Hello
Well I just started my warbird, cut from a prominent and respected kit cutter, and I found that the crutch peices were warped, and almost every notch on the formers had to be enlarged (and there's a lot of notches on a Hurricane!). Then, when I started stringing fuse stringers, I found that the notches did not line up and so several stringers had that "wavy" look to them, which, since the rear fuse is fabric covered, would show. I finally got so frustrated that I chucked it. I've emailed the company to see what they'll do for me, but I'm curious as to what others have experienced.
Depending on the reply from the company I'll probably go with a laser cut short kit, based upon some advice I got. I'm a bit leery of continuing on to the wings and empennage if notches don't line up, etc. on the ribs. When I read other's reviews of kits cut by this company, they all rave about the good cutting, packaging, etc.. Is what I'm experiencing considered the norm?
Thanks in advance,
Sam

You should tell us who's plans they are (that will tell you a lot!), hand drawn plans as apposed to computer 3D drawn is a huge difference. When a kit cutter uses a band saw to cut a kit he is just copying the plans, so the kit will only be as good as the plans. When a laser cut kit is made from the same plans the plans are first scanned into a computer, there they can be checked for accuracy and modified as needed. I'm not an expert on this it's just my take on it, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Dion

Hi Sam, That s@#ks...I've encountered that at times myself. If it is a reputable cutter, they should make good for it. But as Dion say's a lot does depend on the plans and the method of cutting. It would help if you let us in on who's plans and who the cutter was??? There are lot's of serious builders here, and I'm sure you would quickly find it if was a fluke or a common problem with the plans or cutter. Lately I've been doing lot's of pondering on this subject myself...I've never gone the "short kit" route but it's making lot's of sense to me ther more I think about it. Also, my next bird is going to be a "laser cut short kit"...this will allow me the opportunity to select my own wood for the sheeting, etc.

As for laser cut vs. hand cut...they both have their positive and negative points. The thing with laser cut, if there is an error, it usuall tends to be consistent, where with a hand cut...there could be an error on 1 or 2 pieces and the rest could be perfect. I guess I've been stubborn...I've always gone with hand cut up until last year...there are a few cutters that I won't deal with anymore though who I won't mention at this time. However, there is one hand cutter that is truly outstanding and I wouln't hesitate to buy their products or recommend them to others...they are "The Aeroplane Works". Mace Gill and Co. do truly outstanding work, and they stand behind their products 100%. As for laser cutting, I haven't used these guy's personally yet, I will very soon though, Laser Lizard...I have heard nothing but good things about this company.

So I reckon in short, what I'm trying to say is this...find one or two reputable cutters and stick with them whenever possible. Yeh sometimes you want to do a project that they don't cut...and you don't have the extra $$ handy to get a "special order" done. then you are forcd to either cut the wood yourself, or go with whoever cut's it.
I guess I'm done now...sorry, I tend to ramble on sometimes...
Rob / Pickupsticks

Hello again,
Well, the plans are from Roy Vaillancourt, and the kit was cut by PCK. Now that I've mentioned the company, I will definitely post his response to the problem. I have to say I don't know that I'm confortable going ahead with wings and tail. My building time is pretty scarce and precious, so I'd hate to spend mucho time and then run into another problem. I've emailed Jesse at Laser Lizard and conveyed my interest in his short kit, and he has already emailed back.
Thanks for the feedback, and I'll keep you posted.
Sam

I would think that the plans, regardless of how they were cut, are a little off. I can't say who caused it , Roy or PKC but that's got to be the issue. I do know that PKC offers two types of kits, Hand cut and Laser cut. The hand cut kits are the older style kits. Perhaps that's what you have. Larry K. is an upright guy so I think he will make good as best he can. Good Luck.

Sam I had Jesse cut a short kit for me and received flawless parts. The plans were from W. Hostetler and the plane is a 126" Stinson SR-10.
Living where I do in the DFW metroplex I prefer short kits so that I can select the balsa for the framing and sheeting. On the other hand, those that do not have easy access to to a balsa supplier probably do better with a full kit.
However in 50+ tears of building I cannot remember a single time that I did not replace some of the supplied wood.

