Platt Zero
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Platt Zero
I bought one of the last complete kits from Dave Platt two years ago and its collected enough dust. I also got a retract tail wheel from CJ. It will be a grey A6M3 HAMP. I am installing the rudder and elevator servos now.
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RE: Platt Zero
The CJ tailwheel weighed 70 grams and I think this is going to cause me to add ballast to the nose so I milled out the center and got rid of 20 grams. I will replace the steel axle and brass clamps with aluminum and use a punch to hold in place by spreading the ends. I will use pull pull on the rudder and hopefully lighten by 10 - 12 grams. I replaced some hard wood in the tail and lost 8 grams. I am using contest balsa for planking. I think I will hollow out the formers also. I bought the cockpit kit and pilot also. The pilot is very heavy but quite detailed. Hopefully I can make a good sliding canopy but not powered. I intend to install flaps as our field is not of great length and have had success in a couple of other models. I know I will need to mix down elev with flaps.
Carl
Carl
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RE: Platt Zero
Carl,
I built two of these models a while back and very good success with them. I also did the A6M3 clipped wing version. Mine ended up flying the best with the CG a full inch ahead of where Dave shows it on the plan. It took 2lbs of lead in the cowl to make it balance, and I was as careful as you are being with weight aft of the CG. With the nose ballast it weighed 18 lbs, and flew fine on a OS 108. It will fly with the CG further aft.....but it lands and ground handles much better with it forward. Oh.....one other thing I did that may help you. I had trouble on the first model with the ailerons fluttering....it almost ripped the wing apart. On the second model, I buried lead shot in the leading edges of the control surfaces. Since the hinge line is quite a ways behind the leading edge, this helped balance the surface and I had no flutter problems. Good luck!!
PS.....I have another one framed up, and hope to finish it later for my son to fly in Team Scale. Think I will do a A6M5 this time.
Jeff
I built two of these models a while back and very good success with them. I also did the A6M3 clipped wing version. Mine ended up flying the best with the CG a full inch ahead of where Dave shows it on the plan. It took 2lbs of lead in the cowl to make it balance, and I was as careful as you are being with weight aft of the CG. With the nose ballast it weighed 18 lbs, and flew fine on a OS 108. It will fly with the CG further aft.....but it lands and ground handles much better with it forward. Oh.....one other thing I did that may help you. I had trouble on the first model with the ailerons fluttering....it almost ripped the wing apart. On the second model, I buried lead shot in the leading edges of the control surfaces. Since the hinge line is quite a ways behind the leading edge, this helped balance the surface and I had no flutter problems. Good luck!!
PS.....I have another one framed up, and hope to finish it later for my son to fly in Team Scale. Think I will do a A6M5 this time.
Jeff
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RE: Platt Zero
Jeff,
Thanks for the CG tip! Sounds like I will be over powered. My Claude flys well at 17.5 pounds with a Saito 180 and I thought the Zero could use a bit more. May be I should get another FTE heavy dummy cyl for ballast. I will try to add some weigth to the leading edge of the ailerons also. I sure don't want flutter. I saw a Mustang at WOD this July with flutter that tore the wing apart. He got it down safely but I don't know how.
Carl
Thanks for the CG tip! Sounds like I will be over powered. My Claude flys well at 17.5 pounds with a Saito 180 and I thought the Zero could use a bit more. May be I should get another FTE heavy dummy cyl for ballast. I will try to add some weigth to the leading edge of the ailerons also. I sure don't want flutter. I saw a Mustang at WOD this July with flutter that tore the wing apart. He got it down safely but I don't know how.
Carl
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RE: Platt Zero
Its four hours later in build time. I have the motor mounts in, servos for rudder, elevator and retracts. I decided to use the air retract servo to drive the tail wheel. Its rather tight in the tail with all the moveable parts and I had to rearrange the rudder horn higher to get rid of clearance problems. I use silver braze and did catch the balsa on fire a tad bit. I hate when that happens.
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RE: Platt Zero
I managed to get another 4-5 hours today. It doesn't happen often so here we go. I removed the centers of most of the formers and measured some of the removed pieces at 7 grams. I would guess total is about 20 grams removed from aft of the CG. I should have the fuse planked by tomorrow night. I get to fly Sat and Sun. I plan to fly my Claude tomorrow.
