John_RedSox

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And I thought I was having a bad day.


http://www.teambanana.co.uk/b52crash2.wmv

CorsairJock

My Feedback: (90)

My guess: cloudy skies caused pilot to loose orientation, he thought it was turning right/ towards him, when in fact it was turning left/ away from him.
Yes, that's a very bad day.

John in Boston

My Feedback: (1)

John,

It looks to my non-expert eye that --barring a radio or mechanical glitch-- the pilot just plain stalled the gal out! From my safe vantage point here, it looks as though, on the pitch axis, the ANGLE OF ATTACK was too high!!!

From the start, the pilot did not allow the plane much of a takeoff roll before the pilot yanks her aloft with the elevator (instead of the letting the wing LIFT her off); she then mushes along, clearly on the edge of a classic excessive AOA stall, and then sure 'nuff it happens?

In an earlier (and happier) video of this model, the pilot just "yanked" her aloft on takeoff, just like so many RC fliers do with overpowered prop-driven models; if this was the same pilot, maybe that muscle-car approach is a hard habit to break?

And perhaps the announcer was a REAL distraction?

Ah, it is maddening to see such waste. Hopefully we all can learn from disasters like this one.

u2fast

My Feedback: (37)

j rood, we must be watching different videos. i see a model with plenty of roll out and well over 1000 ft fly out before a gentle turn. he certainly was not flying on the edge of a stall 3/4's of the way through the first circuit. anyway, go to the jets forum for the story. the pilot chimes in there. barry

CorsairJock

My Feedback: (90)

I'll stand by my original guess. It appears the B-52 began to bank left, probably due to windy conditions. Under cloudy skies, it can become difficult to determine which side of the aircraft you are looking at when it banks: top or bottom? In this case, the pilot was looking at the bottom, but THOUGHT he was looking at the top. Thus, even tho it was banking left, he thought it was banking right. When he observed the bank, he attempted to correct/ level off. But since it was already banked left, his correction made matters worse very quickly, thus it rolled to it's left side, and then the inevitable.
Been there, done that, but with a much less expensive aircraft. I have since learned to concentrate a little harder (maybe more difficult with a PA system/ announcer fillingyour head) under such poor visibily conditions, and rely on what was last known atitiude rather than how it may appear at the moment.

SBR_RV

i will defiantly go with what corsair jock has said.
dang u get confused which way its going just watching the video.

John in Boston

My Feedback: (1)

Barry,

Like I said, I am no expert, and on top of that, I'm a crummy Monday (or Friday) morning quarterback. However:

1.) Though I overstate things by saying the pilot "yanked" the model off the ground, I still say the airplane should have been given a longer takeoff roll. It was just a dicey way to begin the flight! Especially in gusty conditions, and with a tricky airplane vulnerable to so many different potential threats.

No 1:1 scale B-52 would be asked to rotate and head skyward that soon!

So, for me, the model could've used several more knots groundspeed there, and then a more shallow, more penetrative angle of climbout.

2.) Yes, turning downwind the climb angle looks shallow, and that turn DOES appear gentle, but --all things considered-- the stall angle/airspeed threshhold there was likely very low. To me, the takeoff and subsequent turn laid the groundwork for what looks to me to be a STEEP angle of attack just immediately prior to the (sudden) stall.

Doug D.

Ouch !!!!! That's going to leave a mark !!!!

a65l

My Feedback: (17)

I saw the video of the first flight of that a/c, or at least another flight, and he sure left it on the ground a LOT longer. Not to mention his climbout was a lot less steep. Of course, he was flying off a full sized runway, with considerablly more room than he had at that airshow. There's a thread going on in the crash forum about this as well.


Andy

SDCrashmaster

The discussion of this in the jet section has covered every possible angle and scenario.
The NTSB will probably be using that thread as a talent pool to search for new investigators.
In ither words, it's been beaten to death.

t_burley

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LOL paul BTW, love the vid of Kenny's F18!

flyinrain

My Feedback: (25)

The full size version is a handful to fly so I'm sure this was no different. The wind was blowing fairly hard and the airplane was going down wind when it went in to its fatal turn.

I also heard the B52 does not have ailerons. It uses spoilers which would reduce the ability to turn the airplane or in this case to get out of a steep bank.

Not sure of the weight of this airplane but most jets have a high wing loading which means you need to keep the speed up or

John_RedSox

My Feedback: (75)

Who cares if it has been "beaten to death?" From the looks of it, not all people have seen the thread, plus I like to get other peoples oppinions.

CorsairJock

My Feedback: (90)

If one feels this thread has been beaten to death, stay away from it then. From what I have seen, there is a lively discussion on the cause of this accident, and we all can learn from the mistakes of others. One of the surprising points that I have seen is that it appears that many R/C'ers have NOT encountered loss of orientation (due to impaired visibilty). Hopefully, a few of these will become more aware of it and the circumastances that lead up to it.

flyinrain

My Feedback: (25)

The discussion in the jet section was very interesting on disorientation. Couldn't believe how many people felt the airplane bank left versus right. After watching the video several times I still felt it bank left. People at the event said it bank right which is amazing. There is something to be said about flying at least two mistakes high with a new airplane or one you are trying a new maneuver.

Falcon Jet

I thought it was banking to the left myself, but irregardless, whether this has been beaten to death or not, it still sucks. What a lose of a beautiful plane.

Chris.