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Old 07-15-2013, 09:46 PM
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j301
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Default Bert Baker (Yellow) P 47 build help

Hello all, I recently came into possession of a 1/5th scale Bert Baker 80" P 47 and need some advice. I have kit built from stick kits/monokote covering in the past (way past) and usually stick to building arfs, or "barfs" (cmp, etc.). With it I received all the wood, plans, instructions (hand typed! And BRIEF!), all the fiberglass parts, canopy, and some great looking retracts. I actually took it in as part of a trade thinking I might one day get around to it, but the more I look at this thing, the more I realize this is a build from a seemingly bygone era, or specialty market (like the pro's use) that I don't think Ive ever even seen the workings/build steps to. I know it likely sounds easy to a lot of builders on here, but I can only say is that you would think a "simple car" like an early 1900's Reo - a box and engine - would be easy to drive, until you sit in it and look at all the levers, cranks, knobs, etc., and think "what the heck does that goofy Frankenstein knob on the steering wheel do?" (I know timing/spark, don't want side track here!)
So here is my dilemma; do I try and sell this and guess at the worth? Do I try and fumble my way through a build? Is there any forums, posts, boards, anywhere that might shed some light on some of the workings of this type of build? The fuse I can figure out, its the wings - positive and negative molds-sheeting-foam everywhere.... Balsa I understand, this is all foreign to me though.
Any insight/suggestions/opinions - any shove in a direction would be greatly appreciated!
Old 07-15-2013, 10:06 PM
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Default RE: Bert Baker (Yellow) P 47 build help

Hi

The Bert Baker P-47 is the same as the Yellow Aircraft P-47 for the most part. The BB was the First, with Yellow taking it and doing some improvement, and then selling it under their label. Still a very good kit.


Vince
Old 07-16-2013, 04:49 PM
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Default RE: Bert Baker (Yellow) P 47 build help


ORIGINAL: j301

Hello all, I recently came into possession of a 1/5th scale Bert Baker 80" P 47 and need some advice. I have kit built from stick kits/monokote covering in the past (way past) and usually stick to building arfs, or "barfs" (cmp, etc.). With it I received all the wood, plans, instructions (hand typed! And BRIEF!), all the fiberglass parts, canopy, and some great looking retracts. I actually took it in as part of a trade thinking I might one day get around to it, but the more I look at this thing, the more I realize this is a build from a seemingly bygone era, or specialty market (like the pro's use) that I don't think Ive ever even seen the workings/build steps to. I know it likely sounds easy to a lot of builders on here, but I can only say is that you would think a "simple car" like an early 1900's Reo - a box and engine - would be easy to drive, until you sit in it and look at all the levers, cranks, knobs, etc., and think "what the heck does that goofy Frankenstein knob on the steering wheel do?" (I know timing/spark, don't want side track here!)
So here is my dilemma; do I try and sell this and guess at the worth? Do I try and fumble my way through a build? Is there any forums, posts, boards, anywhere that might shed some light on some of the workings of this type of build? The fuse I can figure out, its the wings - positive and negative molds-sheeting-foam everywhere.... Balsa I understand, this is all foreign to me though.
Any insight/suggestions/opinions - any shove in a direction would be greatly appreciated!
Here is a link to my build of the YA P-47 that you have. I did a lot of mods to it that you may not want to do, and I explain why I felt they were necessary. . It does make a nice model and it flies very well at around 25 pounds. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8836329/tm.htm Good luck on your build.Dash
Old 07-16-2013, 04:54 PM
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Default RE: Bert Baker (Yellow) P 47 build help



I hope someone can help me on this irritating issue. On my previous post, and probably this one as well, RCU apparently is not recognizing my formatting. When I double space for a new paragraph, it just continues as if it was just another sentence.



This line was double spaced. I just made three clicks on the space bar...





This line was triple spaced.





Thanks for any assistance.