Carl
Carl
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RE: Platt Zero
I flew the Claude Sunday and greased the second landing, its an honest plane to fly. I have the planking finished and am somewhat happy with the results. Of course I did better on the bottom. Next up, rough in of the tail group and cone. The Zero is at 3.52 pounds including 3 servos, air valve and motor mount. I need to fix some dings on other planes and then vacation so it will be light on progress until the beginning of Sept.
Carl
Carl
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RE: Platt Zero
I was working on the tail wheel retract from CJ last night. Platt shows a square tube for the horn attachment at the pivot point. CJ uses a pressed rod with set screw lock. The press fit is rotating in the retract structure. That just will not do. I will make a new horn that fits inside the structure from G-10 and JB Weld it in place so that the control rod hole is in the proper place. In hind sight I think this should have been the way it should have been made all in on piece. I might replace the steel rod with aluminum to save 1/2 gram.
Carl
Carl
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RE: Platt Zero
Tonights adventure. I decided to make a horn and insert it in the tail wheel frame. I removed some more aluminum and now the assembly weighs 36 grams. I started at 70 so I am real happy about that. From limited load testing it looked like the forward part of the horn wanted to part company so I pinned it.
I use a Multiplex Profi 4000 transmitter and had planned to using a spare 12 channel receiver in this plane. Something was wrong with the receiver so I sent it to Ernie Pritchard. What a great person to deal with!
I used a Hitec 5625 for elevator and it doesn't work! Brand new [], its possible that it killed the other receiver and now I seem to have a problem with channel 2. I put a Hitec 545 on the elevator through channel 9, works but I lost my flap/elev mix.
Carl
I use a Multiplex Profi 4000 transmitter and had planned to using a spare 12 channel receiver in this plane. Something was wrong with the receiver so I sent it to Ernie Pritchard. What a great person to deal with!
I used a Hitec 5625 for elevator and it doesn't work! Brand new [], its possible that it killed the other receiver and now I seem to have a problem with channel 2. I put a Hitec 545 on the elevator through channel 9, works but I lost my flap/elev mix.
Carl
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RE: Platt Zero
Carl the Zero is looking good .nice work on the tail wheel asm. I didn't make mine retractable. Ernie has fixed a couple radios for me . He is a nice guy. He only lives about 90 miles from me. Rich
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RE: Platt Zero
Good to hear from you Rich. Ernie is just great. I think this config will work well for the tail wheel. I hope its strong enough, time will tell. At least I removed 1/2 of the weight. What engine do you have in yours and did it require much ballast in the front? I would like to be able to make my own tail wheel but skill and time are lacking.
Carl
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RE: Platt Zero
Hi Ken,
I had some time today so here is the progress report. I should mention first a few areas where I made some mistakes:
1) When I glued the engine carrier beams in I did not clamp them together with a straight edge. I usually use a aluminum mount. I did not get them parallel so I had to fix that.
2) I have something wrong with the hort stab/elevator. The trailing edge is further back than pictures show. The elevators might be to long in cord[:@]
3) I tied the pull pull for the tailwheel to the rudder. After I mounted the tail cone and extended the tail wheel I noticed interfernce at the horn and can not get all the extention I wanted. I shortened the kevlar thread by twisting and glueing. I believe it would be better to make the tail wheel frame from sheet aluminum. I had to do to much work to make the $150 CJ wheel work and its still not perfect.
4) The rudder came out a bit fatter than the vert stab. DANG!! I padded the sides with 1/64 ply and smoothed with filler.
Thats quite a list [&o]
Well I have finished the rear mostly and decided to put some ballast in the front (OS 160). I had to rout the center of the battery box to make room. I had Bisson mod their Pitts muffler to an upright. They put the pipes close together. I will have to figure out how to get them to exhaust in the scale position or close anyway.
Seems like a lot of folks don't put the battery as far forward as possible to negate adding ballast to correct a tail heavy plane. Platt has an excellent method here and I have used this idea on a few models to great advantage.
Next up will be the throttle servo and C-tronics glow driver that I use in all my planes. Then I will glass and epoxy the engine bay area for strength and fuel proofing.
I am thinking about the cowl and decided to leave most of the front fiberglass in place. Just a hole in front of the engine and the rest painted black. There will not be much area to see the radial with the large spinner. I think I will use the method from the Claude and mount the cowl from the front with 1/4 28 socket head bolts. The spinner would cover this and then I have no visible cowl mounting screws.
