I'm just curious on which retract system is better. My wife is building a TF Spitfire and we have the Robert retracts that was recommended in the manual. I'm debating wether to start my TF P47 or the Pica 1/8 corsair. The P47 kit recommends either Century Jet or Robert while Pica recomends the Century Jet. I sent email to Spring air and they have retracts for the P47 but
not the Corsair. So, to make a long story short which retract system should I stick with.?

thanks

Dave

Spring Air if they make 'em for your kit, Robart if Spring Air doesn't make them, and Century Jet as a last resort. Regards, Chad.

I can second that Chad. CJ is the last resort.

TX

I thought the CJM's (rated to 12 pounds) would be better than the plastic-framed Robart 606HD's (only rated to 10). But, I did not have the best of luck with them in my P-47. Details at my webpage below. I hate to say this, but honestly, the stock wire gear that comes with the kit should be strongly considered before EITHER of the retract options listed in the manual or on Top Flite's webpage... especially if you fly from a rough grass field. Here is a pic of what the CJM's like to do the best (verified to me by several other people):


(click image for a bigger picture)

All is not lost though... I replaced them with a set of Robart 551RS's with #663L/R struts and I am now a very happy camper. Cost me $200 direct from Robart, part# 55085663. MUCH better quality than the CJM's. Fit great. Only exception is one mounting-rail had to be notched slightly to clear the air-nipple when installing the retracts. It would have fit cleaner if I had the Robarts during the building process instead of during a repair.


(click image for a bigger picture)

They are rated to 18 pounds, have a 7/16" strut, 3/16" axles, and fit 3.75" to 4" wheels. I went with the Robart diamond-tread 3.75", as that is the largest that will fit in the wing. If a person only wanted to run 3.5" wheels, they are also available with the #662L/R struts. These struts actually compress some with just the weight of the model (and have lots of travel left), where the CJM's needed a good hard push before they would move at all. They are not, however, a direct drop-in replacement for either the CJM or Robart 606HD gear... as the hole spacing is different. That wasn't a problem for me, as I replaced the mounting rails anyway. I also recommend angling the gear forward to eliminate any nose-over tendency (my P-47 had it bad).

I would have looked into the Spring Airs, as I've heard good things about them. But, I wasn't able to gather any useful information from their website and didn't want to have to call to get full dimensions and such. So, I went with the above Robarts and I am VERY happy. You might look to Spring Air for your Corsair, as Robart doesn't list a rotating retract in the 550 series.

After seeing this it makes me want to put Robart retracts in my TF-Spit now instead of the CJ. Hmmmm, guess i'll have to put up an auction on Ebay

i would strongly prefer the spring air over the robarts in the 60 size retracts- mainly because robart has the plastic frames which do not hold up. i would use the century jets for paperweights only.

for the bigger warbirds i would have to look at them case by case but i would generally give spring airs the benefit of the doubt, as their 400 series of retracts is very well made.

i have the 404 spring airs and the robart 622-5 retracts, and the spring airs have a better design - they are strong and fairly compact which makes them easier to mount.

ed

Hello All,
I am following this thread with great interest! I posted a similar question a while back and the same basic answers came to me also. Spring Air, Robart and try not to use CJ. I was set on CJ for my TF P51B-Stang but I am now convinced... Spring Air it is. I fly off of grass so I don't want my gear to be fouled. Anyone have a website for Spring Air? Thank you.
Justrfb

Don't even consider CJ, if the quality doesn't get you, the service will absolutely steam you, been there, done that. Spring Air's first, then Robart.

Vince

Spring Air's website is:

http://www.retracts.com

I have used nothing but Spring Air and I am not about to change. The feature that is the selling point for me is the positive down lock on loss of air pressure. All you need to do is land a nice scale plane with the gears not locked down and you become a believer real fast. I use the 3/16 inch struts as the only knock about Spring Air is the 5/32 wires seem to bend a little easier than they should. Another up side is less plumbing in the plane, so less chance for a leak. Good Luck, Dave.

I recently retrofit a set of Springair gear and Robart struts into a WM Chipmunk. You can see the pictures in my RCU member gallery. Click gallery button below . By the way, please don't ask me about the big bucks that I wasted on a set of 1/5 scale Bearcat articulating gear from CJ. I am sending them to a local machine shop for refabrication before they can be installed. Why not send them back to CJ? Well, it took 9 months and NUMEROUS calls to get them in the first place and they still arrived DOA.

TX

I think I got it! :stupid:
"Spring" pulls them down and...
"Air" holds them up. What a beautiful design. Eliminates one whole air circuit and can never fail retracted. Why was I thinking about using anything else
Justrfb

Does Spring Air make rotating retracts? (P-40, Corsair, etc..)?

