shepp

Santa was real good to me this Christmas, He brought me a "Yellow Aircraft" AT-6, completely built. All I had to do was install the radio gear and retract operating assembly. ( I have a Super Wife). Specifications:
101 " wingspan
Engine: Fuji 64 cc. 7,000 rmp with a 20 x 10 Top flite prop. ( 1 hour break in time)
Thrust= 20 lbs as measured on my digital fish scale. ( figures about 60% thrust /weight
Balanced it weighs 35 lbs. ( had to add 3 lbs lead to firewall)
I aproximated the wing area at 1340 sq. in. this figures out to be nearly 60 oz/sq.ft.

Now the question, How do you guys think it will fly? I have never flown a model this heavy. I have several that go over 20 lbs but they load around 35 oz/sq.ft. I realize this is not a " floater" and I'm used to ,what my friends call, "Hot" landings. However I am concerned about trashing my wife's Christmas present on the first flight.
Let me hear from some of you that have experience with heavy Warbirds.
By the way, The model is finished in "Flite-Metal" with full markings and detailed cockpit. A real beautiful bird. did I mention I have a SUPER WIFE.

Thanks
Shepp

Baldeagle

My Feedback: (7)

I am in love allready , send her to Arizona. Just kidding.. Just keep the speed up on landing. Some heavy planes glide like a rock and others do fine. Slow it down at a high altitude and see what it does. I have the Midwest AT6 and it isn't bad at all. We fly at 6000 ft and hot landings are pretty common. I have problems when I go to the valley and fly. I have to make several landing approaches just to get it slow enough. Rich

SCALECRAFT

My Feedback: (13)

Texans a notorious for being tail heavy. make sure you have the proper CG. Other opinions you trust.

Avoid early lift off. There are countless stories of warbirds that take off and roll over and crash. Not enough airspeed and /or tail heavy. Its probably not like an over powered sport arf.

No airspeed, no controlled flight.

On landings, avoid hanging on the elevator in the up position. Its a combination of angle of decent and airspeed.

And most of all, if your tense, don't fly till you relax. Fly something else comprable to warm up and relax

Steve

rwright142

I'm in love too - NOT kidding! Send her to Indiana, heck I'll even come and get her... hahaha

I would also recommend you have someone with Warbird flying experience check it out real good first, and maybe even have them maiden her. I am in the process of researching a Corsair that I will build someday, and I have decided that I will hook up with a Warbird pro at AMA headquarters (I am only about 3 hrs away) and have them maiden her when it is time - just in case!

Best of luck to you and yes you do have a Super Wife...

jamesg25

hmmm...with a power to weight ratio of only 0.6:1 and having to add 3pbs to the firewall, why not invest in an engine that gives more power and is 3pbs heavier. I'm probably just a rare power monger/freak who is used to flying a 3D plane that has a power to weight ration of 2:1... but 0.6:1.....[sm=sleeping.gif][sm=frown.gif] thats got NO fun written all over it...
well good luck
regards
james

P-40 DRIVER

a 22/8 prop would put you in that 30# thrust range but with the wing loading your talking about, it may not get you enough speed for the plane to fly well. Hope your a real experienced pilot. I try not to get below .75 to 1.0 thrust ratio, All I can say is flaps, flaps, flaps. Thats like trying to fly a 12 pound plane on a .61 engine. Just a few thoughts that came into my head. Pictures?

Spychalla Aircraft

My Feedback: (34)

I've been flying 1/5th scale T-6's for over a decade. I've flown 4 different Airplanes and have over 400 logged flights, several major crashes that were my pilot error. They have a nasty tip stall at slow speeds, so you cannot pull positive incidence when you are slow. Most of this threads commentary is on landing, but most T-6 crashes are actually on take-off. Rudder control is poor at low speeds and inexperienced pilots will pull the plane off early when it gets squirrelly. It will roll on its back and smash in. I have seen it over a dozen times. You also have to learn to go around if you bounce on landing. A T-6 just won't settle down if you start bouncing on landing. It will just get worse.

The Yellow Kit flies better than the Byron. A good target weight for these planes is 29 lbs. 31 lbs. will fly OK. 35 lbs. is really heavy and I would recommend you lighten is up. I have flown one for a guy in Chicago that is 35 lbs. and it was scary. Not at all like flying mine at 29 lbs. Analyze that cockpit kit. If it is one of those heavy resin designs, pull it out! You could save a lb. Whatever you do, make sure you keep that lead on the nose and keep it balanced. If you pull the lead off it will kill you quicker than anything.

My recommendation to you is to take it down to the most experienced T-6 Pilot I know in your area. He is Doug Imes and he lives in Greer, SC. It is 5 hrs. from you. His home field it Triple Tree, the sight of the Joe Nall. Doug has over a decade of T-6 experience and he could safely give you stick time and pointers. You could fly in at Triple Tree and it would make a good weekend trip for you. Doug's e-mail address is [email protected]

Use the 22 X 10 prop. Here is my T-6 and a collection of planes at Warbirds Over Minnesota. Leo

shepp

I thought I might post a couple of photos of the AT-6

Yellowflier

Ah, one of my favorite color schemes !!!. Looks really good, but I also think it's a bit too heavy [&o]. Is there any place you can get some weight off of this bird?

