Hello,

Over the past 5 years i've built a few gas trainers and electric warbirds like Modeltech's p-47 and my flying ability I think is ok, i've got like 20 hrs experience now. I'm ready for a more involved kit, definately a warbird. It's not the building that scares me as I think i've got the required skills to get through a real kit (top flite, yellow, etc) but from you guys who've built numerous birds, how do you deal with the fact that you could crash this thing on the first flight after say a month's, or years of work on it? that's whats holding me back... so on average and i know this depends on pre-flight and your ability to fly, but does everyone on average build with the expectation of something going wrong at say 10, 15, or 20 flights? and the plane being lost? or is it possible to keep these very detailed, beautiful kits safe? Knowing me i'm going to spend hours away from the wife in the garage painting rivets, weathering, etc. as I love that stuff - but the more time the more to worry about in the air!! how do you guys deal with that?

thanks.

After you've purchased you plane, keep browsing and looking for the 'other' one you want. That way when you destroy your current model you can at least look forward to the next one.

It follows that you should position yourself in such a way (financially, time, etc.) as to be ready for the next one BEFORE you even fly the one you have.

Then the stress is reduced because 'you wanted something else anyway.'

By all means do not fly it if you aren't prepared to lose it. Remember too, that most of the time you are only going to lose the airframe, which is financially, not as bad as the entire plane vaporizing along with your $1000 worth of 'other stuff.'

Assemble ARF's. Much less investement in time and effort, much less angst about flying.

Andy

thanks - good info from all. what p-47 arf is out now that you'd recommend... ? I was looking at the aerotech.. pricey but looks strong (the theme here)

Gees no offense guys, but that is interesting advice. I have been flying warbirds and other"hard to fly" planes such as GeeBees and 30's racers now for at least 10 years. I have lost only 2 of them. 1 to being "shot down" by another flyer on the same frequency (A Gee Bee Z with 30 or so flights). now it is always possible as I've just noted to lose a plane, BUT I have 2 airplanes flying 6 and 12 years each, both "hard to fly" Racers from the '30's a TF P-40 in its 3rd season with at least 50 flights and a corsair with over 50 flights in its first season alone.
Warbirds will last just as long as any other airplane, the key is to maintain the airplane and your piloting skills appropriately. I keep my airplanes in good shape taking care of maintenance items and being careful to always run my engines rich with enjough power that I don't have to peak the engine to make the airplane perform. I also fly them realistically. 90% of all Warbird deaths are Pilot inexperience. mostly because sport planes are light and can be hauled around like a Toy. Heavy metal isn't forgiving. I saw that exact example last night at our home field. a relative novice was horsing his trainer around which was fine, but I told him If you try to fly your heavy Astro Hog like that you'll snap roll it in. same goes for any short wing High power heavy airplane. fly it and maintain it properly and it will last you for years!

don't give in to the ARF bug Build a TF P-47 first and learn to fly Warbirds on it as it is the easiest to fly and the most forgiving plane. what I found invaluable to learning these planes was a healthy dose of flight time in full scale airplanes. learn to emulate the full size and you'll fly well and without mishap for many years.

Another good example is a friends Ziroli Corsair now in its 18th season, with hundreds of flights.
anyway Good Luck and read the rcwarbirds.com webpage on flying Warbirds. you'll learn a lot.
Mike

Hi go for it after all go to plastic scale if you want to look at something. The most important thing is a good radio with a good rx pack. many are lost to low voltage. Another thing is flying ability
get a low wing tail dragger(modify a goldberg eagle) Try a p-47 first the tf smaller kit is great and flys very well. Get help on firt flight and read all the posts here. Dont do a p-40 first you will auger that in faster than you can say crash

