I want to build a war bird. Have lots of building and flying experience but no experience with war birds. I've looked at topflight .60 size kits and great planes but wonder about the true scaleness of them. I want somthing in the 65" to 80" range that can be glassed and painted. I'm thinking of using a rcv.90sp. I also want something with fixed main gear like a Zero or stuka to avoid the cost of retracts. Any other good warbirds with fixed gear? laser cut prefferably and light. I want to go with documentation and finish it to compitition level. The amount of work does not concern me I'm NOT SCARED!! just need a good kit to start with. Who makes it? Thanks in advance.

You customer support guys watching these threads feel free to shamelessly plug your products to my email address if you like.
[email protected].

Anybody got one they've lost intrest in or damaged they want to sell I'll listen to that as well.

Miloh.

You said you have lots of building and flying experience so there's probably not going to be a plane you cannot fly.

I am building a TF Sea Fury right now and is a great kit so far but it aint going to be light.
Not very many warbirds these days are going to turn up light.

Check out pica kits and maybe miester scale.
And I have also heard rumors of the top flite ZERO comming back.

David

Forgot to answer your main Question "How do you decide?"

My answer: The one you think is the coolest looking IMO.


David

There are not too many airplanes with fixed gear--or at least not in kit form. BTW, the Zero has retractable gear. You might want to look at the Skyshark kits. They have a 60" Stuka and a 63" Val kit availible. There is a thread in this forum for a build on the Val kit. I think it four pages long by now... It starts on page 2 in this forum (Warbirds). I remember reading a review on the engine you mentioned but I can't recall the power level. BOth of these kits would probably be good with a regular .90 4 stroke--I bet the 90sp would be great too. I have read very positive things about Skyshark's kits, just do a search on them too.

Hope this helps,
-Bob George

Not trying to prove you wrong or anything as I do know the zero's have retracts, but in the movie PEARL HARBOR, what are those zero's with wheel pants? Never seen them before untill then.

David

Yea the Zero does have retracts, I think it was the Val in the movie or somekind of torpedo bomber. I just know I have seen some jap planes that look like Zeros with huge wheel pants on them. As far as retracts go, do these high dollar retract units have a real dampining effect? I think they are called oleo struts. and some of the higher end fixed gear units look like they have moving parts too. Is this correct? All I have is a grass field to fly from and just don't want a lot of trouble from retracts but I want to build a true scale war bird and fixed wire gear just wont do. Like I said this is my first scale attempt and need loads of input to get off right.

Miloh.

a Top Flite giant scale kit has a good walk thru for building a first warbird but if you have building experience then I would suggest the Ziroli line of planes. Not much for building instructions but easy to figure out. As far as the retracts go just watch what brand you get. We use Barton Retracts and grass is not a problem for them. The Stuka is a nice plane but by the time you build or buy the wire frame and that expensive cowl and wheel pants your not saving much. You do realize the words competition level and saving costs don't fit well together Yes most of the retracts have scale oleo struts but if you don't want trouble I would avoid the rotating retracts as they are a little more troublesome than the straights. P-40 and F-4u both use rotating retracts.

Cost is not the big issue when it comes to the RIGHT kit and the engine. The problem with cost is a set of retracts that cost as much as the rest of the project and then they are a constant problem. fixed gear would aleavelate the worry all together. is this oleo strut the for lack of better discription like a shock? I'll look at the barton retracts. For the stuka, what is the wire frame you speak of??

Miloh.

Yes, those stuts you are talking about act like shocks and you should get them if you fly off grass.
CJM makes some good retracts from what I here so I think I will give them a shot.
Here is a link to the retracts I am going to buy for my sea fury.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXANV1&P=V

to me, those look great


David

The wire frame is a preformed set of wire landing gear for the Ziroli that cost a lot of money. They can be made by hand they are just a little more difficult to bend and weld than most simple wire gear. As far as the cost thing goes the retracts do run about as much as the kit but usually that is about a fourth or fifth of the project cost. You have the kit, retracts, engine (or engines), servos, and on last few I have done there have been optical isolators, power distribution system, batery backup system, fiberglass, paint at $40 a quart, tires, wheels, brakes, cockpit kit, all in all most of the giants I have done have been around $2000 a piece and I don't really consider them contest ready. Not wanting to discourage you because looking at your finished project is a great thing. Just be prepared for it not to be cheap. Good Luck with your project and If I can be of any help just pm me.