David

shepp

David, I wish there was. I have looked pretty hard . The detailed cockpit is light weight plastic. In fact so light that the rear seat vibrated and broke. Look close at the photo. Servos are all mounted forward with fiberglass pushrods and pull pull on rudder and tailwheel. It does have the shock mounted tailwheel assembly, ( looks like Robarts) and I'm sure it adds weight at the worse possible place, but I hate to remove it. The 2 + pounds of lead on the firewall is absolutely necessary so I'm kind of stuck.
Our club field has a grass runway in excess of 600 feet long so that is where I will probalby maiden it. My personal field is only 350 ft long and while probably enough, I always want more :^) Most useless things in the world are;
Runway behind you
Altitude above you &
Fuel in someones else tank.

ww2birds

My Feedback: (14)

Shepp,

The weight is normal for one of the Yellow T-6 ARFs. I have two, one (the gray Night Train scheme) has hundreds of flights, and weighs out at 35# with 3# of noseweight just like yours. Even at 35#, there is no problem with relatively slow flight .. it's a big wing!

I agree with some of the other comments about marginal power. I started out with a 4.2 Brison on mine .. as you probably have seen, the T-6 needs a very short crankcase, there is not much room between the cowl face and the firewall. So engine choices are limited without doing surgery on the firewall.

I used a 22x10 Menz on the Brison. It flew "ok" .. certainly no issue with normal takeoff, could loop from level flight (barely). But it just wasn't "fun" .. so I took of the Brison, and put on a J+A Husky 5.7. Currently spinning a 24x14 Menz Ultra .. now we're talking! And, I didn't even remove all the noseweight to keep at the recommended CG.

As you often see on the forum, if you have to carry noseweight, have it do something useful!

I know a lot of guys who fly these in the 29-31# range with G-62s and they fly "ok" .. as you have heard from others, just make sure you let it make a nice long takeoff run and don't haul it off the ground .. let it fly when it's ready and you should be fine.

There is a nice video of mine flying from the Warbirds over Delaware DVD from 2004 if you or anyone near you has a copy.

A few cautions for you:

1) some early Yellow ARFs had knockoffs of the Robart hingepoints made of white plastic. Mine did. They will eventually break at the hinge joint, especially on the ailerons. They will start at the most outward hinge, so you can catch it before a catastrophic failure. Annoying but simple to replace them with real Robarts. You probably don't have this problem, but check .. and if you do, go ahead and fly .. just keep any eye on it.

2) Take special care when trial fitting the stab on the ARF .. you'll probably have to open up the saddle a little and if you're not careful you'll mess up the paint job on the stab. Don't ask me how I know this :-)

3) Landings on the T-6 are a bear for most people, including me, until you get the hang of it .. then you'll wonder what the big deal ever was... it lands "like a big trainer" (how many times have you heard that!!!) once you know the secret. And, what is the secret??? The instant the mains touch down GET OFF THE ELEVATOR!. IF you hang on to up elevator as most of us instinctively do, it will go bouncing down the runway like a kangaroo if you are not dead-on the stall speed .. and that's hard to do w/o tip stalling. So, fly it onto the ground, and GET OFF THE ELEVATOR (got it???).

4) Watch out, this plane is addictive .. it flys really well .. and the Yellow ARFs are addictive too .. some of the best value for the dollar I have ever seen if you want a really high quality hand built aircraft .. it is really an injustice to call them ARFs since it makes you think of the usual cheesy plastic covered cartoon plane...

Feel free to PM if I can help in any way.

But just to reiterate, my main concern is not the weight .. the airframe and wing can carry it no problem .. it's the marginal power .. if you do fly w/the Fuji, I am sure it will be ok as long as you are careful to keep it flying on the wing, and not depend on the motor to haul it out of trouble.

Dave

samparfitt

My Feedback: (43)

I had a Ziroli AT-6 (101 inch also) with a 3W-75.
I loved how she flew.
With the narrow footprint, I had to initially give up elevator until the rudder was effective.
I then put the rudder to neutral until she got to flying speed.
Landings were always easy: It had full flaps (center too).
Lost her last Spring (wing folded): I've always had trouble flying when that happens!

