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P_51 Mustang crashes into crowds at Reno

Old 09-16-2011, 04:40 PM
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ticketec
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Default P_51 Mustang crashes into crowds at Reno

I just found this on another forum!

Reports of 12 Dead and As Many as 30 Injured at Reno Air Races

According to our crews on the scene, a plane has crashed at the Reno Air Races just now.

According to reports pilot Jimmy Leeword was flying the Galloping Ghost, that went down soon after take-off during the beginning of the Unlimited race.

Numerours reports of the Unlimited plane sliding into the grandstand/bleachers injurying an unknown number of spectators.

Careflight and Reno Fire is enroute.

Reno-Stead airport authorities are asking everyone to go home.

All planes are grounded.

Stay tuned as we will be updating as details become available.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCNePeKn3Tg
Old 09-16-2011, 05:05 PM
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Default RE: P_51 Mustang crashes into crowds at Reno

Yes, i was juss talking to Adrian who witnessed this horrible crash about 1 and half hour ago. He said airplane went out of circuit, went vertical and then nosed dived and crashed into VIP stands.

Killed atleast 20 people and don't know how many others were injured. Please stay tuned for more news and updates coming soon, recovery efforts are currently under way there.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzvro_u73xM[/youtube]
Old 09-16-2011, 05:18 PM
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bigtim
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Default RE: P_51 Mustang crashes into crowds at Reno

just saw the report on the local news, they reported 12 dead and 40 or more injured possible increase in fatalities
Old 09-16-2011, 05:35 PM
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Default RE: P_51 Mustang crashes into crowds at Reno

Very sad!
Old 09-16-2011, 05:42 PM
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Default RE: P_51 Mustang crashes into crowds at Reno


ORIGINAL: drube

Very sad! [img][/img]
Yes very very sad news!,

Adrian doesn't think these air races will continue to happen anymore after what he witnessed today!, i have similar feeling also...
Old 09-16-2011, 06:27 PM
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Default RE: P_51 Mustang crashes into crowds at Reno

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5E1kNHV4V3g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLvYrpO3zpk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLk3w...eature=related
Old 09-16-2011, 11:12 PM
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Default RE: P_51 Mustang crashes into crowds at Reno

updated news reports that 3 confirmed dead 57 wounded but that there was some very serious injury's involved really tragic news
Old 09-17-2011, 12:15 AM
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Default RE: P_51 Mustang crashes into crowds at Reno

just having a look at some of the images on our web news of the aircraft before it went in..

can not see the pilot in the two images here ,, may not have been a mechanical problem ??
sorry could not upload the images
Old 09-17-2011, 12:50 AM
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ticketec
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Default RE: P_51 Mustang crashes into crowds at Reno

Here are some more pictures starting to come in....

Yes, it seems like the pilot isn't visable from the current crop of pictures.

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Old 09-17-2011, 12:52 AM
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ticketec
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Default RE: P_51 Mustang crashes into crowds at Reno

Here are some more pictures that might start to paint the picture of what may have caused the accident.

The left trim tab has departed company with the elevator.


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Old 09-17-2011, 02:36 AM
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Default RE: P_51 Mustang crashes into crowds at Reno

Pilot not visible, yet canopy still intact? Trim tab failure root cause? Sounds a little absurb, but who knows at this point.

ALSO: why is the tailwheel down?

It appears from watching a video, that by forcing everyone to leave: they created a traffic jam which may have impaired responding emergency vehicles.
Old 09-17-2011, 04:04 AM
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Default RE: P_51 Mustang crashes into crowds at Reno

my thoughts go out to all concerned, awful thing to happen , seems to have been a really bad year world wide ,
i witnessed the midair at flying legends that was bad enough and they survived

andy
Old 09-17-2011, 04:11 AM
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Default RE: P_51 Mustang crashes into crowds at Reno

absolutly terible crash , the pilot must not have had time to do anything
Old 09-17-2011, 04:17 AM
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ticketec
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Default RE: P_51 Mustang crashes into crowds at Reno

ORIGINAL: CorsairJock

Pilot not visible, yet canopy still intact? Trim tab failure root cause? Sounds a little absurb, but who knows at this point.