Most of the Japanese dive bombers and torpedo plans had fixed gear. The airplanes you are refering to were probably Vals. Most fighters had retracts, but there were a few with fixed gear at the start of the war. There was the A5M Claude (predessor of the Zero) and it was the subject of a building article in the November 03 issue of Flying Models magazine. It was designed at around 80" to use small gas engines. There is also the Nakajima Ki27 Nate for which plans and a laser cut wood package are availible from Reid's Models http://www.reidsmodels.com/products/products_set.html but it is also designed for gas engines around the 35 to 40cc range. There are probably more out there, but those and the Skyshark kits are all I can thik of.

-Bob George

1wolf-RCU:

Thanks for your input and concern, So far you have been very helpful. I do know the cost of all this stuff like I said I have built quite a few planes, Boats, Scale and full size, wood and glass. Mostly what I'm looking for are suppliers that I have not found yet and ideas for the plane I will build. I wanted to avoid the retracts only to avoid a costly proposition that would lend it self to constant problems. if retracts were $10.00 a set I would not care if I only got 1 or 2 flight on them but to buy them, spend the time to modify the wing and set up the system to have them end my day before it starts was the main concern. It looks like it will be a Val or a stuka unless somthing else shows up.
I also am limited to about 80 inches due to my building area and hauling capacity so the zaroli might be to big. but the skyshark is smaller than I wanted. What to do??? what to do???


Bruiser:
Thanks, I had not herd of Reid's before. This is what I'm looking for I guess I mislead the forum with "how to decide" It should have been "help me find"



Thanks everyone.

Miloh.

Ok I've seen this list of scale war bird kitters

Topflight
Skyshark
Great planes
Reid's
Hangar 9

Do any of you guys have others that kit 80" + or - warbirds with laser cut parts? Shopping for Mfg's please offer suggestions. I want something in a .90 to 1.20 size bird. does it exist?

Miloh.

Get a hold of Bob Holman's catalog. He has more plans sets than you would believe exists. Many have short kits available. i think this is your best shot.

I don't know of many 80 inch warbirds that will fly on a 120. I'm building an 80 inch Focke Wulf 190 that will weigh in the low 20 pound range. This is roughly typical for warbirds of this size.

Holman does sell plans, and I believe a kit, for the Fiesler Storch. It's a large plane that will fly with the motor range you desire.

Thanks Tom:

As you can see I'm new to war birds. I was assuming the step up from .60 size war birds would be to .90 to 1.20 size. What I am starting to understand and correct me if I'm wrong is that there are .60 size birds that will fly on anything from a .60 to a 1.20 if you cram it in there, and then it seems to jump up to gassers that require something in the range of a g62. maybe not this extream but there does not seem to be many if any in the 1.20 to 1.60 size. I just want something that flys bigger if you know what I mean than a 54' or 60' WS. I've done so many .40 and .60 size birds and then I went up to my 66 VF extra and 70' Citabria. now I want to do a war bird but I don't want to go back down and don't want a 40% either. I'll check Holmans again, I've been to their site before but don't remember anything that stood out there. I guess I will have to compromise but before I do I wan't to explore all options. I feel there are some out there that I have missed. I was hopeing for a laser cut kit.

Thanks, Miloh.

You left out Ziroli, and I would knock out great planes, and Hanger 9 only makes ARF's


David

I agree David, Those were the ones I was trying to stay away from, all of them in the list for various reasons.
ZAROLI...... Man they are so dam big!!! didn't want to go that big yet. I have looked em over and there is no doubt about the qualityof their plans but don't I have to find someone to cut it and then locate the glass parts i.e. cowls, canopys, and pants or spats? In my researce I have not found all this available at a one stop shop with Zarilo plans. If this is available I might look at Nick's plans again. any info to the contary would be very welcome.

I did go to Bob Holman's site and found this very thing. plans, glass accessories, and laser cut wood all in the range of $200 to $250 sold complete or seperate. the planes look good, spacificaly the Brian Taylor planes. Has anyone delt with or built and flown one of these babys? http://www.bhplans.com/index.htm see scale plans. Size is close to right and engine size is in line with what I'm looking for.