Dash





Interesting. The above looks as I intended it to. I wonder about this add-on?Dash
Old 07-16-2013, 06:27 PM
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Default RE: Bert Baker (Yellow) P 47 build help

Thanks for the info and the link Dash, I will definitely be studying that over the next couple of days. Scrolling through the pics, did yours come with the wings sheeted like that? There is no sheeting to be found in my box, only foam wing 1/4rs with what I would call negative molds (bottom "mold" concave, bottom wing 1/4 convex, top wing 1/4 convex, then top "mold" concave making a "square" with the wing in the middle if that makes any sense?) The retracts that were "made for it" are also a bit odd, the cylinder is facing away from the strut, 180 degrees from the "norm", would this setup even fit in a wing? Looking at your it would seem they would poke out the leading edge?
Anyway, thanks again and Im sure I'll have more q's after the read!
Old 07-16-2013, 07:32 PM
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Default RE: Bert Baker (Yellow) P 47 build help


ORIGINAL: j301

Thanks for the info and the link Dash, I will definitely be studying that over the next couple of days. Scrolling through the pics, did yours come with the wings sheeted like that? There is no sheeting to be found in my box, only foam wing 1/4rs with what I would call negative molds (bottom "mold" concave, bottom wing 1/4 convex, top wing 1/4 convex, then top "mold" concave making a "square" with the wing in the middle if that makes any sense?) The retracts that were "made for it" are also a bit odd, the cylinder is facing away from the strut, 180 degrees from the "norm", would this setup even fit in a wing? Looking at your it would seem they would poke out the leading edge?
Anyway, thanks again and Im sure I'll have more q's after the read!
J301,What you are describing are usually called the wing saddles. The foam wing is cut from the rectangles you mention. Take care of these, as you will need them when you sheet the wing. The Yellow Aircraft version, which I have, comes already sheeted. If you have never sheeted a foam core, I'll be happy too go through the technique with you. Since your wing is not already sheeted, you have a few options that I did not have. These would include where to put your servos, how to mount the gear, run the wires if you decide to go with nav lights, etc. The Yellow Aircraft kit comes sheeted, as I said, and the holes are already cut for the servo locations, and the gear mounting "pad" is already in the wing, and out of sight. That is why I took the time to check out the size of the mount and chose to replace it, as I felt it was too small.As for the gear, I got mine from YA and you can see them in my build. They may be different than what you have. As for the cylinder extending away from the gear , sometimes that is done to keep the profile, or depth, of the assembly thinner. I"M always happy to answer any questions you may have.Dash
Old 07-16-2013, 07:58 PM
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Default RE: Bert Baker (Yellow) P 47 build help

Hey Dash, was just skimming over your thread again when I notices this reply. Feel like I was just thrown in the deep end looking at what you did! Man that came out great, I really enjoyed what you did with the exhaust, its one of those things I try to incorporate whenever I can (my latest was on a Hangar 9 Hellcat in the pics) As for my ability's, I don't think Im close to being able to attempt a bird like this. I have never glassed anything bigger then a dummy radial or a refuel dot port to a cowl, or maybe a retract bay. I don't think I would be doing this bird any favors by trying to build it! Sure wish you were my neighbor, I'd be at your front door with 12 pack of whatever you like to drink (from coke to corona) and a notepad! I appreciate your offer to help though, and if I even knew the questions to ask I would take you up on it. Got anything else on the table right now?
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Old 07-17-2013, 04:59 AM
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Default RE: Bert Baker (Yellow) P 47 build help



Sorry I can't be more help.  It can become a real project!  I just get carried away sometimes, and I still marvel at some of the scale projects I see here on RCU!. 



I'm finishing up a 1/5 Scale Pica Waco now and it should be ready to maiden in a few weeks.





Dash

Old 07-17-2013, 07:32 PM
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Default RE: Bert Baker (Yellow) P 47 build help

j301, what did you use to 'solder' those exhaust extensions?
Old 07-17-2013, 07:58 PM
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Default RE: Bert Baker (Yellow) P 47 build help


ORIGINAL: tailskid

j301, what did you use to 'solder' those exhaust extensions?
430 deg. Metalwork silver solder/MAPP gas. It is a g26 muffler on a g20 with the "headers" J B welded on over the original (cut down) pipes.
Old 07-17-2013, 11:42 PM
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Default RE: Bert Baker (Yellow) P 47 build help

Thanks!
Old 07-18-2013, 06:18 AM
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Default RE: Bert Baker (Yellow) P 47 build help

No problem, and if you are wanting to build something like it, I ended up using copper only on the elbows, the tubing is the brass hobby stuff. The copper got way heavy, all you have to do is heat the copper part only, and carefully, and let the solder wick in, the brass is pretty thin and will goober up if you hit it directly with the heat.
Old 07-18-2013, 11:00 AM
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Default RE: Bert Baker (Yellow) P 47 build help

I have a NIB Yellow P-47 waiting for some attention I was planning on using an Evolution 45 up front. There is an excellent build forum on RCScale website. Let me know if you need a link.