Here is a cut and paste from another forum regarding the importance of trim tabs on certain types of aircraft:

Trim tab failure
I was flying a Beech Baron when the control rod to the elevator trim tab broke. We were just leaving the pattern at about 120 kts. Took two of us to hold the yoke. Looking aft, it looked like the hs tips were flexing up and down about 45 degrees. The whole aircraft was shaking violently.


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Default Heart Flutter
To the thread starter, I would listen to the inspector. I had a severe elevator flutter in a homebuilt type similar to an RV6 but not a Vans design. A trim cable sheath had slid just enough to allow a touch of slop in the cable. I started a gentle pull up at about 165 IAS (well below the often seen VNE) and all **** broke loose with a buzz(actually the trim tab) along with a arm wrenching, but lower frequency pitch oscillation of the entire elevator. I pulled power to idle and headed more or less 45 degrees upward to bleed off speed. There was only enough time to think I might not survive this. 2-3 seconds and it stopped and I was about 1000 feet higher. A close inspection on the ground found the problem. Trim tabs, trim cables, end yokes and cotter pins now get my full attention on pre-flight.

Thanks

dave
Old 09-17-2011, 04:59 AM
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Default RE: P_51 Mustang crashes into crowds at Reno

After listening to witnesses (via videos), who incidently, sound like they are actually qualified/ knowing something about aviation (a VERY refreshing change): maybe the trim tab WAS at fault: they describe manuevers which seem to indicate pilot was unable to counter, and more specically: elevator control seems to have been lost, or at the very least: impaired.

Many of us have witnessed at some point in our R/C 'adventures' the effects of flutter, which likely would have preceeded the trim tab seperation.
Old 09-17-2011, 05:28 AM
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Default RE: P_51 Mustang crashes into crowds at Reno


ORIGINAL: CorsairJock

ALSO: why is the tailwheel down?
In what order does a P-51 landing gear come out normally?
Old 09-17-2011, 05:50 AM
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Default RE: P_51 Mustang crashes into crowds at Reno

Could be a booster tab instead of a trim tab. Later P-51s had booster tabs to help with high elevator airloads simular to Corsairs.

With an Experimental Certificate, it is likely that there isn't too much resemblence to an off the assembly line plane.

Ray W.
Old 09-17-2011, 06:17 AM
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Default RE: P_51 Mustang crashes into crowds at Reno

He was too low to regain control. He tried to turn the 400 mph speed into altitude and knew when the plane went inverted on him when he pulled up that he was in trouble. Jimmy Leeward fought to regain control of the P-51 Racer all the way until he hit the ground. Because of his flight skills and heroism, he managed to just clear most of the crowd before impact.

The people that died was killed when the prop sliced 2 people in half when the blades seperated from the hub, the rest died from debris from the impact.

I ask that everyone send a small prayer to the injured, and those who died and their families. Even though the pilot was 73 years of age- he was one of the best in the business.




Pete

Old 09-17-2011, 07:02 AM
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Default RE: P_51 Mustang crashes into crowds at Reno

I found this on another forum. Bob Button team manager for Voodoo discussing the separation of the elevator trim tab in 1998.

"Last year was very emotional," Button says, surveying the unlimited pits on Sunday morning, "For two reasons... One, obviously, we got ourselves into a real potential problem. In the previous two years, we had been building up the airplane, so there was no preparation time available to us. I also made some mental mistakes and allowed things to happen that shouldn't have happened." Indeed, pilot Bob Hannah had a wild ride when the elevator trim tab broke off the aircraft and pitched the racer up at approximately 10 G's. Hannah took a G-induced nap but recovered consciousness high over the race course. The flaps had been mis-rigged, and led to undesirable pitch trim forces. At the speeds they were flying at Reno, the tab was sticking way out in the breeze and it had fluttered off. "The second thing was; I had two years of coming up here and not taking home any money. We lost the ADI pump when Sherman Smoot was flying it in '97, and the trim tab in '98. It was some poor decision making I made. Those kinds of things are not going to happen any more," Button says. He is serious. "We're going to have a well prepared, tested airplane up here."
Old 09-17-2011, 07:02 AM
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Default RE: P_51 Mustang crashes into crowds at Reno