Thank you Tom C "you da man"

If I could find the plans and the cutter at the same location that would kit it for me to my desired size I could and would come up with the cowl and canopy and spats. I have the tecknowledgy to build these parts at any size and to scale with documentation. Didn't start out wanting to put this much effort into it. but If I must. NOW, Will cutters resize plans and cut to sute? anyone know?

Miloh.

80" cuts the cost down quite a bit, and actually i didn't mean to dwell on retracts actually the words "competition" scared me more than the retracts The use of retracts themselves don't really bother me as much as which retracts. I good heavy duty set can be very reliable. Top flite makes a nice 80" + Corsair but the retracts for it are probably at the top of the list for least reliable. The P-51 is nice and you could stay with a heavy duty set and be in good shape but it's a plane that is modelled a lot. Pica makes a great P-40 but again the rotating retract problem. I have a nice p-40 top flite that I won't fly because I don't trust the retracts so I understand where your going with that. But don't let them scare you completely away from a plane that you would like to model. It's more a matter of finding a reliable set. I am currently doing a Ziroli P-61 and it's going together great. The retracts I am using are from Gene Barton and have such a good down lock I really trust their reliability. I use kits cut by Laser Lizard and I have been very happy with them in both price and accuracy. You might contact him and see what he has in your size range. [email protected]

Check out Skyshark's Val @ www.skysharkrc.com. It's 63" span with fixed gear. I'm building one now and its a beautiful kit. Check out construction thread in this forum, or better yet check out the more detailed thread at www.rcscalebuilder.com. Another you might want to consider is the Airsail Chipmunk (scale trainer), also on my building board. Both should be well-behaved fliers.

Yes they can cut to custom sizes if they are laser it's pretty simple. Bob Holman seems to be a really nice guy to deal with. He helped me on a B-17 problem I had once and he was great. You can get most everything you need for the ziroli kits from Ziroli's website and Laser Lizard can cut the short kit. I prefer to get the short kit and pick out my own sheeting. Downsizing a kits main problem is finding the vaccum formed parts and canopies. If your into making your own that would solve that problem.

one more thing guys if you were going to build the typhoon at the top of this page http://www.bhplans.com/bt2.htm what would you use for retract gear? Why spring air over mechanical and vise/versa.

Miloh.

Listen to the little voice in the back of your head, Miloh.

All of us previous "sport-plane-guys" have some warbird we're a little crazy about and always wanted to build and fly. For me, it was the Corsair. Not the easiest or the simplest to build or fly, but I did it and I caught the bug and I'm still sick. Still have the Corsair, too.

Don't worry about the retract issue. If you don't want to mess with 'em now, put in the fixed gear and retro-fit them when you want to. It'll be a huge pain, but you'll learn a lot.

mt

1 Corsair
2 Zero's
2 Mustangs
2 P-38's
1 Fw-190

Order the scale plans catalog from Bob Holman. Its mostly copies of a bunch of catalogs. When I got mine, it was like reading a good book. Couldnt put it down for months. There are lots of 75" and 80" sized planes in there. And tons of plans that are not listed on the web site. I have a Holman (actually a Brian Taylor) 75" corsair mostly built that I got from a swap meet last year. Its very light with a glass fuse. The wings were'nt built with flaps so I'll definately change that and strip the moneykote off of it and glass it. Shindin machine will make a set of custom retracts for it. Power plant is stated to be from 1.50 to 1.80 4 stroke but I will try a ryobi 31 gasser since the cowl was already cut for a G-38. I'm sure he'll have something in the size you're looking for. I consider that catalog a gold mine amoungst all my other catalogs.
Edwin

YES! Shindin makes some very nice stuff too! Good Guy to work with! Stay away from mechanicals!! If your plane is going to way more than .. OH ...a pound maybe. (I'm even less fond of them than I am Robart rotating) As big a Ziroli fan as I am I would still say Holman is your best bet for the size your looking for.

Thanks guys, Loads of good info here I'm going to call Holman this evening and get a catalog. I'm sure I will not build a Corsair or P-40 so the rotating retract will not be a prob. I really like Hawkers, leaning that way but now I've got some direction.

Thanks, Miloh.