Tim

acentrella,
You are in the wrong hobby if you dwell on and worry about crashing. Build your Warbird to the best of your ability and Ask questions when you don't know something or you are in doubt about somenting. That's what RCU is all about! The first flight of any airplane is always cotton mouth/white knuckel time. The first thing is to have confidence in yourself and your own abilities. I recommend th Great Planes G2 Flight Sim to anyone with limited experience. It's also good for experienced fliers as well. I fly my G2 sim on a regular basis. I am always complemented on my flying at the field. There are a lot of Warbirds to chose from with the
included add ons that cover a large part of the spectrum. When you do build your Warbird and take her to the field be sure to have a check list and use it religiously! Real scale pilots do.
Check the frequency board before you ever place your transmitter in your hands, make sure the ailerons are moving in the right direction, perform a range check, top off the fuel tank, elevator up/down. rudder left/right, flaps working properly, air up the retracts if need be, etc...
Once she's ready, fire her up, taxi out, point her into the wind and take off! Stay calm and don't let anything you may have heard bother you. Trim her out and fly her. Your sim time will really pay off in your flying ability. Don't slow her down too much when landing until her mains are on tara firma. Use the assistance of a caller who is experienced and gets along with you. Good luck.
"Keep 'Em Flying!"
Flak

All good advice.

One of things that I do is to fly the plane before spending all the time putting in all the finishing details. If it flies -great (that is what I expect..)..if it doesn't, then I don't have thousands of hours of panstaking labour turned to splinters. The unfortunate side effect of this strategy, is that if the plane flies too well, I never get it back into the shop to finish it (I got 2 like that right now). One thing to consider is that the building is also an experience to be enjoyed, and not a neccessary evil to get through before you get a plane in the air.

As mentioned above, most all the crashes definitely seem to be pilot related. If you watch crash and burn videos you will see lots of examples of crashes caused by the pilot doing the wrong thing under the stress of the moment. Bear in mind that these videos focus soley on this negative aspect of modelling for "entertainment" purposes. Get lots of stick time on a heavy underpowered taildragger, or a flight sim..

Not much of advice there! An ARF is not a warbird. You could also to hang it up in your garage after you build it, that''ll keep safe for a long time. But what's the use ??
Acetrella,
You have to be able to enjoy the building as much as the flying and minimise the risks knowing that the chance to loose your " new baby" is always there. Reduce risks with more maintenance, preflight inspections, redundancy in Rx power and servos, etc. As you get more experience you will improve on the critical aspects of flying ( take off, landing) and take extra steps.
If you taking tips from Sport flyers or 3D-acro guys, be carefull as these pilots not always know how to fly the wing. Is not about over-power, is about knowing when the wing stops flying, the effect of torque at low airspeed, adverse yaw, etc.
To get information about these topics, get a real flight manual like Jeppesen or similar, don't just relay on second hand info that can confuse you even more.
Warbirds are a LOT of fun and challenging and I know of some that'd been flying after more than 300 flights.

There is a lot to learn but that makes it more interesting,
JG
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/warbirdscale/

I figure that as long as you have even ONE in-the-air photo a plane's never really completely lost. That moment in the air on its maiden flight will last forever in your memory and be worth all the time spent at the workbench! No one can ever take that away from you.

After that it's all gravy until you eventually, after 1 or a 1000 flights, auger in.