I have not decided about the on/off yet. I have been using the MPI HD switch. It works well but is so large. I will either make a cover and put the switch on top of the fuse or try to hide it underneath. On the Claude I am not using a switch I just have the wires hanging at the split between the cowl and fuse. I am not convinced that is a good idea but it does have advantages.
Carl
I had some time today so here is the progress report. I should mention first a few areas where I made some mistakes:
1) When I glued the engine carrier beams in I did not clamp them together with a straight edge. I usually use a aluminum mount. I did not get them parallel so I had to fix that.
2) I have something wrong with the hort stab/elevator. The trailing edge is further back than pictures show. The elevators might be to long in cord[:@]
3) I tied the pull pull for the tailwheel to the rudder. After I mounted the tail cone and extended the tail wheel I noticed interfernce at the horn and can not get all the extention I wanted. I shortened the kevlar thread by twisting and glueing. I believe it would be better to make the tail wheel frame from sheet aluminum. I had to do to much work to make the $150 CJ wheel work and its still not perfect.
4) The rudder came out a bit fatter than the vert stab. DANG!! I padded the sides with 1/64 ply and smoothed with filler.
Thats quite a list [&o]
Well I have finished the rear mostly and decided to put some ballast in the front (OS 160). I had to rout the center of the battery box to make room. I had Bisson mod their Pitts muffler to an upright. They put the pipes close together. I will have to figure out how to get them to exhaust in the scale position or close anyway.
Seems like a lot of folks don't put the battery as far forward as possible to negate adding ballast to correct a tail heavy plane. Platt has an excellent method here and I have used this idea on a few models to great advantage.
Next up will be the throttle servo and C-tronics glow driver that I use in all my planes. Then I will glass and epoxy the engine bay area for strength and fuel proofing.
I am thinking about the cowl and decided to leave most of the front fiberglass in place. Just a hole in front of the engine and the rest painted black. There will not be much area to see the radial with the large spinner. I think I will use the method from the Claude and mount the cowl from the front with 1/4 28 socket head bolts. The spinner would cover this and then I have no visible cowl mounting screws.
I have not decided about the on/off yet. I have been using the MPI HD switch. It works well but is so large. I will either make a cover and put the switch on top of the fuse or try to hide it underneath. On the Claude I am not using a switch I just have the wires hanging at the split between the cowl and fuse. I am not convinced that is a good idea but it does have advantages.
Carl
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RE: Platt Zero
Looks like I will be repairing the Claude for a couple of weeks. I pushed a bad take off and it rolled over to the left and cartwheeled into the ground. There is a far amount of damage to the wing and fuse. It was a hard hit but it stayed together except the pilot and prop. At least I built it tough.
Carl
Carl
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RE: Platt Zero
Carl sorry about the Claude. On my Zero I have a YS 12o fs in it right now. still no servos , just a couple. I don't think it will take much to ballance it . Maybe 2 lbs at the very most. With the beam mount you are limited to your engine choice. I made my cowl one piece. Rich
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RE: Platt Zero
I was thinking I was at the top end for engine power. I guess a Saito 170 would be perfect except for $$$.
I have almost completed the surgery on the Claude. One more place to patch and I will be finished with epoxy and glass. Hopefully I can remove some blemishs in the original finish. Its one tough bird and that's a good thing
If I have to add lead at least I have lots of wood forward to screw it to. If I manage to mount the cowl from the front then I could add copper wire and epoxy to the inside of the cowl.
Carl
I have almost completed the surgery on the Claude. One more place to patch and I will be finished with epoxy and glass. Hopefully I can remove some blemishs in the original finish. Its one tough bird and that's a good thing
If I have to add lead at least I have lots of wood forward to screw it to. If I manage to mount the cowl from the front then I could add copper wire and epoxy to the inside of the cowl.
