chips.
i.e. Prepair your own paint chips, they only have what you have given them...i.e. The paint chips you've provided, so your plane should match your paint chips.