Jerry
Old 07-18-2013, 12:22 PM
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Default RE: Bert Baker (Yellow) P 47 build help


ORIGINAL: tailskid

I have a NIB Yellow P-47 waiting for some attention I was planning on using an Evolution 45 up front. There is an excellent build forum on RCScale website. Let me know if you need a link.

Jerry
If your asking me, heck ya man, all the help I could get! If I can get a hold of enough information I would feel a lot better about bugging all you guys here by knowing at least what to ask!

Just for my own sanity, if I were to decide to sell this kit with the retracts and all, what is a fair ballpark? Not looking to walk away with a big profit, just want to be fair in both directions.
Old 07-18-2013, 03:36 PM
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Default RE: Bert Baker (Yellow) P 47 build help

Here is the link to RCU's 'Blue Book'

http://www.rcuniverse.com/product_gu...cfm?kit_id=568
Old 07-18-2013, 05:24 PM
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Default RE: Bert Baker (Yellow) P 47 build help

ORIGINAL: tailskid

Here is the link to RCU's 'Blue Book'

http://www.rcuniverse.com/product_gu...cfm?kit_id=568
Thanks for the link tailskid, looks like its in the neighborhood of what I had thought about asking. Being a yellow (the rcu book one) with the built wings probably makes it a bit more, but I figured the retracts and oleo's would make up the difference. Shipping would be a killer, would have to look at selling local I guess. Still would like to take a look at that build you were talking about if you ever come across that build link?
Old 07-19-2013, 12:43 PM
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Default RE: Bert Baker (Yellow) P 47 build help

check for a PM........

Jerry
Old 07-19-2013, 01:04 PM
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Default RE: Bert Baker (Yellow) P 47 build help

Thanks, got it. The site looks great, the only problem I have is the the wing isn't pre-built on mine (like the yellows) and that's the part I don't know how to do. (?)
Old 07-19-2013, 01:18 PM
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Default RE: Bert Baker (Yellow) P 47 build help

The wings aren't that difficult to do. The process involves: Gluing the cores together. The servo pockets are located and cut into the wing. See if someone has a Yellow wing that they could photograph the bottom side showing the location of the servo pockets. The wing skins are glued together. Once this is done you can use sorghum glue to attach the wing skins to the foam. This is a contact cement that works well. There are other adhesives that work too.. you can google or search on RCU. To keep the wings from twisting while the skins are setting up you place the wings with the skins on into the foam cradles you received them in and weight them with phone books etc..

Mark your cores so you know which core came from which cradle. This is really helpful to keep your wings and cores from getting mixed up.

Once the wings are sheeted you can attach the leading and trailing edges and the wing tips. Your flaps and ailerons are wood so that's pretty basic stuff.
Old 07-19-2013, 02:10 PM
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Default RE: Bert Baker (Yellow) P 47 build help


ORIGINAL: BobH

The wings aren't that difficult to do. The process involves: Gluing the cores together. The servo pockets are located and cut into the wing. See if someone has a Yellow wing that they could photograph the bottom side showing the location of the servo pockets. The wing skins are glued together. Once this is done you can use sorghum glue to attach the wing skins to the foam. This is a contact cement that works well. There are other adhesives that work too.. you can google or search on RCU. To keep the wings from twisting while the skins are setting up you place the wings with the skins on into the foam cradles you received them in and weight them with phone books etc..

Mark your cores so you know which core came from which cradle. This is really helpful to keep your wings and cores from getting mixed up.

Once the wings are sheeted you can attach the leading and trailing edges and the wing tips. Your flaps and ailerons are wood so that's pretty basic stuff.
As a display of my utter ignorance here (and thanks for the reply by the way!), the wings are foam with balsa sheeting? There is no spar? I also assume then you must build in some sort of gear box, would that need to extend from wing to wing? Im sorry to ask all this, but the "instructions" read like a list of buzz word reminders, and I missed the boat!
Thanks.
Old 07-19-2013, 02:16 PM
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Default RE: Bert Baker (Yellow) P 47 build help

Yep, no spar - the sheeting makes that foam as strong as a brick! The gear box will just be a hole partway in the wing to secure the landing gear - which by the way I haven't decided which one I want to install.......

Jerry

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