CarverTripp

What a beautiful A-6! And that field, [X(] WOW Where is it?
There is nothing here in So. Cal. that's that nice that I'm aware of.

samparfitt

My Feedback: (43)

thanks.
It's Cincinnati, Ohio.
Actually, the first picture is at one of the clubs (MVRCC) I belong too (see new pic).
The right two pictures are at the other club (GCRCC).
Lots of farm land around here.
During the summer, it probably rains about every 4th day so everything stays pretty green.
There are farms around both fields.
The farmers rotate crops between soy beans, wheat and corn.
Corn at the end of summer: you don't want to go down in that: at 8' high, you can easily not know where you are.
Wheat and beans act like a mattress so planes going in on dead stick survive pretty good(just put those retracts up!).
Though, it's amazing how you can take a long time finding a large plane in wheat and soy beans!

samparfitt

My Feedback: (43)

Here's a couple more pics.
The second pic has the Miller Brewing plant in the background: all those large silos are full of beer (no strafing those!).
One of the nicest things living here is being 40 minutes from one of the greatest warbird collections in the world (Wright Pat).

CarverTripp

That's beautiful country.
Ever since I've become an RC enthusiast, Ive wanted to move to Ohio!
Thanks for sharing. I think your right about the corn; that'll shear off a wing in nothing flat!
Carver

shepp

Dave,
Thanks, for the information.
I am able to generate 27 lbs thrust with the fuji 64cc using a 22x8 zinger prop. I believe this will provide enough thrust given enough runway.
I also am very familiar with your landing technique. A real learning experience was my first few landings in a full scale pitts. I flew a S1S for several years and they will " crow hop" in a heart beat. The only solution once it started was a go around. The problem is in your decent rate. If the aircraft is still decending when you touch ground, the mains stop the decent of the nose of the aircraft but the tail continues to decend, attitude changes and you are flying again then the vicious cycle continues .
My good friend and aerobatic instructor forced me to land on the tailwheel first and let the mains hit when speed decreased. However I don't think this will work on the AT-6 . I figured I would have to fly the AT-6 right to the ground ,land on the mains at "zero" decent rate. No three point landings, at least to start. In any event, I'm looking forward to the first flight. We need some decent weather here in Tennessee. We had a very warm January and I flew nearly every week. Feb is starting out like normal, cold, wet, and windy.

Sam,
I also love your flying field. The AT-6 looks great against that background.

ww2birds

My Feedback: (14)

Shepp, thanks for the reply. I have flown a fullscale T-6 in Kissimmee, and I asked them their preference .. they fly it onto the mains, saying that a full-stall 3-pointer is risdky since there is so little rudder authority at touchdown. Apparently a lot of ground loops happend with that technique.

Your explanation of the landing technique sounds right on .. I am also please to know the official name of the result a "crow hop" ...

I'll include a picture Ben Lanterman took of my T-6 a few years ago at Joe Nall.

Dave

mikmarsh

My Feedback: (31)

Another yellow T-6 34Lbs., flys great! Powered by a G-62, 22-10 bolly prop. Your all right on

the landings, let the mains touch /get off the elv.

Spychalla Aircraft

My Feedback: (34)

Amen about the landing technique! That is exactly what I do. It is scary to let go of the flare at first, but once you learn that it isn't going to flip on it's nose you get used to it. I actually go as far as to let go of the right stick completely. You just then concentrate on that rudder to keep it straight on the roll out. The explanation given to me for why the AT-6 bounds is that the gear are so far ahead of the CG that when they hit it provides an upward pitching moment that increases the wing incidence and you are flying again. Releasing the elevator counter acts the upward pitching moment and it will stick to the field. It goes against any instinct you have learned when flying other planes, but it sure does work for the T-6.

Leo

Old Shep

Not to add confusion here...the comments about wheel landing the big Ziroli and Byron's T-6 models are probably right on, but in the real T-6, ground loops are much more apt to happen during wheel landings. The tail will have to come down at some point, and there is a moment when the rudder is blanked out by wing wash which means a swerve can begin and, since one wheel lands with more airspeed, the swerve happens faster, brakes won't help and around you go...Always helps to have the tailwheel on the ground at minimal speed as soon as possible. A full stall three point landing accomplishes that. The full-sized T-6 will do both landings very well, with a smoothly executed three point landing requiring more proficiency and currency. With the price of avgas, most guys don't fly theirs often enough to feel real comfortable with the full-stall three and so opt for the wheel landing. After 500 plus hours in the airplane I've decided that there is no "best" technique to fit all circumstances, but I will three point it more often than not.
Old Shep

shepp

Well, Guys, its been while but I finally got to fly the heavy AT-6. Take off weight 37 lbs, Fuji 64 turning a zinger 22x8 at 7000 rpm. Used about 10 degrees flaps for takeoff. Absolutely no problem. I let it run on the mains probably 200 feet and gently lifted off. Piece of cake. It flys really fast but slows down nicely with full flaps 50 degrees. I programed in about 1/8 inch down elevator with full flaps and that resolved any ballooning upon application of flaps. Landed on mains with no bouncing and let her roll out. Great first flight. The Fuji 64 handles the weight fine, and accellerates quickly. Just wanted to let you guys know that 55 oz /sq.ft. on the size ship is no problem.

Shepp