They're not listed on their website so it appears not

If you haven't checked the Spring Air site recently you might want to give it a look at www.retracts.com. It's been updated with dimensioned 3-view photos of the various series so you can see if they'll fit before you buy.

Simple, strong design and good quality. And no, I don't work for them

Tom

i, too, like the feature of landing gear that will extend automatically if there is a failure of the primary air system... i have put this system on some of the gear i make, as both Bimba and Clippard make air cylinders with "spring return".... converting is just a matter of swapping cylinders.....
lennys/shindin
"shindin machine"shindin machine retract page

Spring Air gear are are the way to go. As mentioned in one of the earlier posts, they will lock down if you lose air pressure. They now have a line of .60 sized gear that uses their "oleo" struts. The struts have a large 3/8 diameter aluminum post that mates to the retract unit. No need to worry about bending tiny 5/16 music wire, these units are strong!

I've used them on my models with great success. My Top Flight 190D has scale length struts (9" long! Lengthened two inches more than the stock struts) and have proven sturdy and reliable. Also, as stated earlier, they require air pressure in only one direction (retraction) so the air cylinder is much smaller and easier to conseal. Use the Ultra Precision control valve to slow down the upward travel and to dampen the quick action of the gear extension.

SC

...........and at that moment, Daniel entered the Lions Den.


Before anyone starts throwing the rotten fruit and vegies, a customer is installing a set of CJ retracts in The Giant Scale P-47 Arf kit. They should be in the shop by Monday. I will keep you all posted on the performance. No punches pulled, with photos to document and landings count.

As I have stated before, if your install will allow it, go up in diameter size on the CJ for your aircraft. In this case we ordered 1/2" diameter struts.

Ray

I think CHad is pretty well on the mark. I just picked up a set of Platt 51 gear from Sierra Precision and they are beautifull perhaps once I use them I'll be able to recommend best. CJM is the last resort in my book. Service being the primary reason.

Chris

I've talked to Bill from Spring Air a few weeks ago and told me he was about to release a set of rotating retracts soon. I would give him a call and find out.
JG

Ray,
Do you have any comment regarding these customer service, delivery and quality issues? If there are any new reasons to hope that things have improved at CJ please let us know.

TX

I cant speak for Bruce or the other staff at Century, but I can offer another option..................me! I do my best to offer friendly service and support to the best of my resources.


Additionally, depending on what you may be after, I can offer attractive pricing as well. mostly on the full deluxe kits with retracts.

Ray

What I want to know is why Century Jet has not addressed the quality issues. Does Bruce not know what is said regarding his product? I guess as long as kit and plan makers continue to recommend them for their airplanes then people will buy them regardless. I had a rather poor customer service experience with them but in the end it was taken care of and my faith somewhat restored. However, I've had five sets of their gear at various times and ALL were/are substandard quality. With that record I find it very hard to justify sending them any more of my hard earned money. They do gear for some fantastic airplanes that I would love to build but until the quality issue is resolved I will not purchase their product.

This is my last comment on the CJ matter. Until REAL improvement is demonstrated, I refuse to build a plane that is dependent on retracts from CJ. I believe that the responses to this thread clearly show that CJ has not improved their quality or business practices yet. However, if someone has had positive experiences with their products and or services, I would like to hear from them.

TX

Chad and Texan, it sounds like we've had similar experiences and you've summed up my sentiments nicely.

I've got a couple of kits cut, even have a set of CJM gear for a Meister P-47, again the full kit is ready to go. My experiences with my Meister FW 190 and CJM gear turned me off to working on the P-47 and the issue isn't the Meister planes its the piss poor gear quality and the painful process of getting any satisfaction. It takes so long that you start hearing things like, you bought these a long time ago how can you expect us to fix it?

In the case of the 190 gear Bruce did eventually make good on them. I actually had to borrow parts from Dick Bernier and Ty Brown so that I could keep the 190 flying for the event. Those are two guys I recommend to anyone.

If CJM ever does improve the quality issues and if I start hearing consistently good things I'm going to buy a set of gear for my Al Masters Do 335, again the kit is already cut if not I'll talk to Darrell at Sierra and see what he can do. He's a lot more expensive but the gear look beautiful and from what I can see he really does want to take care of the customer.

I've had great experiences with Robart and Spring Air in terms of durability. I've never had to send either in for service, they just work so I can't say what support is like. The first set of CJM gear I ever bought in something like 91 or so was for a Bates Sea Fury. Those gear are pretty nice but thats a long time ago no satisfacation since.


Chris