Carl
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RE: Platt Zero
Rich,
I use 5 cell packs either 1100 or 1700 with Hitec servos. On the Claude I used 525's at 57 in oz on the ailerons and outer flaps with a 5625 for the center flaps (three total). I think I have a 545 at 76 in oz for rudder and 5625 at 100 in oz on elevator which is very small in area (probably could use a 545 here). So far it seems OK but I have only 15 flights on the Claude. I try to fly it in a scale manner and its not that fast. The Zero has larger surfaces and it will have more power than the Claude. I use more servos than average (8) and am concerned about current draw. Hitec lists the 5xx series at 250 ma which is about as low as they get. Coreless are the same but much more expensive so I have yet to use them. I was not in the hobby in 1983 but I don't think the servo selection was very good and not that powerful.
I just finished with primer on the Claude. Lots of sanding then latex than System3 and it will be repaired. I think the fuse will be a bit better but I lost the good fit at the filet on the right side because of the major crack, I glassed inside and out for the repair. I will make a new canopy and add vent slots in the fuse behind the firewall for improved scale appearance. I should add 1/2 round at the dihedral joint in the wings. Then back to the Zero. I will use a 5625 on the elevator of the Zero.
Carl
I use 5 cell packs either 1100 or 1700 with Hitec servos. On the Claude I used 525's at 57 in oz on the ailerons and outer flaps with a 5625 for the center flaps (three total). I think I have a 545 at 76 in oz for rudder and 5625 at 100 in oz on elevator which is very small in area (probably could use a 545 here). So far it seems OK but I have only 15 flights on the Claude. I try to fly it in a scale manner and its not that fast. The Zero has larger surfaces and it will have more power than the Claude. I use more servos than average (8) and am concerned about current draw. Hitec lists the 5xx series at 250 ma which is about as low as they get. Coreless are the same but much more expensive so I have yet to use them. I was not in the hobby in 1983 but I don't think the servo selection was very good and not that powerful.
I just finished with primer on the Claude. Lots of sanding then latex than System3 and it will be repaired. I think the fuse will be a bit better but I lost the good fit at the filet on the right side because of the major crack, I glassed inside and out for the repair. I will make a new canopy and add vent slots in the fuse behind the firewall for improved scale appearance. I should add 1/2 round at the dihedral joint in the wings. Then back to the Zero. I will use a 5625 on the elevator of the Zero.
Carl
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RE: Platt Zero
I am back to the Zero. I started the right wing. I tried unsuccessfully to slice the edge of my finger off while making a new W16 which is the trailing spare past the flap rib. I did clamp the LG mounts in the same plane before glueing. I will reinforce this area with glass and epoxy after both sides of the wing are framed. I will be installing flaps as we have a somewhat short run way.
I read else where that Vailly recommends minimum servo requirements for his 90" 30lb FW190 at 60in/oz for ailerons and 120in/oz for rudder and elevator. From this I gather that 100in/oz for a 20lb Zero will be good for rudder and elevator and 60in/oz for ailerons.
Carl
I read else where that Vailly recommends minimum servo requirements for his 90" 30lb FW190 at 60in/oz for ailerons and 120in/oz for rudder and elevator. From this I gather that 100in/oz for a 20lb Zero will be good for rudder and elevator and 60in/oz for ailerons.
Carl
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RE: Platt Zero
I have about 6 hours so far in the wing. The right side is framed and soon I will have the left side the same. I tried to make the LG mounts parrellel by clamping then glueing.
Carl
Carl
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RE: Platt Zero
I decided to reinforce the LG area just in case I have some rough landings. I use 6 ounce glass and epoxy in the area around the mount. This has cured and I have trimed and sanded flush to the ribs. I shaped the leading edge for the sheeting also. Tonight I finished the leading edge and started the wing control surfaces. I will build the flaps as per plans. The ailerons will have a core 1/64 ply and built up top and bottom sheeted with 1/16 balsa. I am going to use aluminum for hinges and Robart horns. Then figure out how to add ballast to the leading edge of the ailerons.
Carl
Carl
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RE: Platt Zero
Nice work and I'm saving the pics for my next years build.
I've gone to two elev servoes 60 to 70 oz on my warbirds, I just like that reducancy thing with two servoes on seperate channels mixed in., the TF P51 used two L shaped wire horns that stayed side the fuselage if you don't want pushords exiting the fuselage.
cheers - ken
I've gone to two elev servoes 60 to 70 oz on my warbirds, I just like that reducancy thing with two servoes on seperate channels mixed in., the TF P51 used two L shaped wire horns that stayed side the fuselage if you don't want pushords exiting the fuselage.
cheers - ken