Very very sad. My condolences to the families of all who died in this terrible accident and prayers and strength to all recovering
Old 09-17-2011, 07:06 AM
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Default RE: P_51 Mustang crashes into crowds at Reno

My sympathies go out to the dead and injured. One thing about this crash is that it will probably be well documented. Not just from the witnesses and photos but with some hard data. I don't know for a fact that the "Galloping Ghost" was so equipped but a part of the multi million dollar investment in the unlimited racers is in telemetry equipment. There is a lot of real time monitoring and recording of what goes on with the airplane. Given the terrible nature of the crash I suspect that all of the data will be reviewed. Several other posters have cited the possibility of flutter. This may have contributed to the appearance of the tail wheel. The flutter or whatever lead to it may have also damaged the hydraulic system operating the tail wheel allowing it to drop but not truly extend. It's easy to do arm chair analysis but to really know we will have to wait for the data. Though I'm not yet an "older pilot" I do take exception to the many comments on the age of the pilot both with the exaggeration of his age and the implication that his reflexes might not have been up to par. While it's is true that our reflexes do degrade with age it is also true that the people who successfully engage in such activities often have above average skill and reflexes. I'm betting that the eventual conclusion will be that this age was not a factor.
Old 09-17-2011, 07:24 AM
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Default RE: P_51 Mustang crashes into crowds at Reno



Is it possible that the pilot had a heart attack or some crippling attack and that is what caused the plane to go vertical, causing to many G’s and breaking the trim tab off.. Not seeing the pilot in the pictures makes me think that something happened to him along those lines…



Very sad, my prayers go out to all effected by this tragedy. I seen the videos, horrific to say the least… Families there for a fun filled day and then that, might have just seen the end of Reno racing…



Jimbo

Old 09-17-2011, 07:46 AM
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Default RE: P_51 Mustang crashes into crowds at Reno

I hope everyone is wrong about Reno racing coming to an end due to this.  I saw a report this morning that said around 19 pilots have been killed there since 1964.  The pilots all know the risk.  My bet is that the spectators will be kept further from the actual flight path.  Same as is done at any Thunderbird/Blue Angel show.  I remember having the Thunderbirds fly right over the crowd many many years ago.  They have long ago stopped that pattern. 
Old 09-17-2011, 08:06 AM
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Default RE: P_51 Mustang crashes into crowds at Reno

If they do, I think we should insist that they ban NASCAR fir the same reason!
Old 09-17-2011, 09:13 AM
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Default RE: P_51 Mustang crashes into crowds at Reno

My Condolence's go out to all those that have family & friends effected by this tragic event, however to loose the choice to attend an event where we can see these planes doing what they were ultimately designed to do, see and hear them, smell them & in some respects touch them would truely be the disaster.
We as spectators expect to be entertained (get our moneys worth ) & if the aircraft were to far away or to high we would be disappointed, with the dont think i'd go again attitude, however we expect the pilots to expose themselves to great risk to them selves in order to entertain the masses & in the same breath expect to relinquish the fact that we have exposed our selves to danger due to the nature of our entertainment ( this seems to be the curse of our generations now ).
Alot of things we do now in the name of preserving life be it in our jobs our life style ( sporting & hobbies ) are only de skilling generations & denying us of things that use to be exciting/exhilarating.
Being in an industry that constantly strives for an impossible zero harm, when will we wake up & see that just about everything we do carry's risks & the un known factor is always going to be there.
It is tragic & a terible accident, however he passed doing what he obviously loved doing ...knowing the risks, & as unfortunate as it is, those injured or saddley killed on the ground were also there enjoying what they loved & at some stage we must all except that when we pay to see these dangerous events we also except the risks that things could go wrong.
I hope I have not affended anyone, these are of course just my thoughts, as some one who loves life, has suffered loss, loves his family & friends, but excepts we cant live forever so lets enjoy it while where here.

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