This is definitely one of the hand cut kits, and I'd guess they use templates. Maybe the templates have gotten a bit distorted over the years, or maybe they rotated on a few of the formers, just enough to throw off the alignment of the cuts. I'm sure Larry will not let me down, but I'll still get the short kit from Jesse. Who knows. Maybe I'll end up with two Hurris, one to fly and one to.....
Thanks for all of your input and feedback. This forum is fantastic!
Sam

Sam, if your building the Hurri, check the threads here on RCU for info on the CG. Seems as thought there was some issues regarding the flying of the Hurri and its relationship to the CG.

Hi Bob
I've been following as many Hurri threads as I can, and although I haven't heard anything in the last week or two, I've been keeping track of some of the pitfalls. Seems like I will need to watch tail weight, allow for enough elevator movement, watch my incidences, and quadruple check the CG to make sure its far enough forward. It's great to be able to "talk" to guys who are working on the same project, or have already been there, done that, and are willing to give you the benefit of their experiences. I can't say enough how much I enjoy this "interactive magazine".
Sam

Laser or hand cut does not matter much. I beleive it just makes the cutter more flexible in that he can make runs of one with out losing as much setup time. The precision of the part is what counts. I received an Ziroli Ercoupe cut from The Aeroplane Works. The cut was PERFECT. Not tight or loose. The part needs to be tested after the cut in an actual build. If all works then you have something special. I would expect problems if you just scan plans in and do a laser cut with out checking afterwards that indeed every thing is as should be. I also have some laser cuts from Bob Holman. I have not been able to put these together yet.

Carl

Just found this thread and I will share a few notes.

Someone said that CAD plans and a laser cutter will check for accuracy. Well.....someone hand cutting from hand-drawn plans SHOULD be checking for accuracy also. We had a big problem when we first cut kits for Rich Uravitch's D-VII....it was computer drawn, but it was WAY OFF!!!!

It took us some time, we had to tell our customers "the parts don't match the plans in this section or that, but they are the parts that make an airplane" Rich, my old man, and I got it all sorted out in time and now the plane is just fine.

Regardless of what system you use (although I have many reasons to like hand-cut over laser) the key is attention to detail. Mistakes DO HAPPEN to everybody from time to time (between the designer, the kit cutter, the builder etc) but the key is to pay attention and to stand by your product.

Larry has a pretty good rep (by the way....I thought he used lasers). Once you let him know what is going on I am sure he will make things right. You might also want to start a thread just about the Hurricane plans to see if anyone (particularly scratch builders) have run across accuracy problems (I have not cut kits from these drawings and do not have first hand experience).

Mace Gill
The Aeroplane Works
http://www.theaeroplaneworks.com

DaddySam,
I too had some problems with alignment and warpings. I did not check the plans (it was too late). I just made corrections as I went. The good news, it still went together pretty fast considering all the stringers. I have a kit (Z-SkyRaider) from Mace and a Bates Wildcat Kit from PCK and both are a great product and would do buisness again with them. It might be the plans. BTW, my Hurri was a PCK kit.
CHuck

p.s. My Skyraider kit was bought second, here on RCU, and Mace said he would still guarntee the kit. Hows that for business!

Just a quick update. No word from Larry at PCK, and I've got the short kit now from Jesse at Laser Lizard. The short kit is wonderful. The parts are all cut well, and all of the markings that you'd find on the plan drawings for the part are etched onto the part. I've got some Honey Do's to finish now before I re-start on the Hurricane, and Chuck, I'll be calling for advice.
Thanks all.
sam

I got a call from Larry at PCK the other day, and he said that this is a common problem associated with cutting kits from plans. I told him I had never read about anybody else having this kind of problem when I read a review, and he seemed to think that perhaps it was too basic an issue to mention, and that all experienced builders from plans probably were already aware of it. Anyway, he offerred to send me the fuse formers, but said that it could not be any time soon due to work in progress. At any rate, Larry stands behind his products, and I guess I can't ask for more than that. But given a choice I'll go with a laser cutter like Jesse in the future, because the parts are so precisely cut and marked so well.]
Happy Thanksgiving all.
Sam