Here is what I have found , first I cant leave well enought alone , if its an ARF WW2 plane I will tweek it as much as possible to my likes and appearances.
Second they are not as difficult to fly as all of the experts will tell you . So many planes have bad habits and warbirds get a bad wrap .
I have found that if you take all of the time on every plane ARF or built to do the following you will increase your success, however very few beginners in the WW2 area will do this ,
1) Proper balance , not just forward and aft but lateral -wing to wing .
2) Make sure all servos have rubber gromets to buff vibration , pushrods are locked with the rubber hose they come with , set screws are locked with locktight , engine is buffered for vibration , all hindges are pinned , yes pinned with tooth picks or screws, make sure servo rails are expoied in place (not Ca) because sometimes the gabs exist and will not make good contact . Seal every flight serface with clear heavy duty tape , unless your flying presision scale(and exact deatil is a factor) this will reduce flutter and the plane will fly much better. Make sure you have no play in the push rod bindings, take the time to support pushrods where needed. Relace all crappy kits parts (ARF or kit built )with better proven products like Dubro ect . Make sure your engine and wing incidence and all flight surfaces are set properly , and everything measures up . Run at leaset three tanks thru your engine so you have low reliable engine throtle . Get a very good battery charger and discharger and possibly (a little trickler ) for $29 bucks its the best investmnet I have ever made , my transmitter and flight packs have never been better . Make sure all flight serfaces move at the suggested distances and not more or less based on flight tendancies . Reinforces typical areas in ARFs and kits where you know there is high stress with fiberglass. Lastly always ask a ww2 expeineced pilot for advice on the plane and take -off, I have found take offs much more busy then landing , remember I said busy not difficult . Ok so why all of this prep , beacause most real planes have the above factors built in or they have a crew that maintains there flight readyness. Mots modelers will crash for years and never learn why they crash . WW2s are easy to fly in my opinion but they require the TLC that is sometimes is forgotten after the learning years, especially in ARFs.

You never know when one will go in. I treat every flight like the last, emotionally. Be prepared. I see a lot of guys gets angry and down right mad when they go in. Sure, it is no fun, but it is part of the gig. Gonna fly 'em, gonna crash 'em. It's just a matter of time. All you can do is ensure proper maintenance techniques and proper set-up. The rest is up to the RC Gods....they get hungry often. Besides, what else would I do with my time and money

Thanks for all the responses - i'm definately going ahead with a real kit, just a little hesitant was all and wanted some opinion on LOSS.

My biggest recommendation is to make sure you enjoy the building process. To me...I have a great time building in my garage. If it crashed after 10 flights, I still had a great time. And if it was a good plane, you can build another in probably half the time it took you to build the original.


Mike

Remember the engine retracts and radio usually survive a crash pad the radio and battery with lots of foam. In 20 years of flying ive lost two airplanes that could not be fixed ive had lots of dings but all were fixable.

I like to remember why I'm doing this in the first place.......To have FUN....thats it......."Mindless Entertainment".......I have enough to be concerned about when it comes to the Job....family or whatever...........If I get overly worried about losing an airplane....probably should find another hobby.........all these models have "expiration dates".......if one flies them...........If you get concerned about crashing......build 2 of them.....one to hang up and one to fly.............Planes can crash @ any moment....for a variety of reasons............no rhyme or reason to it...........I learned real quick not to get too "emotionally" attached....its a recipe for hurt feelings for sure.......so I will build one or 2 somewhere along the way....just to hang-up................all else is being "Launched"....and along with all the fun I have with them.....from time to time.....I'll ReKit a plane...........and then build another.........so have lots of fun......thats what its all about anyway......Bill..........

Yeah..........what............he...........said... ..........

Hmmmm...well for me, if I'm building an airplane just for my own enjoyment and not for any type of competition, I just build it straight, and put a nice paint job on it with a touch of weathering. I don't worry about the details such as rivets and all the col stuff that doesn't make the airplane fly any better...ya know, the eye candy stuff. Okay, once in awhile I'll put on some panel lines just for fun...but nothing more than that. That way you don't have hundreds of hours or more of detailing...just tends to add to the pucker factor!
Well, that's my 3 cents worth.
Best of luck,
Rob Bailey / Pickupsticks

Pickupsticks,
Come on Buddy, who are you kidding? You enjoy looking at a detailed to the max model airplane as much as the next guy/gal. Try doing one that way, hang it from your ceiling, then see how long it stays there before you can no longer stand it and drag her to the field and cast her into the Wild Blue. However, I'm sure you didn't get your handle from perfect two wheel touch downs and three point landings in the center of the runway every time either. LOL. Just Kidding. The finish of every airplane brings out the character of the builder/flier. Have you ever noticed how people and their pets resemble each other? I believe that same thought process can be applied to fliers and their airplanes. Hey, watch out for the guy who shows up
with a B-52!
"Keep 'Em Flying!"
Flak